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Dad's 38 S. & W. SPECIAL CTG (ID Help)

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WTSReal

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Jan 1, 2011
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I recently found my 84 years young Dad's 38 S. & W. SPECIAL CTG while cleaning out his closet. I know nothing about the history of this gun, except what I have read on your informative site. I have included a few pictures to help with IDing the gun and perhaps some history on it. I do plan to fill out the form to have S & W ID it for me too. My Dad served in the Army in 1945 and I thought it might be a weapon that he was issued, or purchased after the war, but I do not know for sure. Unfortunately my Dad suffered a stroke 4 years ago and has no recollection about the Gun.. any help will be appreciated.

The numbers : S 978924 appear on the butt of the square handle, the inside of the grips (Walnut and Checkered), the back rim of the 6 shot cylinder. (note, there is quite a bit of space between the letter "S" and the first number of the serial number.)

Last Patent Date is Dec 29 14

Barrel Length is 4"

Blued Finish

S&W Logos on handles are Silver Finish

Screw at the Front of the Trigger Guard

I included photos that show the front sight and hammer (which is notched)

Thanks in advance for any reply and help. Bill
 

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Doubt it was military, too good to have ever been issued.
CTG is abbreviation for cartridge.
Denis
 
Wasn't the S serial prefix the Military and Police that came out in 1946, to differentiate from the Victory models? Nice wheelgun, sir, very nice.
 
thats my guess also but my book is somewhere other than where I am at tonight. with no rear sight you are most likely close to that answer. grips and the look to the pistol along with that serial number it sounds about like a post ww2 pistol like the M&P. with it being a 6 shot so it kinda looks like a early pre model 10 but most likely a m&p.
 
WTSReal:
According to the Standard Catalogue of Smith & Wesson, that is in deed a pre-model 10.
By pre-model 10, what I mean is, it was made before S&W went to the model numbers in 1957.

The date is on yours is 1953-1954.


Opppssss I was wrong about the date. it IS 1945-1948. Sorry for the confusion :(
 
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Your dad’s gun is a .38 Hand Ejector Military and Police Model (later designated the Model 10) and Armoredman is correct, it was made between 1945 and 1948. The “S” in S&W serial numbers was first used during WW II starting in Dec. 1944 when a new “safety” hammer block was introduced to prevent a dropped gun from firing. The “S” was added to the Victory model .38 M & P serial numbers and appeared as the prefix “SV” or “VS” and was used until the end of the war.

When the war ended the “V” was dropped at serial number VS 811,119 and the numbering continued with only the “S” prefix from serial number S 811,120 to serial number S 999,999. At that time, 1948, a new serial number series started at C 1 and continued for the next one million guns.

You gun appears to be in very good condition. Take good care of it and enjoy owning a classic S & W.

Happy New Year!
 
That is a pretty nice example of a post-war S&W M&P.

Unless there are obvious mechanical problems it should be safe to shoot with any current commercial .38 Special standard pressure ammunition.

If the gun does have any mechanical problems a likely culprit is the build of of old lube. After 50 years old grease does dry out and can cause the action to seem "sticky" which can present as a variety of problems.

If that does happen take it to a good gunsmith familiar with S&W revolvers and have them carefully remove the sideplat, clean out the old lubrication, and relubricate as needed. That's a fairly straightforward procedure, but don't try it yourself unless you are familiar with the inner workings of S&W's. You can easily damage the sideplate if you remove it improperly, for instance.

Other than that, keep it clean, keep the exterior lightly oiled, wipe it down to remove any corrosive fingerprints, and it should last for your kids.
 
Gentlemen, Thank you so much for the quick response and information on my Dad's 38 S&W. Yes, it is in excellent condition, since it has been kept inside a cloth cotton bag, cleaned, oiled, while in a leather holster (pictures really don't reflect the condition)...my Dad is a bit of an overkill preventive maintenance guru (no pun intended). I have not shot this gun and do not know when and if it has been shot, but I assume so...I will post back when I receive the info from S. and W. to let you guys know for sure your thoughts....it also has an L.C. Smith Shotgun, but that's another post! Bill
 
Excellent gun and fairly old. It's not a rare gun as these were used by many PD's back in the time. What probably makes it rare is that it looks to have seen very little use.

You can tell it's old by looking at the grips. S&W did away with those grips in the 50's if I remember.

What ArkieVol told you is correct.
 
Excellent gun and fairly old. It's not a rare gun as these were used by many PD's back in the time. What probably makes it rare is that it looks to have seen very little use.

I beg to differ, and the devil is in the details. It’s important because it can affect the value.

World War Two ended on September 2, 1945 when a Japanese delegation singed a formal surrender document. Smith & Wesson had suspended production of the military version of they’re pre-war .38 Military & Police (1905 Hand Ejector, 4th Chg.) revolver on August 26, 1945 in anticipation of the forthcoming end of the war. As the Victory Model passed into history they moved into a new factory in Springfield, MA. And looked forward to resuming commercial production, as the pent-up demand far exceeded their ability to meet it in the short term.

Production of new law enforcement/civilian Military & Police revolvers began on September 12, 1945 using a new “S” letter pre-fix in the serial number to denote the addition of a new hammer block that made it safe to carry the revolver with all six chambers loaded. The number itself (811,120) started where the Victory Model (SV 811,119) had left off.

The first revolvers were made using parts left over from previous pre-war and wartime production (mostly the latter), but besides the hammer block safety and polished blue or nickel plated finish, the most obvious change was new “maga” style checkered walnut stocks that had a horn-shape at the top that better supported the web of the hand and distributed the recoil. These stocks had been designed before the war, but hardly introduced before they were discontinued as wartime production took over.

Also before the war, S&W had designed a new, substantially different action that made it possible to cock the hammer while rotating it over a shorter radius. This appealed to those shooters who would habitually cock the hammer with their thumb, rather then fire by simply pulling the trigger in the double-action mode. However there is no such thing as a free lunch, and in this case the double-action trigger pull was slightly degraded over that of the previous system, which was now called the “long action” while the new one was designated to be the “short action”.

Again, the newer short-action was hardly introduced in other models, when it was dropped by the onset of the war. Following the war the company planned to introduce it across their entire product line, but for the time being continued to make the .38 Military and Police revolver (called “pre-model 10” by collectors) using the older long-action. Those .38 M&P revolvers that were made using surplus wartime and pre-war parts were called “transitional” models.

Because these revolvers had what some claim to be the best double-action trigger pull ever offered in a production revolvers, along with a hammer block which made them safe to carry fully loaded, and incorporated none of the cost-cutting changes that would come about in the future; these revolvers became popular with both knowledgeable shooters and collectors as time went by.

Within the commercial K-frame product line, the above features were only available on transitional M&P revolvers, and production was limited to parts-on-hand.

The revolver that is the subject of this thread is an excellent example of a late production transitional .38 Military & Police model. Given what it is, and the almost-like-new condition it is in, I would estimate the value to be in the $600 range, and going up.

Because most of the long-action/transitional revolvers were sold to the law-enforcement market, and then used to the point of destruction, an example in the condition this one is in should indeed be considered to be scarce to rare.
 
WOW, I will treasure this piece of my Dad's history. Old Fuff, Thank you so much for your insight. I had read your comments on other threads and I had hoped you would comment about this revolver. Do you know what month/year it was likely manufactured in? Also, can anyone offer a comment about the "Best" way to "Clean and Preserve" it? Oil to use, etc.? Again, thanks in advance for any help and advice. Bill
 
Yes, it is a "transitional" Military & Police made right after the war. The transitional guns have features found on the pre-war models as S&W was using up old parts in inventory. In 1948 the new, redesigned version came out and they bore a letter C serial prefix. The S prefix on the K frame was only used 1946-1948.

I would agree with not particularly rare comment. They made a couple hundred thousand of them and really nice ones can be found.
 
Not all of the M&P revolvers made during the "S" series serial number range had long-action style lockwork. The short action ones were introduced on February 11, 1948 at serial number S 990,184, and thereafter the company continued to make occasional runs of the older long-action guns until the remaining parts were gone.

"S" serial numbered guns ended at #S 999,999 in March, 1948 and continued on with the "C" series, starting at C 1. So far there are no known C- serialed revolvers that have the long-action. Thus in March 1948, if not before, the transitionals passed into history.

The only way to know for sure when the subject revolver was made and shipped (and shipping dates are sometimes later then expected) is to have the gun lettered. See details below. My personal guess would be Winter 1947/Spring, 1948.

Information concerning historical letters of authentication from Smith & Wesson’s historian, Roy G. Jinks can be obtained from the link listed below.

In exchange for a $50.00 research fee (make any check out to Smith & Wesson, not Mr. Jinks) he will search through the company’s original records until he finds your particular revolver. He will then send you an official letter which usually includes:

A short history of the revolver model’s background.

What the barrel length, caliber/cartridge, finish and stocks were, as well as the exact date it was shipped from the factory – and to what distributor, dealer or individual – as whatever the case may be.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...catalogId=10001&content=25301&sectionId=10504
 
Dang it old fluff, now everyone knows! I guess the days of finding these old "S" gals for $150 is long gone.

Well fortunately not everyone comes to The High Road... :evil:

And even better, in general older .38 Special revolvers with long five and six inch barrels are out of favor with today's buyers that lust for high-cap magazines and pistols that have polymer frames. :uhoh:

And a lot of pawn shop owners, retail gunshops and gun show dealers price run-of-the-mill used revolvers on the basis of what they bought or traded for them...

Also no one - absolutely no one - ever does any homework...

So there is still hope.... :evil: :D
 
So that I understand then, because the Serial Number of Dad's revolver is S 978924, which is before production of the first "Short-Action" Trigger of "February 11, 1948 at serial number S 990,184", this should be a "transitional" M&P with a "Long-Action" Trigger....Correct? How many units did the company make per month during that Post War time period? Bill
 
Your dad's revolver is unquestionably a transitional long-action, because the later short-action revolvers had a slightly different shape to the hammer. Your photographs provide the necessary clues to make a positive identification.

How many units did the company make per month during that Post War time period?

The only one that could answer that is Smith & Wesson company historian, Roy Jinks - because he has access to the company's original shipping records.

But it was a whole lot... Between Feb. 11, 1948 when the short-action was introduced at serial # S 990,184 and the end of "S" serial numbered guns in March of the same year at #S 999,999 they apparently made 9,185 M&P revolvers in a mix of both long and short actions. Also by 1948 they were making a wide range of other models.

But keep in mind that during this period (1945-1948) a substantial percentage of the company's production was being targeted toward the law enforcement market, and relatively few of these ended up in like-new condition. Then in addition S&W was filling export orders at a time when many of the former European manufacturers had not revovered from the damage caused by the war.

In other words, sometimes the survival rate is more important then production numbers.
 
Old Fuff, I totally understand and that makes sense!...I will be sending away the info to Roy Jinks and post his info on the revolver when he sends it...Again, Thank you so much to You and Everyone that contributed to this Thread. Bill
 
Guys, Please find attached the Letter that I received from Roy Jinks with S & W. He indicated the gun was shipped on March 13, 1948. Thanks again for all of your help.
 

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Yeah, good to read about the find and the history. I own a few old Smiths too. None as nice as your Dads. Enjoy it - great family heir loom. Keep it safe and dry for your grandkids :)
 
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