dangerous dogs

[Geister]

There's a lot of media hype surrounding the pit bull breeds. We quite often see reporters call an SKS an assault rifle, newspapers showing pictures of an AR-15 and calling it an AK-47, etc. Do you really think these guys are properly identifying the breeds in their reports or just picking the latest breed with a bad rap?

I wasn't basing my opinion on what the media says but on my experiences with people I know who have owned pit bulls. My opinion still stands, I don't like pit bulls.

You can't compare an assault weapon to a pit pull because an assault weapon is not going to shoot itself for no reason. Pit bulls are aggressive and are bred to attack on their own.

I'm a dog lover like most folks, but I fail to understand how you can casually describe a dog chasing a little girl, and then say the response is "low".

You haven't owned a black lab before, have you? They are children friendly animals.

I didn't say that the black lab was running after her, with fangs open wide ready to attack. What I said was the dog was running after her, just like what my beagle does when I'm an ATV riding on my property.

There's no excuse to kill a dog, especially a lab, for no reason. The low life just wanted an excuse to use his gun.

 

[sadhvacman]

I'm on both sides here. I have a big 90lb german shepherd and a mini dachsund. When outside the dachsund will bark and run at people passing by. She has no intention of even getting close enough to bite. But often the people stop walking and are actually scared that she is going to attack them. My shepherd is fenced in and although she is a big baby, people are very intimidated by her. I could never allow her to run free. There is too much at stake with a dog that size. But the biggest reason is simply that my neighbors shouldn't be worried or in fear when walking in their own neighborhood.

I think the best thing to carry when walking or running is a big stick. a two foot section of a shovel handle is perfect.

Oh and I love dobies they get a bad rap.

 

[crowbardog]

SaintofKillers,

I think you responded reasonably enough. I say reasonably enough because there isn't much time for reason in the situation that you were involved. But the gun didn't get fired and the dog didn't perform a taste test on you. Myself, I always just try to act bigger than the dog, which at 5'9" and 160lbs., isn't always the easiest thing to do.

Geister,

With all due respect, you sound like a liberal. I think that you might agree, if you'd stop to think about what you said.

"I don't quite understand why people own pit bulls. To me, it's like owning a gun that might go off on you without you pulling the trigger."

You, my good sir, are misinformed, as are so many liberals on the topic of why people would want to own certain types of guns. The difference here is that to you the black rifle is a pit bull and the hunting side-by-side is the lab. But I don't blame you, since we're all susceptible to misinformation.



Here's my ferocious pit bull, Crowbar. He heard a bumb in the night and couldn't find his robe! I had to custom order the tighty white-ies with a tail hole

Michael Miller a.k.a. Crowbardog

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i have several large dogs and one is a chicken killer. if she was out and menaced someone or livestock i expect she gets shot. sad but its my failing if she gets out

 

[Chui]

Actually, Pit Bulls are LESS prone to bite you than just about ALL breeds of dogs. They were bred that way kinda by default. If a dog showed human aggression it was culled for two reasons: (a) he/she was considered not game (which I believe to be true as well) (b) the breed is too formidable to be a 'man fighter' - especially in a close quarter situation such as in a dog fight where both handlers and a referee are in the dog pit. Therefore, many gamebred Pit Bulls are a bit 'man shy' (meaning they'll not respond if you were to be a bit dominant with them. Of course, you may not know when to quit and if that's the case you may get "checked" or bitten, but it's rare that a gamebred dog will attack a human.

While many Pit Bulls today are not of gamebred stock the dogs are still not 'man fighters' in the sense of a Bouvier, Shepherd, Akita or Rottie. If the Pit Bull is significantly less likely to bite he is significantly more deadly if he does.

I think they make up less than 1% of all authenticated dog bites yet they make up something like 75% of human kills: a testament to the tenacity they still possess.

But are they "more dangerous" than, say, German Shepherds? I'd say no since they're less likely to bite a human in the first place. They almost invariably have a "play"-oriented personality with humans. This is especially true amongst the working strain (i.e., gamebred or dog's from fighting dog strains) Pit Bulls. Oh, he (and she) will tend to destroy anay dog you place in front of it, but once he's done he's the happy-go-lucky, impish pet that he was before the rough and tumble.

In summary, I'd not seriously compare a dog to any inanimate machine in an absolute sense as a dog can respond to his environment whereas an inanimate machine cannot. However, we have a case of the wrong people (inexperienced dog handlers usually) purchasing the wrong dogs (Molossids/Mastiffs/Bulldogs) for the wrong reasons (image or personal protection work). Can I blame the dog? Hell no.

 

[Chui]

Originally posted by eliphalet:
"Guns are for life threating situations not dog bites."

I'll have to politely disagree with you here. A 60 lb. dog can cripple you fairly quickly. Ever seen a Dutch Shepherd or Belgian Malinois at work? And there is no way in Hades you'd know the dog was TRULY committed until he's shaking the **** out of you.

To paraphrase the late Nathan Bedford Forest, "there aint a man alive who'll kill me and live." Well, there aint a dog alive that will attack me (unless I'm fvckin' with it which I'd NEVER do) and live. I'll shoot the bustard and won't think twice.

He runs up to me snarling I draw and the safety is off. He lunges after that and he gets put down. I don't need - much less want - to be a chew toy for some jackarse's (usually) unmanageable dog. Just like the Pit Bulls that I so love I may not start that fight but I'll sure as Hell finish it.

 

[Chui]

atomd, most dog bites are probably "provoked" due to human ignorance of dog behavior.

How so?

Don't just walk into people's yards. A dog will view you as a trespasser.

Don't reach out to strange dogs. I wouldn't strangers touching me if they weren't invited to and neither do dogs.

If you do decide to pet a dog don't pat it on top of the head they tend to view that as you trying to dominate it.

Never run from a dog. They are programmed to give chase.

Never roughhouse in front of a dog as the dog is loyal to his owner and will at least snarl at the other person. He may "check" you (i.e., grab you and snarl without breaking skin) or he may bite you.

Be careful walking around someone else's dog. Never step over them (dominance thing again) and leave their toys alone. They are protective of their things.

Don't blow in their faces. Some like it; some don't. If it's not your dog it's foolish.

I know all of this (and there is more), but many people are oblivious and therefore get snapped at, checked and bitten.

All out attacks are rare and usually they are on small people (i.e., kids). It's a dominance thing and the kids may very well have violated some rules that they obviously didn't know which is why kids should not be with dogs unsupervised - especially around someone else's dog.

 

[ojibweindian]

"I can stand 1 inch from your face and scream that I want you dead but until I actually take action to make it so, you cannot use deadly force to stop my behaivor and expect to sail through a review by the DA."

Deavis said "Yes, it might be menacing, which is punishable by a Class B misdemeanor, but are you allowed to use deadly force when menaced? If you can't, then who cares?"

Alabama Law states:

Section 13A-3-23
Use of force in defense of a person.
(a) A person is justified in using physical force upon another person in order to defend himself or herself or a third person from what he or she reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by that other person, and he or she may use a degree of force which he or she reasonably believes to be necessary for the purpose. A person may use deadly physical force, and is legally presumed to be justified in using deadly physical force in self-defense or the defense of another person pursuant to subdivision (4), if the person reasonably believes that another person is:

(1) Using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force.

So, hypothetically, if you were an inch from my face, and were beligerently screaming that you were going to kill me, I certainly would have a legally defensable position to shoot you.

If you've that kind of temper, best not live in Alabama

 

[Sage of Seattle]

Chui, thank you for your information regarding dogs. I have never owned them and when young, was very frightened of them. Nowadays, geese are apparently my only nemeses. I have a few questions, however:

Don't just walk into people's yards. A dog will view you as a trespasser.

Sometimes it's unavoidable or a dog will view part of the street as their territory. Then what?

Don't reach out to strange dogs.

I've always reached out and offered my hand for the dog to sniff me. I hold it out there and let the dog bring it's nose to me. Is that okay or could it be construed as some form of aggression?

If you do decide to pet a dog don't pat it on top of the head they tend to view that as you trying to dominate it.

I thought that was the whole point of things however -- to show the dog who is boss. I understood that you dominate the dog and it won't be aggressive towards you. Please clarify.

Never run from a dog. They are programmed to give chase.

Got it.

Never roughhouse in front of a dog as the dog is loyal to his owner and will at least snarl at the other person. He may "check" you (i.e., grab you and snarl without breaking skin) or he may bite you.

Good point.

All out attacks are rare and usually they are on small people (i.e., kids). It's a dominance thing and the kids may very well have violated some rules that they obviously didn't know which is why kids should not be with dogs unsupervised - especially around someone else's dog.

Another good point.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Geister]

crowbardog,

The idea that you would even compare pit bulls to firearms is ridiculous to put it nicely.

With all due respect, you sound like a liberal. I think that you might agree, if you'd stop to think about what you said.

What does politics have to do with this? You do understand that there's a lot more to the politican spectrum, right? There's more than just "liberal" and "conservative."

We're talking about breeds of dogs, not the federal budget or medicare.

I DON'T LIKE PIT BULLS. That is a personal preference. I wouldn't want a pet that could possibly bite me for no reason or run off and attack the neighbor's little girl down the street.

It's a liability I do not want.

Sorry guy, but there is little respect coming from you.

What I was trying to do is give my own personal opinion based on experiences I've had with pit bulls. I understand that others do not share my opinion but that doesn't mean that I cannot express my opinion.

You, my good sir, are misinformed, as are so many liberals on the topic of why people would want to own certain types of guns.

What in the world do dogs and guns have in common?

Dogs are animate, live animals.

Guns are inanimate objects.

A pit bull will attack on its own.

A gun will NOT shoot on its own unless you pull the trigger.

I worry about being attacked and I have to watch my back when I'm around a pit bull.

I do NOT worry about an AR-15 magically floating into the air, pointing itself at me, and then pulling the trigger on my own.

Pit bulls are the only dogs I will consider (if they are acting aggressive) shooting on sight. More than likely I'd just shoot in its general direction to chase it off.

I would not consider shooting a gun on sight. In fact, if a gun magically appeared on my place I'd probably happily add it to my collection.

To even try and compare my dislike for pitbulls to the gun issue is really stretching it. In fact, I consider it a personal insult to say that I sound like a liberal.

If you are a pit bull owner, you honestly haven't done a very good job of defending pit bulls. In fact, you just made me despise pit bulls even more.

The difference here is that to you the black rifle is a pit bull and the hunting side-by-side is the lab.

You try to say I sound like a liberal and then you compare apples to oranges...

I don't know about you, but I wasn't aware that black rifles are more susceptible than side-by-sides to pointing and shooting ON THEIR OWN without input from their owner.

So I don't like a particular breed of dog because they were primarily bred to fight. What's next, are you going to say I sound like a liberal because I prefer revolvers to a tactical autoloader?

You can't compare live animals to inanimate pieces of steel.

But I don't blame you, since we're all susceptible to misinformation.

So you're going to tell me that I'm misinformed because I try to avoid pit bulls as much as possible due to my own personal experiences, just because you happen to like pit bulls?

Actually, Pit Bulls are LESS prone to bite you than just about ALL breeds of dogs.

Read the police reports on pit bull attacks compared to attacks by other breeds of dogs. They will disagree with you.

Therefore, many gamebred Pit Bulls are a bit 'man shy'

I wouldn't shoot one on sight, but if it's on my property it better high tail it off of my property. If it's gets aggressive with me it's getting shot.

Point is, I don't trust a pit bull to be man shy. If my health is on the line I'm not going to blow it off by thinking, "oh, that pit bull is probably man shy." You can say the same thing about mountain lions but if that mountain lion knowingly comes within 50 yards of me and doesn't turn around when he sees me, I'm going to get ready to shoot it.

But are they "more dangerous" than, say, German Shepherds? I'd say no since they're less likely to bite a human in the first place.

I don't really like German shepards either but I don't despise them as much as pit bulls. Frankly, too many pit bull owners buy them to train them to be aggressive and nasty. German shepards have an aggressive streak too but they are more into what I would call a "mainstream" dog.

I don't have a problem if someone owns a pit bull, but I do have a problem if that person can't keep that dog controlled. A friend of mine had a pit bull that hung himself and I almost bought him another one, but someone else already gave him one. But still, I don't see any reason to have that much liability with a pet.

 

[joab]

If "Anyone" ever shot my dog, they'd never shoot anything again.

I own an 80lb pit that I know will not bite unless provoked, but I do not place the burden of that knowledge on anyone else
If he is off property and gives what looks like a reasonable impression of an attack and gets shot, that's my fault not the shooters.

There's more than just "liberal" and "conservative."

And there is more to the liberal mentality than political pigeon holing

I DON'T LIKE PIT BULLS. That is a personal preference. I wouldn't want a pet that could possibly bite me for no reason or run off and attack the neighbor's little girl down the street.

How do you feel about Dobermans, Rotts, Ridgebacks,or German Shepards.
They have had the same reputation at one time or another

A pit bull will attack on its own.

Any improperly trained dog will

Read the police reports on pit bull attacks compared to attacks by other breeds of dogs. They will disagree with you.

I've read them. Have you read what constitues a designation of PitBull, a breed which actually has no clear definition even with the recognized dog organizations?
Any large heavily muscled large headed dog can be considered a PIt.
Kinda like anybody under the age of 25 can be considered a child by those spouting gun related deaths of children

I don't have a problem if someone owns a pit bull, but I do have a problem if that person can't keep that dog controlled.

Agreed but that goes for any pet

A friend of mine had a pit bull that hung himself and I almost bought him another one, but someone else already gave him one.

Why would you buy the guy another dog if he already proved that he was incapable of treating the first one properly. The only way a dog can hang itself is if it is left on a chain unsupervised. That is recognized as one of the things that turns good dogs bad

But still, I don't see any reason to have that much liability with a pet.

Again that goes for any dog.
A friend was sued for $30,000 because his Blue Heeler ran at a woman who was too close to his property
The dog never left his fenced in property or touched the woman but she fell and hurt herself when she panicked and ran, because she thought it was a pit

Pit hysteria runs deep in our media educated society

 

[joab]

Sometimes it's unavoidable or a dog will view part of the street as their territory. Then what?

Trespassing is always avoidable but if the dog takes part of the street as his territory he will act accordingly so should you.
Either back away or engage him whichever seems to be the correct and safest course of action at the time

I've always reached out and offered my hand for the dog to sniff me. I hold it out there and let the dog bring it's nose to me. Is that okay or could it be construed as some form of aggression?

I never lift my hand above the height of the dogs head if possible, never show the font of my hand
I move my hand slightly away from my body and give a little click click sound while maintaining eye contact
The dog will usually give a tell as to what his intentions are
If he doesn't want to be petted he will usually huff and bark but keep his distance
But regardless I maintain eye contact, I am the dominant party

I understood that you dominate the dog and it won't be aggressive towards you. Please clarify.

Doesn't work with a dominant dog, if you are close enough to pet he is close enough to bite a pat on the head may trigger a fear bite

 

[Geister]

I agree with you for the most part, joab. You're right, I shouldn't be "pigeon holed" with a political label due to my opinion on pit bulls.

I don't particular care for Dobermans, Rotts, or German Shepards either but I still like them better than pit bulls.

The real problem with pit bulls is that there are too many low lives who own pit bulls. I'm not talking about anyone on here but some low lives in one of the towns I used to live in. They get these pit bulls, train then aggressively, and then aren't responsible enough to keep the dog controlled and then all heck breaks loose. THAT'S where part of the bad reputation with pit bulls comes in.

Any improperly trained dog will

Exactly my point. Too many people get a pit bull but don't have the ability or desire to train them correctly.

So, no, I wouldn't want to own any of those breeds of dogs.

Why would you buy the guy another dog if he already proved that he was incapable of treating the first one properly.

I never said that he was incapable of treating the first one properly. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't jump to conclusions.

The dog was on a leach in the yard (I think while they were in the process of fence repairs), tried to jump over the fence or something, and got caught and hung itself. Just a freak accident.

The only way a dog can hang itself is if it is left on a chain unsupervised.

Some people have to go to work during the day, and sometimes that's the best you can do. To me, it's better that the dog hung himself than to run off and start trouble somewhere.

I've read them. Have you read what constitues a designation of PitBull, a breed which actually has no clear definition even with the recognized dog organizations?

But we can all agree on the general idea of what a pit bull looks like. Doesn't matter what the dog organization definition is. Just like the government and pornography. They can't really define it but they know what it is when they see it.

Again that goes for any dog.

No it doesn't. You can't tell me that I have to worry about my beagle running off and biting the girl next door. That's something I would worry about with a pit bull or any other aggressive dog but not a beagle.

You are trying to tell me that pit bulls and other breeds of like dogs such as rotts and dobermans are like every other dog and that's simply not true.

Doesn't work with a dominant dog

Dominant dogs have no place in human society. People should ALWAYS be considered dominant.

 

[Chui]

Dog Behavior

Chui, thank you for your information regarding dogs. I have never owned them and when young, was very frightened of them. Nowadays, geese are apparently my only nemeses. I have a few questions, however:



Sometimes it's unavoidable or a dog will view part of the street as their territory. Then what?

If a dog considers the street or sidewalk as it's property you'll have to deal with that unfortunate "reality". Do NOT run as he will give chase and if it bites you in the posterier or hamstring you're not able to easily get it off of you. Some say that you should be calm others say bluff the animal by speaking in loud deep voice to stop or sit or something. I ALWAYS have a combat blade on me so if it came down to it I could (at least hope) to punish it if it did decide to attack. Personally, if a dog charges me and I'm armed with a pistol I draw. If it comes within x amount of feet (depending on whether it's slowing down or not) it gets shot.

I've always reached out and offered my hand for the dog to sniff me. I hold it out there and let the dog bring it's nose to me. Is that okay or could it be construed as some form of aggression?

I *NEVER* reach out my hand unless I see unmistakable 'play behavior' from the dog - especially if it's a mature animal (an immature animal is less likely to try to dominate you). The 'play behavior' is raising his head (exposing it's throat), bowing his back and wagging it's tail (which will be less than level with his back).

If the dog cowers there is no way in Hell I'd put my hand anywhere near it - it could be a 'fear biter'. Yes, it'll probably be a "check" but I guarantee you that you'll worsen things by jerking your hand back with appropriate damage to your tendons and perhaps bones.

If the dog is unresponsive to your whistles, etc. (it's simply looking at you) let it be. It does not - for whatever reasons - want to deal with you at that moment.

Usually, I let them approach me and sniff. If they wish to be playful they willwag their tail, hunch their back and push your hand with their muzzles signifying, "hey, pet me!"

I thought that was the whole point of things however -- to show the dog who is boss. I understood that you dominate the dog and it won't be aggressive towards you. Please clarify.

If it's not your dog (which means you are NOT necessarily assumed to be Alpha or "top dog") you should NEVER assume that you are accepted as being dominant. You could be severely bitten for this as he's fighting for position in this "extended pack". YOU are the newcomer.

Some dogs are more dominant than others. Others are very submissive. The dominant dogs will likely "check" you (i.e., growl, snap and/or snarl at you). A dog that is very dominant with a high fight drive will likely bite and hold you.

Remember, he/she is not "yours". In other words, it has not accepted you as dominant over it and it may be willing to show you otherwise.


Thanks for the info.

No problems. Be careful. Also, using your knuckle of your index finger approximates a dog's nose you can use that. I always have the back of my left hand (but only after the animal has expressed that it wishes to play - which doesn't automatically indicate that it's subordinate to me).

One of our local officers has a Czech-import Alsatian (German Shepherd) K-9 officer. He brings the dog into the gunstore and if the officer is okay with it the dog will come to you and "demand" that you pet him. He'll even roll over and let you rub his belly while simultaneously licking whatever part he can reach. Yet this same dog recently broke a felony perpetrator's upper arm in a struggle. I don't initiate contact with this dog, but I do trust him. He comes up and sniffs and wags his tail, makes eye contact and hunches his back. Only then will I call his name and he muzzles my hand.

Check out the phenomenal website: http://www.leerburg.com

 

[Chui]

joab, I wouldn't assume that you're dominant just because you have eye contact. I'd say that you're "in control" because the dog hasn't approached you. You've approached it. My close friends had a 125 lb male Akita. I didn't know this and knocked on the screen door. They said "come in" but Chico arrived at the door. I put my foot on the bottom of the door such that he'd not easily push it open. I rang the bell and they came to let me in. He was staring at me directly until they let me in and he behaved in typical juvenile dog behavior.

Later that night another of their friends came in with one of his friends. The newcomer opened the door and took three or four steps and Chico pinned him against the wall. After they called him off (I don't think he would have bitten him unless he chose to fight the dog) he was fine.

Proof that even though the dog would come sit by me and roll over to be petted does not mean that he would not or could not be a dominant dog in his own right. I believe it's a very dynamic situtation and one should not make ANY assumptions of one's rank - especially with a powerful animal.

 

[ajkurp]

I used to ride a bicycle for exercise. Town dogs were no problem. They were out of shape, slow and the chase never lasted more than 100 yards. Country dogs- they're faster, bigger and can run for a mile or more as fast as a winded fat man can cycle.

The solution is OC spray. The sweet perfume of a cloud of pepper spray lingering in the air will turn the meanest dog into a gentle puppy that immediately goes home to rub his face in the grass.

You're welcome.

 

[Chui]

Geister, don't fall for the hype, man.

I've seen the dog personality tests. I've seen the dog bite data. I've seen the dog-kill data.

A dog bred to fight others of his own kind will do just that: fight his own kind.

A German Shepherd (or any of the cattle dogs, actually) are much more prone to bite you than a pit bulldog. Terriers are much more prone to bite you than a pit bulldog. THINK about it for a second. The dog is much tougher than any other dog. It's NOT threatened easily. And why should it be? It can take more punishment than you could physically dish out to it. But it hasn't been bred to be "sharp" towards humans and they tend to not be protective. I earlier explained the early breeding - and continued breeding - of the gamebred pit bulldogs. Nothing has changed which is why I adore them - except for their penchant to be ANIMAL AGGRESSIVE.

An experiment. And I've both witnessed and done this. Get 7 month old dogs (Sheepdog breeds, terriers and a pit bulldog). Have the owner put them on a lead and tie it to something sturdy. Have a stranger approach the dog and have them just stare at them. Watch the responses closely. Then have them stomp at the dogs aggressively. Watch them closely, again. One will notice that the higher strung terriers and the very protection-oriented sheepdogs respond IMMEDIATELY. The bulldog will be slower to respond if it responds at all.

You can try it with grown dogs, but the other breeds will be so responsive that it's not worth the effort. All of the toy dogs, terriers and working dogs will respond IMMEDIATELY to the mere approach of a stranger. Pit bulldogs usually don't.

Again, it's the percentage of human kills and severe damage where they dominate, not the percentage of dog BITES.

 

[Sage of Seattle]

Chui,

Then how does one establish dominance over animals in a general way to help avoid attacks?

Last night around 11pm, I was on my way from the store, rolling along in my wheelchair at a pretty decent clip, when all of a sudden I heard a dog angle across the street behind me and *whuffed* at me and trailed me for about five or ten yards. My heart surged a bit with adrenaline but I never faltered or slowed my forward travel or acknowledged the dog behind me.

My story may not be terribly relavant to my question, but I just thought I'd mention my rather rare dog run-ins. The time before, I met a neighbor with his long-haired german shepherd which, a little uncontrolled, pranced about me and wanted to jump in my lap and shove her snout in my face. I didn't feel threatened, but the owner was standing right there.

I guess there's an awful lot to learn and thanks for the link. I'm checking it out as I type!

 

[Geister]

Geister, don't fall for the hype, man.

What hype? I'm talking from experience and actual incidents.

Pit bulls are bred to kill. Pit bulls are put into the illegal dog fights around here. End of story.

You can come up with all these different facts, statistics, theories, psych papers, quotes from the Dog Whisperer, etc. but none of it will supercede the fact that pit bulls are bred to kill and they are more dangerous than many other breeds of dogs.

You keep bringing up German Shepards. I don't like German Shepards either. You try to say that pit bulls are "safer" because German Shepards are more likely to bite, but the fact remains that BOTH breeds are more dangerous and prone to bite humans than many other different breeds. I don't have a use for either of them. I can see German Shepards or rotts being used as guard dogs, but I don't have any need for guard dogs. I don't see pit bulls being used as guard dogs at all.

The fact that some of you guys are so defensive when I say that I don't like pit bulls and other vicious dogs proves my point. I don't really care how much more likely Breed A is than Breed B, if either of them come on my property and start getting aggressive, I'm getting one of my guns out.

 

[joab]

I never said that he was incapable of treating the first one properly. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't jump to conclusions.

Didn't say you said it. I said it and stand by it
If this is an example of your experience with pit owners I can see why you have no respect for them

The dog was on a leach in the yard (I think while they were in the process of fence repairs), tried to jump over the fence or something, and got caught and hung itself. Just a freak accident.

The universal excuse when the true answer is "I screwed up and don't want to take the blame"

Some people have to go to work during the day, and sometimes that's the best you can do. To me, it's better that the dog hung himself than to run off and start trouble somewhere.

I work all day and there is no chance that Dozer will hang himself
When you take the responsibility of an animal with the intelligence of a dull two year old you have to take necessary steps to protect the animal, no excuses
The only way a dog can hang itself is if it is left on a chain unattended

But we can all agree on the general idea of what a pit bull looks like. Doesn't matter what the dog organization definition is. Just like the government and pornography. They can't really define it but they know what it is when they see it.

Uh Huh
I have news for you a Lab/Beagle mix can be called a Pit, Ive seen it happen

No it doesn't. You can't tell me that I have to worry about my beagle running off and biting the girl next door.

Yes it does and yes you should if you have not properly trained and socialized your Beagle, I have seen and met mean as hell Beagles.
I have also met many Pits that roam our neighborhood without incident
Repo and Thunderlips are regular visitors and have been since they were pups the neighborhood children have no fear of them but there is a dirty little Lapsa (sp) that is the terror of the bus stops
The kid that provoked my dog into biting him got a nip on the butt.
The Dalmatian (sp) that bit me tried to take my leg off the Boxer gave me stitches in my right cheek

That's something I would worry about with a pit bull or any other aggressive dog but not a beagle.

There's the rub Pits are known by experts and breeders to be non human aggessive, it's in their breeding which you seem to put alot of stock in
You should not have to worry about any kind of pet wandering down the street and biting the neighbor girl, but you do have to worry about the neighbor girls parents reaction to a pit if they to have been educated by the media but you are getting sued no matter what the breed is

You are trying to tell me that pit bulls and other breeds of like dogs such as rotts and dobermans are like every other dog and that's simply not true.

Now who is jumping to conclusions? I have said nowhere that all dogs are the same
Dogs exhibit breed specific behavior no matter what they are. Human aggression is simply not a breed specific trait of Pits. They actually crave human companionship, I guess they are like other dogs in some ways

Dominant dogs have no place in human society. People should ALWAYS be considered dominant.

That displays a lack of education on animal behavior and fully explains why you have chosen to demonize certain breeds

One other thing
When you quote dog bite stats you should also know the legal definition of a bite
if the dogs mouth closes on a person or their clothing whether playing or not whether there is any actual injury or not

And no Chui maintaining eye contact does not establish dominance, but not do so may very well surrender it

IBTL

Lets get back to guns or at least away from breed bashing, before Pax gets here

 

[sansone]

any big dog is a threat. as a rural biker I worry about dogs when approaching a stop sign. hillbillies think no traffic means their dogs can roam. I have a squirt gun with ammonia which works well. if that fails 380 report works too. haven't had to kill anybody's pet yet. the obvious answer is owners too stupid to have a dog should be targeted by animal control authorities

 

[kellyj00]

a few years ago, a rottweiler attacked a young couple when they were walking with their infant in a stroller.

The man yelled at the animal, the wife grabbed the baby. The rottweiler circled around the man and attacked the wife, took the baby and swung it around by it's arm, causing serious trauma.

The baby lived. The reason the story made it into the paper is because the man left the hospital and went to the humane society with a revolver, killing the rottweiler in a cage.

I'd do the same. Except for extreme incidents, it takes TWO attacks on a human for a dog to be put down by the authorities. There was no word as to whether the rottweiler was going to be put down anyway.

 

[sansone]

when I was 12 my younger brother was attacked by a bull mastif?? anyhow, it was real bad. (brother almost lost the leg) my dad showed up after the ambulance had left. the dog was now restrained but in sight. Dad "lost it" and went over to where the dog was and almost shot it. a cop pulled up as dad was taking aim. talked him into putting the gun away. nowadays the cops would probably freak-out at seeing a gun (the dog owner was so traumatized by seeing her pet maul a kid she was in some kind of shock) the whole scene still haunts my dreams 40yrs later

 

[joab]

Proof that even though the dog would come sit by me and roll over to be petted does not mean that he would not or could not be a dominant dog in his own right. I believe it's a very dynamic situtation and one should not make ANY assumptions of one's rank - especially with a powerful animal.

__________________But on the street you are not trying to establish a relationship with the animal, you are trying to get out of one

In that type of encounter I will try my best to dominate and control the situation.

I have developed my techniques for dealing with other peoples dog through trial and error over twenty five years and twenty three bites

with those stats you may chose to ignore my advice

But I haven't been bitten in over ten years so I might have finally figured something out

 

[Chui]

"Pit bulls are bred to kill."

Bull*****. Too much ignorance is spouted and you've bought into it. Hook, line and sinker. Are guns only for killing? Same emotionally immature ideology.

"You can come up with all these different facts, statistics, theories, psych papers, quotes from the Dog Whisperer, etc. but none of it will supercede the fact that pit bulls are bred to kill and they are more dangerous than many other breeds of dogs."

Yep. Let's not allow facts to cloud our emotional responses...

"You keep bringing up German Shepards. I don't like German Shepards either. You try to say that pit bulls are "safer" because German Shepards are more likely to bite, but the fact remains that BOTH breeds are more dangerous and prone to bite humans than many other different breeds."

Actually, you're very much incorrect. I'll try to find the dog personality survey/experiment or a link to the study (assuming you'll even take the time to read it with an open mind. You sound like the the same type of people who would call YOU dangerous because you like guns. Therefore, YOU'RE more likely to hurt someone because guns are made for only one thing, you know... BS.

"The fact that some of you guys are so defensive when I say that I don't like pit bulls and other vicious dogs proves my point. I don't really care how much more likely Breed A is than Breed B, if either of them come on my property and start getting aggressive, I'm getting one of my guns out."

No, the reason I speak up is because I know what you BELIEVE is BS. You don't know much about the breed and you don't sound like a dog person at all so I'd question your ability to define or discuss any breed of dog intelligently. No different than those people who'd like to ban "assault weapons". All emotion and NO INTELLECTUAL UNDERSTANDING.

And no one (well, at least not me anyway) is going to disagree with you defending yourself from any animal (dog or man).