I was at the range yesterday trying some loads using my Ruger Blackhawk .357 with 16 grains of 2400 under a 125 grain JHP. I was using new Starline brass and Winchester small pistol primers. I was shooting 5 rounds. After firing what I thought was the fifth round I checked the cylinder and saw that one primer was still intact, or so I thought, so I rotated the cylinder and fired again except nothing happened? I pulled the shells from the chamber and all had been fired and one shell still had most of the powder in it. In fact there was a grape size ball of the 2400 lumped together and the rest was just spilled granular power. I immediately pulled the cylinder out and sure enough the bullet was lodged in the throat of my revolver about 1/2 inch in. We took a dowel and punched it out. The only explanation that I can think of is that the primer misfired the first time it was hit and only ignited enough powder to make the bullet jump. And, I think that is why the primer looked like it hadn't been fired when I first checked it. Anybody experience anything like this?
Dangerous situation and don't know why?
- Thread starter Milt1
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ClickClickD'oh
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If the powder was clumped instead of pouring out of the case, I would suspect there was moisture contamination in the case or powder.
These cases had not been wet tumbled. I thought of moisture inside the case as something made the powder clump and I wondered if just a light strike from the primer could cause that? In addition to the clump of powder there was also some loose powder. I continued shooting with a mixture of .357 and also .38 Special rounds and didn't experience anything out of the ordinary.
Jim Watson
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I have seen this on factory loads twice ever. The powder just kind of melted into a ball instead of igniting. I don't know why.
If so, consider yourself fortunate that it was the evidently the last round fired.I do not know, I was not there. I was at the range with another local reloader. Between us was a reloader/shooter doing everything he could do to rotate his cylinder. He could not pull the trigger back, he could not pull the trigger, he could not roll the cylinder out to eject the cases. His pistol was locked up. We stopped everything and helped him. He loaded a case with bullet and primer, no powder. We drove bullet back into the case, we handed him his pistol and immediately he started loading it again.
Long story, we offered to give him all the ammo he could shoot, we offered to help him with his reloading, we offered to loan or give him reloading equipment that would make his reloads safer to shoot. He got upset and left.
I have no ideal what bad habits reloaders develop, we all know a clump of powder is not going through a powder measure. After tumbling there is no liquid or fluid gets close to my cases, unless the bullets are lead, then there is lube.
F. Guffey
Long story, we offered to give him all the ammo he could shoot, we offered to help him with his reloading, we offered to loan or give him reloading equipment that would make his reloads safer to shoot. He got upset and left.
I have no ideal what bad habits reloaders develop, we all know a clump of powder is not going through a powder measure. After tumbling there is no liquid or fluid gets close to my cases, unless the bullets are lead, then there is lube.
F. Guffey
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PJSprog
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Sounds like you need to start pulling bullets.
buck460XVR
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Even if the primer misfired, the impression from the firing pin would be the same. If it looked like it hadn't been hit with the firing pin, it probably hadn't. That said, it must have ignited enough to dislodge the bullet, even if it did not ignite the powder. The "grape sized" ball of powder plus loose powder tells me there was powder in the case and it was not a primer only load. Either you had a bad primer, the powder was contaminated or the case was considerably undercharged. If they were new cases, could there have been something inside the case when you loaded it that kept the powder from igniting, like lint, or packaging material? 2400 doe not need magnum primers(Alliant actually says not to use magnum primers with 2400) to ignite properly, so other than contamination, undercharge or bad primer, the only other thing I could think of was you had excessive bullet jump from firing the previous 4 rounds and that there was not enough pressure to make the powder ignite.
243winxb
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Spray lube ? Most dont use lube with carbide dies, some do.? Or if the bullet pull was light, the bullet jumped crimp, moving forward after the first 5 were fired??
Sunray
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"...and only ignited enough powder to..." Not likely. The primer alone is enough to push a bullet into the barrel.
The powder 'grape' feel oily? It'll be the spray lube mentioned by 243winxb or moisture in the case mentioned by jmorris.
The powder 'grape' feel oily? It'll be the spray lube mentioned by 243winxb or moisture in the case mentioned by jmorris.
CLP
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or a dollop of grease or some oil
I suspected bullet jump but that wasn't the case as after this happened with 16 grains of 2400, I then shot five rounds that were loaded with 16.5 grains of 2400 and no problems. Someone ask if I could tell the difference between a squib and regular load and the answer is yes. Again, as I checked the rounds in the cylinder and noticed that one round was unfired and so rotated the cylinder so this round could be fired is probably when this happened although there was no "bang" or recoil or nothing, just the normal sound of the firing pin hitting on a fired primer.
I was very lucky that the round that misfired was the last one. I think this is a caution to all of us that we make sure that each fired round actually goes down range. I will definitely know that in the future. We may never know what happened but I wanted all of you guys to be aware that the unexpected can happen.
I was very lucky that the round that misfired was the last one. I think this is a caution to all of us that we make sure that each fired round actually goes down range. I will definitely know that in the future. We may never know what happened but I wanted all of you guys to be aware that the unexpected can happen.
243winxb
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neck tension-bullet pull
Was brass run thru the sizing die before loading? Or did you just load the new brass right from the container? What is your expanders diameter?
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Regarding the brass, I think that this was the 2nd time that it had been used. My routine is to punch the used primers out with a universal die, then wash the cases, then resize and expand and then wash again and dry before priming. These cases had sat in my plastic shell holder case for several weeks since the prep mentioned above. In fact I'd had these cases out to the range previously as some had been loaded and some hadn't so there was plenty of time for the cases to dry out if there had been some wetness. Oh, and by the way, I checked my container of 2400 after I got back from the range and no clumps or anything close to that, just once dry granular powder.
I was going to suggest that also. I had it happen many moons ago with a 357 Mag. The powder looked like a little birds nest and also had my one and only squib.
The hammer falling on a primer can be heard if there is no bullet. If the case had a bullet and no powder when the hammer falls on the primer there is no sound.
How far out of the case will the bullet go? No one knows, for most it is good when the bullet does not get out of the way and on a cylinder type pistol it is good the bullet locks the cylinder. If the bullet is driven into the barrel and then fired again there could be two bullets trying to exit the barrel.
I have pistol barrels with 6 bullets stacked in them. Removing the bullets from barrels would have been a waste of time because of forcing cone was stretched. Then there are the barrels that remind me of a snake that swallowed an egg.
F. Guffey
gamestalker
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This is quite common with magnum class loads. I don't experience it any more, but in my earlier beginnings I hadn't applied enough roll crimp, and the stout inertia produced by the first few cartridges was enough for the bullet to defeat the crimp, which results in the bullet pulling forward and breaking free of the crimp. Once the bullet breaks free of the crimp, that large magnum powder charge can't build enough pressure to attain proper ignition.
What you describe sounds like a classic case of bullet jump, which is caused by the lack of sufficient roll crimp.
GS
What you describe sounds like a classic case of bullet jump, which is caused by the lack of sufficient roll crimp.
GS
I recently had 2 primers in 40 S&W fail to ignite. Wrote them off as bad primers. Pulled the bullets later and found moist powder clinging to the bullet base. I only tumble with crushed walnut shells. I can only surmise that moisture was introduced to those 2 casings during my reloading process. For me, it effected the primer and powder.
Salmoneye
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We have a winner...
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