Dash Cam video showing danger after bad guy is hit

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lbmii

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I was drifting about at random on the Internet when I came upon a police cam video of a shooting. There is a struggle followed by a two way exchange of gun fire.

The thing to watch in this video is how potentially lethal, committed and ardent the bad guy remained even after being shot and going down. The all hell breaking loose happens at around the 4:00 mark. Also note the bad guy's right hand and body positioning during the interview part before he attacked.

http://blutube.policeone.com/police-officer-involved-incidents-videos/2238057705001-attempted-murder-of-cop-cop-shoots-man-in-defense/
 
This proves the point that Jeff Cooper made. A handgun is used to fight your way to a rifle.
 
We don't do many reviews of situations involving LE here, because we're oriented more toward armed citizens. The major factors here in what happened pivot on the differences in how LEOs must approach situations like this, and how armed citizens should.

That said, some basic lessons can still be drawn. Handguns are not death rays, and may well not even incapacitate. Gunfights are often very dynamic events - standing calmly in a stationary position, shooting at a stationary target, might not be a good way to learn skills that are likely to be called on if ever involved in a fight. And so on.
 
Fred Fuller said:
We don't do many reviews of situations involving LE here, because we're oriented more toward armed citizens. The major factors here in what happened pivot on the differences in how LEOs must approach situations like this, and how armed citizens should.

That said, some basic lessons can still be drawn. Handguns are not death rays, and may well not even incapacitate. Gunfights are often very dynamic events - standing calmly in a stationary position, shooting at a stationary target, might not be a good way to learn skills that are likely to be called on if ever involved in a fight. And so on.
Click to expand...
I'd just like to note one small thing - Without a solid understanding of the fundamentals of marksmanship as applies to pistol shooting, all the "tactical combat training" in the world won't help you.

Increased accuracy will translate to more effective defensive capabilities with a handgun.
 
I have to applaud the accuracy of the officer in this video. There were not many shots fired, the lighting conditions were poor, the BG was moving fairly quickly. Good work.
 
Although I did flinch a little after the second officer arrived and while approaching the man, the original officer brushes right in front of the others gun. I know, lots of adrenaline so I'm not complaining, but it is also a reminder that you can be pretty flustered for a while after the event as well. That rush takes a while to settle down and in that time, you're not always thinking perfectly clearly.
 
My thought was that this video might illustrate that in a self defense situation a downed bad guy is still potentially very lethal to either yourself or your family.
 
This is exactly why my son tells me that he is trained to continue firing until the perp is completely incapacitated.
And, he was just issued an M&P .45.
 
I'm no Jeff Cooper - but I couldn't agree more with the sentiments expressed. I've always thought that a handgun was useful... only if you couldn't get something better. Can't remember how many incidents I heard of or was involved in where someone was shot and didn't exactly quit moving (and that goes for both sides of the coin -bad actor or good guy). The actual results of a gunshot wound on a human are just too unpredictable to be believed.

I'll get down off of my soapbox now...
 
Its true enough that being hit didnt instantly cease this guys aggression, but it clearly did put him on his posterior fairly quickly. He was still a threat, but clearly being shot, even by a "dinky handgun", had a significant and fairly rapid effect. I don't see too much of a lesson on stopping power here.

What I do see, is a clear lesson on recognizing when a fairly ordinary interaction turned into a fight to the death. The officer (not to armchair quarterback him) was clearly behind in getting his weapon into action. You can see him kind of fumble when the guys demeanor changes, almost like hes not sure if he should draw his gun or maybe his spray or tazer. This hesitation allowed the other guy to produce his weapon.
 
A couple things I noticed around the 4:40 mark when things started to go south.....

I read an article a while ago about officers and how when they use alpha commands (direct and clear commands with an exclamation point) and then drop down to beta commands (sounding more like a request and unclear demands) can lead to a suspect feeling as though they are starting to gain control of the situation. The suspect begins to feel inspired and continues to see how far they can push. In this example, notice instead of the LEO making the suspect get his hands on the car and start using alpha commands he reverts to beta command of "please don't do this." This is exactly an example of what this article is talking about. This isn't an area that is isolated to enforcing the law. This something we as citizens can learn from should we ever find ourselves in a situation where we begin using alpha commands when necessary.

I'd also like to bring up something I've learned in a Krav Maga class and something I have seen Gabe Suarez and Kelly Mcann teach. When the suspect started to go to his waist the officer started back pedalling (which is a bad idea on many levels as you already know). One option I learned in KM and seen the above teach is the felony draw where you step in immediately and control his wrist, jam up his draw or slap his hand away and immediately overwhelm the suspect with violence and eventually creating an opportunity to bring your sidearm (or other tool of choice) into the fight. Please note I am not trying to play armchair quarterback here. It's just how I have been taught and envisioned handling a situation such as this if heaven for bit I ever find myself in a similar situation.
 
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Just a bad deal all around. You never know whats going to happen. thankfully the LEO cam out okay on this one. I was expecting this to be the trooper coates video and that is just an awful circumstance. Just goes to show you never know what will happen.
 
Rail Driver
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Quote:

I'd just like to note one small thing - Without a solid understanding of the fundamentals of marksmanship as applies to pistol shooting, all the "tactical combat training" in the world won't help you.

Increased accuracy will translate to more effective defensive capabilities with a handgun.
Click to expand...

Thank you, this is what I have been saying for a long time. I have been argued with on boards for this sentiment. I see people at the gun range all the time shooting a no more than 7 yards, and they can't hit twice in a 6" circle. They should spend some ammo trying to get on the paper at 50 feet just to develop some accuracy in their shooting, then they can study the quick reaction drills at 7 yards.

Surprising how many will argue they don't need to learn to shoot accurately.
 
The Badguy put his hand on that gun no less than three times during the film BEFORE he went for it.
Honestly that guy should have been sitting on the ground with his hands on his head facing the headlights long before he pulled.
 
Something also interesting in the video is that after the shooting occurs, a full 3 minutes pass before police sirens (the officer's backup) can be heard in the background. And this is on an officer-involved shooting, which is a type of call where backup officers waste NO time in getting to the scene. A lot can happen in those three minutes. Something to think about. Fortunately, the officer was able to gain and maintain control of the situation, and was not shot at again.
 
Some of my training as a LEO was to "stay in the fight". Just because you're shot doesn't mean the bad guy will take pity on you and not shot you again.

One of the training films involved an interview with a female LEO who'd been shot in her driveway by 2 or 3 thugs, along with a dramatization of the event. Although shot, she stayed in the fight, and managed to shot them. She obviously survived, and was there to tell other LEO's not to just give up if you are wounded.

Very important mental training. My thoughts were if I'm going to die, I'm taking them with me. Fortunately, it never came to that for me.

People say don't be a Mon. morning quarterback, but that's what you have to do to determine if there were errors made, so you don't repeat them.
 
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