Debating gun rights

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Tim James

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After my friend wrote a letter to the local newspaper editor, we started discussing how to best argue for gun rights. He thought that it was better to use facts and statistics because one won't usually change one's values and ideals, but it's difficult to dispute the numbers.

I asserted that if you put the discussion on the level of statistics, you let your rights get trampled when the statistics happen to flip the other way. For example, if crime goes up 3% after new firearms regulations, one could stand by one's assertion that gun laws work. It would be better to work on someone's ideals and understanding.

I thought about it some more and came up with the ideas below. Let me know what you think.

If someone makes a quantifiable statement that is untrue or voices an unfounded concern, respond with facts. For example: "If we let employees bring guns to work in their cars, they'll get disgruntled and kill everyone." The response is: "Actually, 84% of murders at work occur from strangers. Your fear is unfounded."

If the statement is unquantifiable or hasn't been tracked, try reason. For example: "We ought to make schools a gun-free zone." The response is: "Passing laws to make gun-free zones only ensures that law-abiding citizens won't have guns. Criminals, who are prepared to do much worse than ignore a gun statute, won't be stopped by an invisible force-field at the edge of your school. In fact, they're more likely to want to commit crime in a gun-free zone."

If the statement is about ideals, argue with ideals that have a firmer foundation. For example: "Guns are okay for hunting and target shooting, but they should be strongly regulated and shouldn't be used for self-defense because people can kill with them." The response is: "Provided one intends to do no harm to other innocent people, one has an absolute right to self-defense with whatever evil-looking gun one chooses. Our Founding Fathers wanted guns to be almost unregulated to ensure that rights would not be trampled."

Obviously, a combination of the 3 is the real zinger.

One other thing to consider: these techniques apply to the soundbite, letter-to-the-editor world that we interact in most of the time. It would certainly be better to sit down, really listen to both sides, let the walls come down, and get on the same side of the problem to work out the best solution. Maybe that's what we really need to do more often.

Techniques too general? Was this already obvious to anyone who's familiar with formal debate? My concern is that we're going about this the wrong way sometimes and turning people off. Discuss.
 
A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

Next question.;)
 
A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

Thats what it means before you apply the anti-guns "living document" definitions.

Translated:

"The police, standing military, and my bodyguard being necessary to making sure someone dosnt stuff me in a shallow grave for unfairly taxing everyones paychecks then wasting all that money on booze and ho's; the right of my people to own and shoot guns shall not be treated in the same way as the rights of you people when I'm done regulating you all back to slavery."
 
Me: [chuckling] I appreciate the humor.
Anti-gunner: [rolling her eyes as she sends in her dues for the Brady Campaign] There go those gun nuts again.

We can figure out ways to improve our message, or we could scoff at that need and wonder later on Internet forums why all our rights have disappeared.
 
I disagree whole-heartedly. Leftists have very firm ideals such as, Altruism, Collectivism, and Skepticism.
 
Hell, I can't even get the hanky-twisting bedwetters to understand that guns and cars are BOTH Physics 101 fodder. They're stuck on stupid with their "designed to.." and "the intent of..." analogies. They simply can't be reasoned with. You'll you come at them with logic, common sense, and history...they counter with emotion, supposition, and projection.
 
Use common sense arguments that are simple and easy to understand. Be sure to have reams of memorized facts to explain and back up your statements. The idea is to beat down any resistance with facts but to make the slogans stick in their heads until they accept it as truth.

Most minds are simple, but you need the facts to win over other intelligent people that the sheep will defer to. The best forum is to get argumentive people alone and just have rational discussions with them. If you get a smart person in front of a group, it will quickly degenerate into a points scoring match in which neither side will win.

Rational discussion is important because we should always win on the merits. Dont be afraid to concede points that are perfectly compatible with the points you are trying to get across. Listen to them carefully and learn to recognize the kernel of weakness in their arguments so that you can attack it with a minimal chance of offending them. The more you can build consensus with the other person, the quicker they will realize you are on their side and they just have a few assumptions wrong.

Some starting points:
"The police can't always get there on time."
"The police can't be everywhere."
"The people you worry about doing bad things with guns already carry guns without permission."
"Having a gun doesnt oblige you to use it, it just gives you more options in a bad situation."
"You arent shooting them to protect your wallet, youre shooting them because they might take more than the wallet after you cooperate."

"I've carried a gun for x years and nothing bad ever happened."
"Almost everyone else here has a gun and it isnt a big deal."
"Shooting is fun, you should give it a try."
"Yeah its legal to own that. You should go to the range and try a few out to see what you like. You might like x, its a great gun."

But you should recognize that some people feel fundamentally uncomfortable with weapons or with hurting other living things. Dont push these guys too hard or too fast, but dont hesitate to answer any questions they might have or encourage any curiosity on their part.
 
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