Defective primers??

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ChuckB

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I've loaded thousands of .45acp and 9mm over the last two years. Now, for the first time, I've had a few FTF's. I started buying Magtech small pistol primers, because they were in stock, and their ammo is pretty good, in my experience. But then I had three FTF's out of the last 250 rounds. All of the primers had solid hits. The firing pin spring in my XD9 is strong, and shoots an unsharpened pencil far across my room. Has anyone else had such a problem with Magtechs, or any other brand? I shoot in competition, and a "click" sure loses points!

Chuck
 
I had that issue, however, my CZ75 has a lightened hammer spring in it...some primers were a bit harder than others and I would get a few failures to fire. Changing out the spring did the trick...Magtech as a whole is a pretty good product. Do you have another gun you can test the rounds in...renting a gun at your local range may be worth it to discover if there is a primer issue
 
Have you tried firing the rounds again? Maybe the primers weren't fully seated.
 
Hello, Chuck.

The firing pin spring in my XD9 is strong
I think you mean the striker spring.

When changing primer brands, sometimes we don't get them seated quite so perfectly. Over the last 41 years, I've done it occassionally. As our friend Mags suggests, be open the the possibility that the primers may not be at fault.
 
Thanks for the replies. I'm pretty careful about seating primers fully. As noted, there's a deep indentation from the firing pin into the primer. Second strike? Didn't work. I'm not too crazy about trying them in another (rental) gun, especially because the failure percentage at about 1%, on average. If I fire 100 rounds through a rental gun w/o a hitch, statistically it doesn't quite prove much.

Chuck
 
It was a while ago but I did fire ammo made with 1000 Magtech primers without any failures. Just because I didn't have a problem doesn't mean you didn't get a bad batch of primers. It's unusual for primers to be bad but it's not unheard of.
 
One percent mistake

I'd say that's about what I get out of Magtech. Frankly, doesn't bother me because at least they are bringing product to market. I'd prefer to buy CCI, Winchester, or Federal, but 99% of Magtech is better than 0% of the others in this market.
 
1% is exponentially high for primer failures.

Mags/ants: +2

I'm 62 and have been shooting since I was 10. I started reloading late but have loaded about 5000 rds of 9mm, and have never seen a primer fail, with the exception of a CZ with a lightened 'hammer' spring that requires Federals to fire 100% of the time. Even with harder primers, it always fired on the second hit.

Almost nothing is impossible, but I would triple check everything already mentioned and add: to check the next time to see if the cartridge is "fully" in battery and the slide closed. What does the crimp ( not actually a crimp) diameter measure?

After all of that I would contact Magtech, explain the situation and and ask for their figures on primer failures.

Let us know how it turns out.

Good luck.
 
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Back from the range. I "finger checked" all 150 rounds before leaving home, and the primers were all smoothly even with the rear of the brass. I ended up with two FTF's. The first fired on second strike, but the second one didn't, and I racked the slide to get it out. It had a nice indentation in the primer. I pulled the bullet, and popped out the primer. The front part of the primer (anvil?) looked just like all the others in my primer loader. I really don't see how this could be due to high-set primers. I am frustrated.

Chuck
 
I've loaded and fired approximately 20,000 MagTech small pistol primers (all in .38 Special) and have yet to have a misfire. Another 2,000 have been loaded and fired through my four XD's in 9x19, again without a misfire.

You mentioned I "finger checked" all 150 rounds before leaving home, and the primers were all smoothly even with the rear of the brass. This may be the source of your problem. Primers should ideally be seated below flush, preferably about .004" below flush. If the primer isn't seated deep enough to set the anvil inside the primer cup, the firing pin blow isn't enough to fully seat the primer the rest of the way and crush the primer pellet.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
Hi Chuck B,



Have you dis-assembled the FTF rounds in question, to...


A) See if there is any Powder in the Cartridges?


B) And if there is...to remove and inspect the Primers, to see if they 'fired', and, to inspect the Primer Pockets for blockage?
 
I have used about 24K Magtech primers in the last two years and never had one not work. That said, to me they "feel" different when seating than say CCI. I am thinking along with the others that seating depth that is your problem. There would be some others with issues if the primers were bad I would think, but you may be the first to experience it. With any luck other primers may start to become available soon and you can go back to what has worked in the past.
 
Have you dis-assembled the FTF rounds in question, to...


A) See if there is any Powder in the Cartridges?


B) And if there is...to remove and inspect the Primers, to see if they 'fired', and, to inspect the Primer Pockets for blockage?

Did that. The primer was intact, the case had powder, and the primer was unfired.

Primers should ideally be seated below flush, preferably about .004" below flush. If the primer isn't seated deep enough to set the anvil inside the primer cup, the firing pin blow isn't enough to fully seat the primer the rest of the way and crush the primer pellet.

Wow. Didn't know that. I never had a problem with .45's, only 9's. Maybe I need to order a new primer "seater"?, because I use significan tforce when seating my primers.

Chuck
 
Ahhhhhh...well...if no Vibrator-cleaning media was blocking the Primer holes...and the dented Primer was un-fired...then, "yes" indeed, it does sound like a defective Primer.


Lol...


Hope you did not mind me asking...
 
I recommend reading this article.

http://www.shootersjournal.com/Features/Haps/ItDidn'tGoBang.pdf

A potential reason your primers are not igniting may be an inadequate firing pin strike. (Which may be by design. I can imagine that the firearm maker used the lightest mainspring, to give the lightest trigger pull) Or an offcenter strike, because of poor manufacturing processes and control.
.

I find this very frustrating because it becomes a race to the bottom.

In 1999 Winchester changed their nickel plated WLR, WSR, heck their entire product line, to "increase primer sensitivity and combat off center strikes".

What happened is that the new "brass" WSR primers pierce at loads that never bothered the old wonderful nickel plated primers.

So why are primer manufacturers making their primers so sensitive? : because they don’t like people claiming their primers are garbage because they won't fire off in "ole Betsy". The fact that Ole Betsy may have old mainsprings, a poorly designed firing mechanism with insufficient ignition power, and the owner may have installed reduced power mainsprings, is unlikely to be assigned as a cause on the internet.

Nope, it is all the primers fault.

As long as you reload, you can find primers that are ultra sensitive. Federal primers come to mind. They are proud that their primers are the most sensitive on the market. However, don’t use one in a military mechanism, like a Garand. They are so sensitive that I had two slamfires in Garands, one that blew the back of the receiver off.

In fact, don’t use factory ammo. You have no control of the primers the factory uses. It might be a cold day, you might have a little oil around the firing pin, your firing pin strike may already be off center, the primer cup might be thicker than normal, and when you need your pistol, it may not go bang.
 
Oh, my! I didn't know the world of primers was so iffy, Slam. My striker spring is healthy. I just don't see how a primer with an obviously solid pin hit could not fire- set high or not. It's happened a few times now.:mad:

Chuck
 
Get out your calipers and measure 50 of your rounds to get your average primer seating depth. While your finger is a great gage to about 0.001", it isn't perfect. You'll get a really good feel for how well you are doing and you can adjust your seating technique to get the primers down to 0.004" or so.
 
Magtech primers are made in Brazil by a company called "Companhia Brasileira de Cartuchos" or CBC for short.
At one time Remington owned a stake in the company.
CBC has grown over the decades and most recently acquired Sellier & Bellot.

If it were me, I would contact their US headquarters in Minnesota.
http://www.magtechammunition.com/sitepages/pid24.php
 
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