Democrats are gun-friendly

[355sigfan]

Did I say that? Nope. Do I consider them my hero's? Nope. While the pickins' may be slim in DC the Democrats are the worst of the bunch at this time.
END QUOTE

I am not so sure anymore. As for blaming unions for jobs going south thats a stretch. People have a right to make a fair wage. Without unions many people would not get that. As one who has been screwed by big buisness I am gratefull to unions. Their not perfect but their necessary.

People should not depend on the goverment but the government should give people a helping hand if they need it. The great depression showed us that not all social programs are bad. And some are down right necessary. My comments about Bush were honest and heart felt and not for shock value. I have utter contempt for the man and I voted for him the first time around.

As for overtime. Bush changed the Fair Labor Standards Act in regards to overtime. He made it far easier for big buisness to screw people out of their overtime pay. He added far more loopholes. In fact at first he screwed cops, fire fighters and other first responders. He took so much political heat that he changed that and made first responders exempt from the changes. Who benefited from these changes. Workers, no, tax payers no. Only big buisness benefited. The man is a slug. I am almost hoping for a democratic president just to re-establish some grid lock and order. Bush has raised the defict to all time high levels again. This after Clinton had us running with a surplus.
Pat

 

[RealGun]

A word about political party names

It may seem trendy to use names like "Democrat", but at the same time one might think you adolescent to do so. The name is Democrat, never "Democratic". There are also those with legitimate ties to the Democrat Party who would certainly appreciate a correct reference to their party of choice. The flip side is that one might react negatively if their own party of choice was referred to by way of pejoratively altered name.

Can we take it that "Democrat", "Repugnican" and the like is not The High Road?

 

[Silver Bullet]

Or would you rather push our old people out on the street like Bush. Welfare should be limited and ithas been to 5 years. I actually think we should go to workfare. Give people meanial jobs for their welfare check. Hate applies more to the radical right in the republican party right now. They hate the middle class (trying to take overtime money ext), they hate seniors (social security rip off), the hate youth (Killing young people by staying in Iraq well past when we should have left). There is a lot of crap on both sides of the political isle in Washington. Republicans are not the hero's you think they are.

OT

 

[beerslurpy]

quote function has been gone for a few days now.

 

[hwp]

Just to simplify things, the last time a democ**p was in office guns got banned.

GW among his many failures has not banned any guns.

I admit GW is not the president I thought he would be and I am mad as heck about his immigration policies but I still think he is better than any Democrat I can think of and that shows the all time low depths the Democrats have reached.

 

[CAnnoneer]

+1 hwp #48

The quote function can be done manually by typing:
1) at the beginning - open quare bracket, type "quote", close square bracket
2) at the end - open square bracket, division sign, type "quote", close square bracket

like this

 

[SIOP]

In fact at first he screwed cops, fire fighters and other first responders. He took so much political heat that he changed that and made first responders exempt from the changes. Who benefited from these changes. Workers, no, tax payers no. Only big buisness benefited.

Gee, I don't know about where you're from, but around here, and everywhere else I've ever lived in my life, firefighters, cops, and first responders work for the government, ergo the taxpayer. So how did the overtime rules that affected them benefit big business?

 

[355sigfan]

QUOTE
Just to simplify things, the last time a democ**p was in office guns got banned.

GW among his many failures has not banned any guns.
END QUOTE

Remember Bush sr. The 1989 semi auto import ban. Remember the 1986 machinegun ban guess who was president then.

QUOTE
Gee, I don't know about where you're from, but around here, and everywhere else I've ever lived in my life, firefighters, cops, and first responders work for the government, ergo the taxpayer. So how did the overtime rules that affected them benefit big business?
END QUOTE

Please take more time next time you read my posts. He changed overtime rules for everyone. Then he took political heat from people because he screwed cops, firefighters and ems. Then he restored us back to the way it was. But everyone one else who works for private enterprise and the government is scewed. looked it up. That was the straw that broke the camels back for me. Thats why I voted libertarian in the last election.
Pat

 

[scout26]

To bring this back on-topic.

"Some" local and state level Democrats are gun friendly (I.E. The Democrat State Senators and Representatives from Southern Illinois.)

"Some" local and state level Democrats are Anti-Gun (I.E. Chicago and Cook County Democrats: Mayor Daley, Gov. Blagojevich, The Cook County Board, Chicago Aldermen, State Senators and Representatives from Chicago.)

"Most" National Democrats are Anti-Gun (Feinstein, Schumer, Clinton, Durbin, Kerry, Kennedy, Obama, e.g "The Leaders of the Party")

Can someone name five "National" Democrats that are pro-gun ???

 

[ThreadKiller]

So the Democrats say they're "gun friendly" now? Reminds me of the old story of the young Indian brave who brings a nearly frozen rattlesnake down off a mountaintop only to be bitten. The brave wonders why, after helping the snake, he is bitten.

"You knew what I was when you picked me up," hissed the snake.

As long as Senator Teddie (D-Chappaquiddick) is a poster boy for the Democratic Party, don't for one second believe they're "gun friendly."

 

[RealGun]

Can someone name five "National" Democrats that are pro-gun ???

Democrat House members with GOA rating of A or B:

Alabama - Cramer
Arkansas - Ross
Louisiana - Melancon
Maine - Michaud
Minnesota - Peterson
Mississippi - Taylor
Ohio - Strickland
Tennessee - Davis, Gordon, Tanner
Virginia - Boucher
West Virginia - Mollohan, Rahall

It's important for these folks to get proper credit.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Let's make it real simple. Democrats will never get elected to the Presidencial office if they are pro gun period. Big inner city will never elect pro gun Democrats. Democrats thrive on their ticket based on the reliance of fear. More guns means more death "do you want that?" tactic. Works for votes.

 

[cuchulainn]

Me: The underlying fallacy of this thread -- and the 50ish others like it on THR over the years -- is that is assumes we loath the Democratic party solely on the basis of guns.

Art Eatman: Oh, Lord, no, cuchalainn! There are multitudes of reasons to loathe the left. But this is a gun board. I don't bother listing the other umpteen-hundred reasons.

My point was that these threads trying to convince us that the "Democrats are gun friendly" seem to assume that it's only about guns for us -- that we'd somehow vote for the Dems if only we got past the gun issue. But, as you note, a multitude of other issues disqualify the Dems without even considering guns.

However -- looking at just guns -- invariably, in any race, the R is either better or just as good as the D. Thus, I'm going to vote R regardless of guns. The only time I'd have any dilemma (gun-wise) is if the D were more pro-gun than the R -- but that never happens.

Thus, I'll repeat my challenge: I defy anyone to come up with 10 races -- in the history of U.S. politics -- where the D was better than the R on guns.

RealGun: It's important for these folks to get proper credit.

I bet their Republican opponents have been equally pro-gun (or better). Thus, it's important to vote against these exception-to-the rule pro-gun Democrats and put people in office who are just as pro-gun, but better on a multitute of other issues.

 

[RealGun]

I bet their Republican opponents have equally pro-gun (or better). Thus, it's important to vote against them and put people in office who are just as good on guns but better on many other issues.

Michaud of Maine was rated higher than his Republican opponent. However, the opponent was rated on response to a questionnaire. Michaud was the incumbent and had a voting record.

Melancon (D) and Romero (R) of the 03 district of Louisiana were equally high rated. Melancon won the election for the open seat (both rated on questionaires alone).

Peterson of Minnesota was the incumbent Democrat with an A rating. The Republican opponent, Sturrock, was not rated, i.e. blew off the GOA questionaire.

The others pretty much support your point.

 

[cuchulainn]

RealGun: Melancon (D) and Romero (R) of the 03 district of Louisiana were equally high rated.

Actually, there have been plenty more races where the D and R were equally good (or equally bad) -- but that's different from what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about races where the D is better than the R on guns -- where the gun issue would give me pause in voting R. You've come up with two (one, really, but I'll give you "blew off the GOA questionnaire" [What about the NRA rating?]).

Eight more to go folks. Just eight races -- among the hundreds of thousands of races in the history of U.S. politics, from dog catcher to POTUS, from the 1850s when the Rs formed to 2006 -- where the Democrat was better than the Republican on guns.

RealGun: The others pretty much support your point.

Thank you.

 

[cuchulainn]

RealGun: Melancon (D) and Romero (R) of the 03 district of Louisiana were equally high rated.

Actually, there have been plenty more races where the D and R were equally good (or equally bad) -- but that different from what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about races where the D is better than the R on guns -- where the gun issue would give me pause in voting R. You've come up with two (one, really, but I'll give you "blew off the questionairre").

Eight more to go folks. Just eight races -- among the hundreds of thousands of races in the history of U.S. politics, from dog catcher to POTUS, from the 1850s when the Rs formed to 2006 -- where the Democrat was better than the Republican on guns.

RealGun: The others pretty much support your point.

Thank you.

 

[lostone1413]

The question is who is less anti gun. With the Republicans in control of everything I can't see were they remember us gun owners. Oh yes the protection bill. I for one with the amendments don't look at that as pro gun. Not for us anyway. Oh then the AWB expired. That came up before what everyone thought would be a close election. Then don't forget if it wasn't for the Republican controled Senate we would nnever had the AWB to begin with. I for one will vote 3rd party for now on. After 40 years of voting Republican they have showed me one thing. Since 911 they have done more to destroy the Republic then any leadership i've seen in DC in my life

 

[cuchulainn]

lostone1413: Then don't forget if it wasn't for the Republican controled Senate we would nnever had the AWB to begin with.

The Republicans weren't in control of the Senate when the AWB passed.

 

[lostone1413]

Bet they were if you look back they controled the Senate both terms Clinton was in

 

[lostone1413]

GOP keeps Senate control; Clinton, Carnahan win for Democrats
By The Associated Press

WASHINGTON — Republicans retained their hold on the Senate for two more years Tuesday though by a narrower margin, as Democrats boasted history-making triumphs by first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton in New York and a dead governor in Missouri.


Do a search type in Senate control Clinton years

 

[cuchulainn]

lostone1413: Bet they were if you look back they controled the Senate both terms Clinton was in

The Republicans didn't gain control of the Senate until the November 1994 election. The AWB passed two months before that, in September 1994 under a Democratic-controlled Senate. Sorry, but you're simply wrong about the Republican-controlled Senate being partly responsible for the AWB.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Just to be contrary, I will again throw out George Ryan vs. Glenn Poshard for the Governor of Illinois. 1998. Ryan is an anti-gun, corrupt, and much-hated Republican. Poshard is a pro-gun, pro-CCW Democrat.

Ryan won and proceeded to screw gun owners. I can't help but wonder how many gun owners voted for him because he had an "R" after his name.

 

[Hollowdweller]

I'd say among the voters that pro or neutral gun rights Democrats are in the majority.

One reason that there was gun control during Clinton/Gore was Columbine. This created a great pressure for it.

I think the national party knows it is a loser issue. I believe as a result of Gov. Dean's 50 state strategy you'll see a shift in this issue in the party.

I believe that they have come to understand that pandering to the gun control wishes of urbanized states with large numbers of electoral votes will not give them as much success as trying to get votes everywhere.

 

[JJpdxpinkpistols]

I believe as a result of Gov. Dean's 50 state strategy you'll see a shift in this issue in the party.

Yes, but i am a little queesy at that prospect too. the 2A is a FEDERAL guarantee of rights...not a state-by-state guarantee. until the Dem masses actually comes right out and says that in an affirmation of the positive, then I will be a bit queesy at the 50 state strategy.

We SHOULD be able to drive with a gun on our lap from Seattle to Miami with not so much as a blink of an eye. That is a guaranteed right, as I see it.

Now, *why* do I continue to vote for Dems? See, my litmus test is something different that we see on this board (see my handle if you have a doubt as to what that might be).

BUT, I personally reach out to everyone with a (D) after their name to invite them shooting, and enjoy a day in the wood poking holes in eeeeevil pieces of paper tacked to cardboard boxes.

I figure that having that fewer outright enemies can't hurt, and some of these folks on the water and soil conservation boards, and dogcatcher, and county commissioner and so on have turned out to be actual friends of the 2a.

 

[antsi]

------quote----------
I think the national party knows it is a loser issue. I believe as a result of Gov. Dean's 50 state strategy you'll see a shift in this issue in the party.
---------------------

1. Shift, as in, a real fundamentally different approach and actually advocating different kinds of policies?

2. Or, Shift, as in, pretend to change until the elections are over, then put Dianne Fienstein and Ted Kennedy back in charge of gun policy again?

I'm thinking #2 is a LOT more realistic. I'm hoping I'm wrong, because if the Democrats were genuinely pro gun that would pressure the Republicans to go even stronger in support of gun rights if they want gun owners votes. But I am not holding my breath, either.