Dept Homeland Security to use Churches to take your Arms

[funfaler]

Hey All,

Check out the program of the Department Homeland Security to use your minister to help them implement Martial law and take your arms.

http://www.ksla.com/Global/story.asp?S=6937987

 

[shooter503]

Civil rights advocates believe the amount of public cooperation during such a time of unrest may ultimately depend on how long they expect a suspension of rights might last.

But gun confiscation is exactly what happened during the state of emergency following Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, along with forced relocation.

Do these folks have their guns back yet?

 

[REOIV]

The whole Katrina fiasco opened a lot of people's eyes to gun ownership and how real gun confiscation can be.

I'm sad it took something that awful to get people to understand what we have been saying all along.

 

[ArmedBear]

I don't have a minister, and I'm not impressed by ministerial credentials. I'm damn sure I'm not the only one.

DHS is barking up the wrong tree, if they think that churches have some sort of de facto authority over independent-minded Americans.

 

[230RN]

Dr. Durell Tuberville serves as chaplain for the Shreveport Fire Department and the Caddo Sheriff's Office. Tuberville said of the clergy team's mission, "the primary thing that we say to anybody is, 'let's cooperate and get this thing over with and then we'll settle the differences once the crisis is over.'"

Which is, I daresay, how just about every dictatorship in history got established.

Another revolving-cheek "useful idiot."

Why are there so many of them?

 

[Geno]

Matches, gasoline and a pack of pompus fools willing to strike a spark. That is how I view any such cooperative. The separation of church and state means just that...separate!

 

[ServiceSoon]

Unfortunately ministers do have de facto authority over many many millions. That is one reason why I fell away from Christian teachings. It occurred to me that religion is sometimes used as a means to control the general population.

 

[Geno]

Agreed. I prefer to worship in my own home, with my own family. I have a hot-line direct to God. No one needs speak to Him on my behalf.

 

[ArmedBear]

Unfortunately ministers do have de facto authority over many many millions.

Fortunately, judging by the number of people I see on Sunday mornings at the Church of the Broken Bird, the overlap between them and gun owners is not nearly as great as DHS might imagine.

I have half a mind to get this t-shirt, now.

DO NOT LOOK HERE. IT IS OFFENSIVE!

 

[buzz_knox]

Do these folks have their guns back yet?

No. The city was refusing to return them without proof of ownership. It wouldn't do most any good, of course, as many of the firearms were improperly stored and are rusted beyond recovery.

Of course, the most choice of the firearms probably never made it into the collection areas or didn't stay long.

 

[blo0dyhatchet]

Check the link in my signature. It has 3 parts, 1st is religion, 2nd is 9/11 and 3rd is what they think will happen in the future. Its a very interesting watch if you have an open mind.

 

[Sharps-shooter]

because the government's established by the Lord, you know. And, that's what we believe in the Christian faith. That's what's stated in the scripture.

By the lord, I wonder if he means "the devil".

I realize that some denominations are of this opinion; but I was under the impression that it was not the majority opinion. Either way, if you can get people to believe it, it sure would be a convenient way to establish power. Emperor Diocletian used it. So did the Pharaohs. And all their subjects are dead now.

On the legal side of things, I wonder how "seperation of church and state" figures into this? There's always a big to-so about the churches using the government for their ends. How about the government using the churches for theirs?

 

[Technosavant]

Well, the story just refers to clergy members helping keep people calm, not necessarily assisting in a gun grab. However, if that's what they have in mind, here's what I posted on another forum about it:

1) Ain't nobody's called me yet.

2) If they think I'm going to encourage blind and stupid obedience to government hacks who can't find their rears with both hands, a map, and a native guide, they've got another thing coming.

3) If they think I'm going to even consider helping them grab guns, they're dumber than even we think they are.

4) Romans 13 does preach obedience to the government, but even our government has a higher earthly authority- the US Constitution, and I cannot in good conscience teach or preach obedience to those who would defy the Constitution in the name of the United States of America. We are ultimately a government "of, by, and for the people," and that means we ultimately obey OURSELVES. Our government is to keep order, but if their idea of "order" is to disarm the good folks, see numbers two and three.

5) I don't know about preachers from other denominations, but I am not getting paid enough to be a government stooge. I do my work for low pay because I wish to serve God. If the government wants me to serve them (note to all government officials: God's God, you're not, don't confust the two), then let's talk about the pay and benefits, and one part of those bennies needs to be good health, vision, dental, and an exemption to the 1934 NFA and 1968 GCA.

Quite honestly, the government official who thought this one up needs a whack upside their head. I recommend that people obey the law, but I will not recommend that people join in what will eventually become a suicide pact (disarming yourselves in the face of civil unrest).

 

[sojournerhome]

Texas Ministers

Well maybe not in my part of Texas.
I was surprised to learn how many mininsters
I know that have CHLs and carry all the time...

I just love Texas.

 

[Prince Yamato]

You know, "A mighty fortress is our God" in German goes,

Ein feste burg ist unser Gott
Ein gute berg und waffen.

"A mighty city is under God"
"A good (mountain) and ARMED".

How Ironic...

 

[ArmedBear]

Another revolving-cheek "useful idiot."

Why are there so many of them?

Tell me though, why does this surprise anyone? Nobody takes History any more?

 

[Standing Wolf]

Nobody takes History any more?

Yeah, but it's all about the evils perpetrated by dead white males.

 

[Geno]

Armed Bear just nailed it...people have not learn their history. But, rest assured, that same fact increases the liklihood that they will have the opportunity yet to learn from the future.

 

[Risasi]

:sigh:

Romans 13 is mostly about paying your taxes...this is an old story, let loose by Alex Jones a year ago. 'Nuff said moving on now...

 

[pax]

On the legal side of things, I wonder how "seperation of church and state" figures into this? There's always a big to-so about the churches using the government for their ends. How about the government using the churches for theirs?

Oh, the irony!

Anyone know the origin of the phrase, "separation of church and state"? Anyone ...? Bueller ...?

That phrase originally appeared in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a group of concerned members of the clergy (the Danbury Ass'n of Baptists). The clergy members had written to Jefferson, worried that the new federal government would interfere within the churches and seeking assurances that it would not.

Jefferson wrote back,

To Nehemiah Dodge and Others.
A Committee of the Danbury Baptist
Association, in the State of Connecticut

Washington, January 1, 1802


GENTLEMEN:---The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist Association, give me the highest satisfaction. My duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies between a man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith and worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for protection and blessing of the common Father and Creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurance of my high respect and esteem.

Thomas Jefferson

pax

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Please do not base your judgement of Christianity or of all scholars on the few bad examples that the socialist-media (pardon the redundancy) prop forth as both knowledgeable and speaking for all.

Resistanct to Tyranny is Obedience to God

proposed motto for the Great Seal of the United States, by Jeffeson and Franklin.

'Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense?

Fear is the passion of slaves.

Guard with jealous attention public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you inevitably ruined.

PATRICK HENRY

But Henry also said...,

I have disposed of all my property to my family. There is one thing more I wish I could give to them, and that is the Christian religion.

Also...,

The Bible is worth all the other books which have ever been printed.

And of course...,

Give me liberty, or give me death!

An extremely devout Christian statesman would agree with us. So perhaps the problem is not with the book or what it actually says..., the problem is with those who pretend to know and teach what it says.

Kinda like the Constitution and 2nd Amendment. There are those who claim it's a group right, and fail to recognize their own oxymoron (or perhaps intend to confuse the public). So perhaps we could study the Bible, not simply read it, as we have studied our own Contsitution, to glean what the meaning of the words truly are?

LD

 

[kungfuhippie]

My church teaches to obey the law, that doesn't mean obey the idiots that seek to take away my rights. MY church has a long history of having people infringe on it's rights and will not start infringing on the rights of others. If the SHTF I would be sitting just fine with good supplies and lots of ammo to defend freedom and get by just fine. And no-one from my church would try to disarm me. If some hack from another church comes by seeking to disarm me he will be surprised just how little respect I have for him.

 

[JWarren]

Do these folks have their guns back yet?

You all should read last month's America's First Freedom (NRA magazine).

The cover photo is a horribly rusted revolver.

As you read the article, you learn that MANY revolvers were discovered in the weapons cache's (by the NRA's officials that are trying to sort this out) that have had the cylinder opened and STOMPED ON-- thereby making the gun unable to be fired.


Make sure everyone gets this fact solid:

In many cases, N.O. confiscations were not simply taking the firearms temporarily (which is still WRONG)-- but it was DESTROYING your property on the spot in front of you.


The evidence now supports the eye-witness accounts.


-- John

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Dude . . . Wait . . . What . . . ?

Mis-quotes Heston:

Heston held up his antique rifle and told the crowd in his Moses-like voice, "over my cold, dead hands."

Over my cold, dead hands . . . ?

-

Cites change in law:

U.S. Troops also arrived, something far easier to do now, thanks to last year's elimination of the 1878 Posse Comitatus act, which had forbid regular U.S. Army troops from policing on American soil.

Sorry, I must have missed this.

Was Posse Comitatus repealed?

-

Funky interpretation of scritpture:

. . . "because the government's established by the Lord, you know. And, that's what we believe in the Christian faith. That's what's stated in the scripture."

Now, it's been a few years since I did a cover-to-cover pass of the Good Book, but that's not how I remember it. The governments of man and the laws of man are entirely of man, even though they be based on sacred scripture. I think it's clear enough from history that governments are not established by deities.

-

For the discerning reader, and those with a better acquaintence with the events described: is there any part of that article that can be simply read as fact?

 

[fletcher]

I'm not quite sure what to make of this. It almost seems like a joke. They seriously can't expect clergy to make an impact on the trouble-makers, especially in the densely populated areas.

I do not go to church, and even if I did, my guns would stay right where they are regardless of what the pastor said.

Sorry, I must have missed this.

Was Posse Comitatus repealed?

I was thinking the same thing - if so, it was done REAL quietly. Time for some research.
EDIT2: I stand corrected \/. Looks like it was just severely crippled. Add that to my list of reasons why I don't care for Bush.