Desert Southwest Mule Deer

[Quoheleth]

My brother is moving to deep southeast CA later this summer and has heard stories of the monster mulies that grow down there in the desert. He hasn't hunted in 10+ years, but the stories have his trigger finger twitching a bit.

Dad died and left his guns to us. Brother's been at Seminary for the past 4 years so I kept them all at my house, including the old Marlin 336 in .30-30. My brother is thinking he may want to reacquire the .30-30 for these Mulies.

So, two questions for you: One, is an unaltered Marlin 336 (this is an older gun but does have the safety) CA approved for hunting? Two, is a .30-30 a good choice for mule deer in that part of the US? I know nothing about animal size, average length of shots, etc., but from what I've heard compared to the central Texas deer we used to hunt (80lbs is a big deer) the Mulies are pretty good sized.

While I don't mind him taking the gun - it's half his - I don't want him undergunned. Yes, I know the venerable "Thuddy Thuddy" has taken more North America game than probably any other centerfire rifle, but there is a difference between "it'll work" and "plenty of gun." I don't think he needs a .338 Magnum, but I'm thinking a .308 or 7mm-08 would be a more useful gun for him than the old Marlin.

Thoughts?

Q

 

[Blackrock]

Most of your desert mulie shots are going to be out past 100 yards so the 30-30 while adequate cartridge wise wouldn't be the best choice as far as long range. Put a scope on it and it could work, But...! There are some guys that hunt mulies here in AZ near Yuma on the river bottoms from a 'Hide' but mostly it's open country longer range hunting.

Both guns you mentioned with good 3x9 optics would work.

 

[ArmedBear]

My brother is moving to deep southeast CA later this summer

Ugh!

from what I've heard compared to the central Texas deer we used to hunt (80lbs is a big deer) the Mulies are pretty good sized.

85 lbs.

With limited vegetation, expect some long shots -- not always, but always a possibility. .270 with a scope on a relatively light rifle would be great. OTOH, people do bowhunt. Limited water sources can localize deer.

 

[oneounceload]

Anything from 6.5 and up will work well for mulies. Shots CAN be long, but most I have taken were under 200 yards, with several under 100. If you find a spring, or even a seep, you can locate yourself within any legal distance for a closer shot. If there are any alfalfa farms in the area, you'll find them there.

 

[MCgunner]

The quarter bores (smaller than 6.5) are IDEAL IMHO for desert mulies out to as far as I want to shoot at one. The 6mms will work. They're not much more than big whitetail. I took one in the mountains of SE New Mexico, field dressed north of 200 lbs. I did use a 7 mag, but my .257 would have been okay, there, but running out of juice fast at 370 yards. I feel confident it would have tagged that mulie, though, still putting up about 1200 ft lbs out at that range with my handloads. The big 7 had no problem.

The mulies I've seen in the Texas desert were good sized animals. I never hunted that lease during the short mule deer season here, though. I shot 150 lb whitetails out there, though. It's funny that hill country deer are so small, yet out in the arid desert where you'd think they'd be hurting, they actually get up well over 100 lbs, though nothing like those 1400 lb white tail elk those mid west guys brag about. I do know there is some cross breeding between species out there and have often wondered if maybe the whitetail out there have enough mulie genetics to make a difference. They don't look like mulies, though, in every way a whitetail, at least the whitetail I've seen and shot out there.

The trans pecos has some of the best hunting in all of Texas and a lot of Texas hunters don't know that. I loved hunting that lease out there and regretted dropping it, but that hunting club was getting pretty expensive.

 

[ArmedBear]

California mule deer are not like the monster mulies of northern Utah, southern Idaho, etc. AFAIK they're different species.

Scouting around east of San Diego, my friend and I once briefly mistook a large fleeing jackrabbit for a doe running into the woods.

 

[MCgunner]

Texas desert mulies are a different subspecies from the rocky mountain variety I hunted in the mountains of New Mexico. They don't get quite as big in the desert, but they're still bigger than your average whitetail in the same habitat.

 

[Leanwolf]

It's been many years since I hunted in southeast Calif., but if I were to hunt there again, I'd use my .280 Remington, or my .308 Win. From what I remember, there were many areas where a 'scoped rifle was more untilitarian than a .30-30 ... and I'm a fan of the .30-30. (The first deer I ever killed in Calif., was in the southern Sierra using my Win. 94 .30-30W.)



.25-05, .260 Rem., 270 Win., .280 Rem., 7mm-08, 7x57mm, .308 Win., .30-06. They'll all get the job done in Calif., if the person using them knows how to shoot well.

Good luck to your brother on his hunt.

L.W.

 

[UpTheIrons]

Day-Um, Q!

You ain't lyin' about that deep southeast Kali bit! What did your brother do to tick of Uncle Jerry that he's not coming back to Texas?

Anyhow, FWIW, GunWiki says there ain't no long gun "approval list" in California. As long as it is a legal long gun, it is OK. This is exepting "assault" weapons, which they apparently deem as different animals entirely.
http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/LegalCaliforniaApprovalInformation

As to the effectiveness of the .30-30 on mulies, I have no answer other than to say I have been impressed with the range extension of the 160 gr. Hornady LeverEvolution ammo. My 50-year-old '94 (complete with side-mount scope) has just had its range extended at least 50 yards with this stuff.

 

[MachIVshooter]

California mule deer are not like the monster mulies of northern Utah, southern Idaho, etc. AFAIK they're different species

.

Agreed. I've seen some big bucks up North here (CO) and in Wyoming as well, that were the size of cow elk (~400 lb). One of our camp bagged a 340 pound 5x5 in Steamboat springs a few years back.

The quarter bores (smaller than 6.5) are IDEAL IMHO for desert mulies out to as far as I want to shoot at one.

+1

Remington 700 BDL in .25-06 topped with a Leupold VX-III 4.5-14x is my primary rig, backed up by a Ruger M77 6mm Rem. in case the Remmy tumbles down a mountain or somesuch.

 

[exbiologist]

Lots of good suggestions on guns, I'll just weigh in on the mule deer hunting in California. First, if your brother wants a tag, applications are due June 2nd and the desert tags are somewhat limited.
There are very good bucks to be had out there, but the hunter success averages in the single digits! The few bucks that are out there, can get huge(for California), as hunters kill around 5% of the available bucks per year. That's on par with the very best trophy units in Utah, Colorado and Arizona.
Lastly, there are several subspecies of mule deer in California. No other western state has the variety of subspecies that California has. There are Rocky Mountain Mule Deer in the Eastern Sierras, California Mule Deer from the Western Sierras to Central and Southern California, Desert Mule Deer in a small part of the Mojave, but the deer that your brother may be hunting is the Southern Mule Deer. There are two other subspecies that had been previously described, but modern taxonomy and DNA evidence suggests there is no real difference in the Inyo and Burro Mule Deer.

 

[T.R.]

What kind of physical shape is he in?

If he is over age 50 & 50 lbs overweight, he should be looking for a long range rifle such as 25-06 or 270.

But if he is in reasonable shape, the 30-30 carbine will do quite well for shots of 175 yards or less. The old fashioned 170 grain softnose bullet doesn't bounce off any animal it strikes. 30-30 kills far better than mere numbers on paper would suggest.

TR

 

[ants]

I grew up in that area.

Exactly where is your brother going to live? 'Southeast California' covers a rather large area, in fact it's huge. Other than Imperial Valley and Coachella Valley and the Colorado River, it's mostly a series of basin valleys divided by barren ranges. It would help to know exactly where he's going to live and hunt. There are sparsely scattered deer among the desert mountains, but nobody really hunts them. Too few and far between. And they're tough and taste awful.

Unless your idea of SE California is around San Jac and Santa Rosa mountains, all the way down to Anza Borrego. But that seems west to me. I guess it's a matter of perspective.

No, the mule deer in that area are not big. In fact, they're kinda small and skinny, and black as the ace of spades. And if he isn't familiar with their daily habits, he better practice his long shots. You have to work for the privilege of shooting at them, and they generally won't let you get too close.

And be patient about getting a tag. The allocations have been very, very low for 3 or 4 decades. In fact, he might enjoy dove hunting better.

 

[nastynatesfish]

the last three buck ive shot have all been over 200lbs dressed out. i shoot a 7mm mag. i live in east arizona but the lay of the land is about the same. rolling hills and canyons. my last deer was shot at 430 and the two prior where at just about 300yds