Detonics .45

[NYTrooper]

Perhaps one of you Detonics gurus out there can help me out.

I purchased a "Detonics .45" years ago; probably in the early 80's. Serial No. 4894. Nowhere on the weapon or the folder that accompanied it, is it referred to as a "Combat Master". Perhaps this weapon preceded the Combat Master?

The gun was consistently unreliable. Frequent failures to feed being the most common. As a result it was never used much.

I then heard through the grapevine, years later that there had been some catastrophic failure of the weapon and it was not considered safe.

Does anyone have any knowledge of what exactly I have, the last issue above and/or a gunsmith who might be a good choice to get it working?

Thanks

 

[MICHAEL T]

Mine is a early Bellevue Washington state pistol It is totally reliable . These were pretty much a custom pistol in those days . The compacts 1911 of to day used the lessons learned back then . I have never fired a unreliable older Detonics Like any pistol guess might be a few out their

I then heard through the grapevine, years later that there had been some catastrophic failure of the weapon and it was not considered safe.

I have never heard this The only reason I don't carry mine as much today is lot lighter compacts on market
I would replace the recoil spring and mag springs with a new springs by wolff Have the extractor tension checked and adjusted if needed You can do this directions can be found on 1911 boards
Also this pistol requires a good locked wrist and grip Limp wristing will cause problems

 

[markallen]

Sounds like a MC1 Detonics.
These are the same as the Combat Master, Although they are not marked on the slide as a Combat Master.
The internals, all parts, components, and the fit are the same as the Combat Master. The only difference is the finish. If you have a MC1, it will have a satin/ bead blasted finish, instead of the polished slide that the Combat Mater has.
I have a MC1. Everything is the same as a Combat Master MK VI, except the satin finish. Mine had been 100% reliable from day one.
I've never heard of junk Detonics except for the pocket nine.

[/IMG]

 

[weisse52]

The gun was consistently unreliable. Frequent failures to feed being the most common. As a result it was never used much.

I had one in the late 70's....it stunk.

 

[NYTrooper]

Mine is nicely blued, so apparently it's not an MCI version.

The booklet that came with the gun showed that is was manufactured in Seattle by Detonics.

Thanks

 

[NYTrooper]

Thanks much. Will give all of that a try.

 

[NYTrooper]

Yeh, that's the reason I stopped using mine. Maybe there's still hope!!! Any extra magazines you might want to part with??

 

[NG VI]

Quick Detonics question, what is with the rear sight placement? Is there some advantage to it that I can't understand?

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Quick Detonics question, what is with the rear sight placement?

I'm going from memory of something I read. Note the accompanying relief or step-down cut in the slide behind the sight, the high spur on the hammer and the shortened grip safety. Supposedly this makes thumb cocking the hammer for Condition Two carry easier. The cut allows you to sweep your thumb over the back of the slide.

 

[LancerMW]

well thats a dumb reason to mone the sights foward

 

[Old Fuff]

The Lone Haranguer has the right answer.

During the early days of the company, someone placed a large order for some pistols, provided they were modified to what became an unpopular configuration. For whatever reason, possibly including a negative attitude toward cocked & locked pocket carry, this is what they wanted - and got.

While few have seemed to use hammer-down carry with these pistols, it does add an option. As for the shortened sight radius - given what the gun is, and how it's used - I don't think it matters.

 

[Tom Fury]

I read somewhere that the sight thing had to do with a certain big city police dept. who were going to order a bunch who preferred it that way...Maybe just a folktale. My
MK VII was consistently reliable. Unfortunately sold to keep solvent when laid up after traffic accident.
Cheers, TF

 

[ExtremeShot]

FYI...Detonics is back in business just a few miles away from me in Millstadt, IL. Give them a call. Here is what Google shows for their contact info:

609 South Breese Street
Millstadt, IL 62260-2019
(618) 476-3200

 

[JFrame]

Just as a point of clarification for this thread -- at least with the original Bellevue Detonics, the Mk V was called the "Combat Master," and the Mk VI was the "Combat Professional" (the only difference I'm aware of is that the V had a fixed rear sight, and the VI was adjustable).

.

 

[Old Fuff]

There is an old saying within the gun industry:

Company's come and company's go - but tools go on forever.

Detonics has had many owners, but the basic product is a good one, and as long as they're is a market for it someone will make it.

All of the past and currrent ultra-short 1911 platform pistols suffer from excessive slide velocity caused by the loss of weight and mass that comes when a standard length slide is cut back. Add to this a shortened recoil spring tunnel and obvious problems arise. The answer is in the design of a multi-spring recoil system, and the material specifications of the steel used in the springs. It is also important to change the springs more often then might otherwise be necessary.

The strength of the magazine spring is also critical, because the slide cycles so much faster the magazine spring has less time to position the next cartridge as the slide runs forward. The Detonics design is a little bit different then most if not all later ones, but I think that most of the bugs have been worked out. Now reliability depends on the quality of how it's made.

 

[Drail]

I believe the sight location was to allow the user to cock the hammer after the draw. The grip safety on these guns is non functional. Also carrying with the hammer down reduces snagging on drawing. Everyone I know that carried one left the hammer down until the last second. Full strength mag springs are absolutely required with these guns as well as a properly tuned extractor. This is (in my opinion) a last ditch back up weapon.

 

[NG VI]

Huh. Wonderful variety in firearms, interesting ways different designs innovate to try to deal with real or imagined issues, and the way the mechanical is modified to fit different styles of training.

 

[Browns Fan]

I have a detonics 9-11-01 that was made in Georgia, and it is very reliable.

 

[PigButtons]

FTF fix

I purchased an MC-1 a few months ago and it too had a FTF problem, along with a few others. I polished the feed ramp and the throat on the barrel and it went from 1 out of 20, especially the last round in the mag, to ZERO. I now have 400 to 500 rounds through it without a failure of any kind.

www.victoryarms.com has replacement springs that are to factory specs. The newer technology springs for the Detonics will last 7000 plus rounds. Yes that is 3 zeros there. There are lots of posts on the durability testing of these recoil springs if you look around. The Wolff springs will not hold up more than about 500 or 600 so the extra few dollars to get the good ones is money well spent. Since the timing of the slide is so critical to the feed, the new springs may solve some of that too. If that serial # is what you say it is that's an old unit and all of the springs should be replaced.

There are factory look alike mags out there at http://www.ammoclip.com/D/detonics.htm but supplies are hit and miss.

My Detonics is my favorite gun of all and I carry it always and never doubt that it will perform.

 

[Blade814]

thanks for the tip. I have a few Detonics have collected them for years. When they were making them in Pendergrass and did the range test I was there.

 

[PigButtons]

I've spent more than three months studying on the web about Detonics and have never read anything from anyone reputable that they are unsafe. Yours is old enough to have some collectors looking at it with interest, i.e. valuable.

There is a yahoo group just for Detonics owners where one or more of the original smiths for the company moderate. They don't do work themselves and it takes about 3 months to get accepted to the group, (no idea why), but someone there can point you in the right direction if you need repairs made.

Old Fuff
I wish i had your knowledge, and I respect it a great deal, but...
It is not the weight of the slide that makes the difference in the compacts, at least not with the Detonics. My SS slide weighs the same as my full size steel RIA 1911. The unloaded gun is 32oz. It is the shorter, therefore faster cycle, as you correctly stated above, that makes them so finicky with timing.
Again, I've read hundreds of your posts and you have to be my favorite poster. Thanks for all that you do for us young heads full of mush.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

well thats a dumb reason to [move] the sights foward

I thought so, too, but a sizable number of people are apprehensive about Condition One ("cocked and locked") carry. Look at the number and length of threads in this forum alone (like this one)about it. The maker is just addressing a perceived market niche.

 

[legion3]

Combatmaster - On the small screen!

 

[Old Fuff]

The Old Fuff is at a bit of a loss as to how you can cut 2-inches off of the front end of a slide, move the rear sight forward and make a cut at the back, and not reduce the weight...

Anyway, years ago the designer had tests made with both a Government Model Colt and a Detonics where both were clamped in a fixture and fired while photographed using a special high-speed movie camera. By counting the frames he determined that the Detonics slide cycled about 1/3 faster then the Colt. This is also generally true of all the ultra-short 1911 style pistols that have a linked barrel.

Unlike most other pistols of this kind, The Detonics is based on the Government Model slide and frame, rather then the Commander. The Commander has a deeper recoil spring tunnel, but for reasons I won't go into this doesn't become an issue with the Detonics.

There are however 3 factors that affect the operation and reliability of these small pistols as a class.

1. The slide run-up, which is the distance from the slide's rearmost position from which it starts forward, to the back of the magazine well. If, as is most often the case, it is short then the slide has less distance to travel to where it starts stripping the next round out of the magazine.

2. The slide's higher speed as it cycles.

3. The design of the recoil spring system, and the material used in the springs.

4. The radius on the bottom of the firing pin plate (or "stop") That's one I'll let you think about.

 

[PigButtons]

Old Fuff
As usual you are right. The earlier Detonics like the one in the OP is a cut down Caspian frame and slide. There is some weight added back to allow for the coned barrel fitting. The newer fully built from scratch frames and slides are about a 64th thicker in the slide and of slightly denser material. That said there is still about an ounce difference, the Detonics slide being lighter.

For others; don't doubt the Fuff.

As far as the firing pin plate (stop) radius, hope this is right, the more the radius the later in the cycle it contacts the hammer, which provides a lot of slowing down of the inertia.