Difference in M38, M44, 91/30 Mosin Nagants?

[Kestrel]

I have a M39 Finnish Mosin Nagant and a 91/59 Russian carbine. Now I'm thinking about adding another to my collection. (Wow, these are really a lot of gun for the money...)

Anyway, I've seen some M38s and M44s advertised for $59. What is the difference in these and 91/30s, 91/59, etc?

Thanks for any help,
Steve

 

[444]

I may be wrong on this, but I believe an M44 is a carbine version of the 91/30 with a folding bayonet. The M38 is a carbine version of the 91/30 without a folding bayonet.

 

[Kestrel]

I thought the 91/59 was a cut down version of the 91/30?

 

[Brigrat]

I've been looking at a refurbished M44 for a while now, are they good, reliable and accurate? I am curious about this carbine as a truck gun, I was going to put a Marlin 30-30 in the toolbox, but thought if an M44 in good condition was reliable and accurate, I would give it a try?

 

[Feanaro]

Steve: AFAIK, the differences go like so. 91/30 is long, uses a detachable bayonet and comes in either hex or round reciever types. The M38 model is a carbine version that also uses a detachable bayonet. The M44 is a carbine version with a semi-permanently(pretty much have to weld the SOB off) mounted bayonet that can be folded to the side. The 91/59 that you own is a cut down(Again, AFAIK) 91/30. No real functional differences that I know of.

Brigrat: the Mosin is nothing if not reliable. It's highly rugged and it takes a lot to gum it up. Beat it up, slog it through the trenches and leave it in the snow. It'll still work. They are also very accurate if they are still in good condition. They handle very well, especially the '38 model. The kick is a little high on the carbine verions, compared to most rifles, but nothing massive. The muzzle flash is awesome to behold though. The only possible gripe I could have against the Mosin series is that the safety is a wee bit hard to work. I am no lumber-jack but I am not a flabby nerd either and the safety is hard to pull back and lock into place.

 

[Redlg155]

I agree with the safety being a bit hard to engage.

Still, for a truck gun this isn't a real concern. You could always chamber a round immediately before use. I wouldn't want ANY loaded weapon bouncing around in a truck regardless of the safety system.

Good Shooting
Red

 

[GD]

I like the balance of a M91/30. The carbines are fun to shoot but they don't feel as good as a M91/30. The carbines are also known for their muzzle blast and recoil.
I have never seen a bayonet for a M38. The M91/30 bayonets will not fit on a M38.
Your Finnish M39 is probably the best Mosin ever made. The M91/59s are known to be pretty accurate.
At todays prices, I would get one of each and try them all out. The resale of these rifles should be easy.

 

[GLOCKT]

If you go to;
www.aztecguns.com
and go to the rifle section to the left it will show you the 3 variants of M38-M44 and the 91/30.

 

[DMK]

These pictures show some of the differences between the M38 and the 91/59.

The M44 looks just like the M38 except that it has the permanently mounted bayonette, a groove in the stock where the bayonette folds and a slightly different front sight base.

The 91/30 looks just like the 91/59 except has a longer barrel, longer front handguard and has an unmolested rear sight.

For more details, browse around these sites:

http://www.mosin-nagant.net/

http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/

http://www.surplusrifle.com/

 

[Kestrel]

Unless I'm overlooking something, it appears that there is very little difference between the M38 and the 91/59. Surely there is something other than the rear sight? I don't really see anything else.

Steve

 

[DMK]

Unless I'm overlooking something, it appears that there is very little difference between the M38 and the 91/59. Surely there is something other than the rear sight? I don't really see anything else.

Realically, that's it. The top handguard is a little different because the rear sight base is longer and there may be a few cosmetic differences in the lower stock because it's cut down from a longer 91/30 rifle stock.

The biggest difference between the 91/59 and the 1938 is quality. On average, the 91/59s have better bores and better machining than the 1938s. This is because they were rebuilt in the early 60s during a time of relative peace. There was no immediate need to rush these rifles through manufacturing and get them in service like was the case with 1938s built during WWII. There are a few 91/59s that have bad bores, but they are not common. It seems that most of these carbines were made from unissued 91/30s and of those rifles did have bad barrels, most were replaced during the rearsenal process.

 

[Kalos]

There's a difference in when, why, and how they were made, mostly. The 38's were made starting in 1938 for second line troops--engineers and all that lot that traditionally got carbines. It was built from the beginning as a carbine, and was never anything else. IIRC, I've heard that a lot of these are rather heavily worn from war use, but YMMV.

The 91/59, on the other hand, was made after the war by cutting down 91/30s to carbine length and slapping them in a new stock. These were made, as I recall, for internal security forces, police and the like. And I'll also mention that I've heard nothing but good about these... AIM has them still in arsenal wrap for $100 or so.

 

[DMK]

cutting down 91/30s to carbine length and slapping them in a new stock.

Actually Kalos, the Russians didn't even give them new stocks. The armorers cut down and refinished the rifles stocks they had.

 

[Kalos]

Ahh, my mistake--I was actually thinking that they slapped them in extra M44/M38 stocks that they had laying about.

 

[Omega_7]

I have a Finnish SKY Nagant heavy barrel

This is one heavy duty gun! I am very interested in collecting the carbines if I like them. I will scope them, sight them in and gather some ammo and strippers, I plan to get quite a few, for shall we say, loaner guns? They are the best rifle bargain I have ever seen, and hard hitting as well. They would even make fine brush deer guns IMO. There are factory JSPs available for this caliber.

 

[Omega_7]

Mine was used by Finnish security forces and has the hex receiver

Like this:
http://www.surplusrifle.com/russiannagant/graphics/hex/l/hex.gif

It's very accurate and the only disappointment was the somewhat beaten up stock. The action is tight and the barrel is decent. It is a very heavy gun however.

 

[ashesfrom702]

mosin nagant pros and cons

I have a m91-30, and its been somewhat reliable. here are some pros and cons

cons
they stored these rifles for many years. They packed the barrels, and recievers with a wax like substance called cosmoline. Make sure that you get 100% of this out before firing gun. If you shoot a hundred or so round out of it, The wax becomes hard like wood glue, and is impossible to get out. I wish I would have known this before, since I spent about 8 hours cleaning it after using.

Corrosive ammo. You must clean your rifle after every shooting, otherwise the corrosive ammo will rust, and pit the inside of your barrel making it dangerous to shoot.

the kick- after shooting 60 of so shots, your shoulder starts hurting like hell. Im no sissy either. This gun has a completly straight stock, and you feel it!


pros
Very accurate. I hit 1-inch bullseyes at 100 yards with iron sights. Cant do that with any .22

Very powerful- Good for wild boar hunting

Awesome piece of history- They say that the mosin-nagant killed more soldiers in wwii than any other rifle......

 

[deadeye1122]

I have a 1941 Izzy M38 in a M44 laminate stock. Note the inlet just below the rear sight for the bayonet. Yes kicks like a mule with 203 gr brown bear and a steel butt plate. And yes the muzzle blast is awesome, especially close to dusk.


sorry all I cant add my pic. Will work on it after work.

 

[deadeye1122]

hope this works. If not check my threads. Pics there. Evidently I can't post attachments that have been previous posted.

 

[Shadow 7D]

just to point this out, but the thread is 6 years old

Wish I could find them for that price now