Differences I noticed Between Gen4 G19 and Gen2 G19

Status
Not open for further replies.
If they can't explain why your glock is doing something, they will probably say its normal. I don't thing glock would be willing to replace every defective pistol. Too much time and money. Hopefully they don't send it back saying there is nothing wrong with it.
 
I'm hoping that too. We'll see what they do, I'll reserve judgment until then. If it does come back doing the same thing they'll be getting it back and they can keep it, at that point, I'll be done with Gen 4 Glocks. Maybe I can talk them into sending me the oldest gen 3 19 in their inventory or something. All that will have to wait until the Gen 4 comes back though so I can see what the deal is.
 
Called Glock today at 113 PST (413pm EST) to check on the pistol and see if it's been looked at yet. I was told that it had been looked at and they did find a problem. The man I spoke with read off the notes in the system and said it had been transferred to the warranty manager, who will be out of the office until Tuesday. The guy I talked with didn't know exactly what having it transferred to the warranty manager meant and didn't want to speculate and I don't blame him. He said the Austrians had just visited the plant and may have looked at the gun, in any case it appears they were able to reproduce the problem, or it would have been no faults noted and sent back instead of being sent to the warranty manager. So until I call sometime next week I won't know exactly what they found or what they're going to do about it. I asked the guy I talked to if there was some way to note in the system that if this does result in the pistol being replaced could they NOT send it to the FFL nearest to me, he said I'd have to talk to the warranty manager about that. I guess that's all until next week.
 
That's very interesting that the guys from Austria may have looked at your gun. They probably switched parts that were known to work properly until they could isolate the exact parts on your gun that were causing the problem.

Thanks for the update.

If it does get replaced, in most states they can send it straight to your house with adult(21+) signature required. I think in CA, IL, NJ, and NY it has to be sent to an FFL.
 
Last edited:
I hope they did look at it and know how to fix it, but at this point it's still speculation to say certainly one way or the other that the Austrians have seen it. The guy said they were around though and may have taken a look at it, so I can hope. I still have no idea if they've managed to fix the gun either, it could end up being replaced because there is no fix, it could end up being a simple fix. The only thing I can definitively say at this point is the problem has been confirmed and reproduced by Glock and that something is being done about it. Hopefully they are able to isolate a cause and institute a solution, and the easier the solution, the better. Hopefully I'll know more soon.
 
I looked further at my spent casings from my G27 which has erratic ejection and noticed something I hadn't before. With my G23 casings, the extractor and ejector markings are very consistent relative to the firing pin mark. With my G27 casings this is not so. The G27 casings appear to turn counterclockwise when viewing the headstamp some time after the round has fired and the slide begins rearward movement and before the time that the ejector first contacts the casing. The ejector and extractor markings are also very inconsistent. On some, the ejector actually drags across the edge of the primer. On others the extractor is barely engaging the rim and the ejector marking is much higher, so the casing is actually dropping lower in the gun and the only thing that stops it is the magazine.

G23 consistent ejection, spent casing drawing: http://tinypic.com/r/34gkrj4/7
G27 erratic ejection, spent casing drawing: http://tinypic.com/r/1zdtdkw/7

Also I forgot to include in the G27 drawing, the scrape/dent at the case mouth appears at about the 4 o'clock position as would be seen in the picture.

My conclusion is that in my G27 which has erratic ejection, the extractor is not maintaining consistent tension on the rim of the spent casing. I won't speculate as to the reason.
 
Last edited:
Called Glock today at 1032 PST (132 EST) and talked to the guy who test fired my gun. He said they were able to reproduce the problem I described across all ammunitions, so he replaced the ejector, which has a different profile and is not as pointed as the original, so it has more contact area. I also mentioned the extractor plunger getting beat up and the case mouths being smashed in and scraped around the circumference. He said the wear on the extractor plunger can happen but the wear on mine was excessive for the amount of rounds fired and is going to replace that too. While I was explaining what happened to the brass he took a look at the slide and said he could see a lot of brass on the ejection port, but he'd have to take a look at some of the brass fired from the gun to see what I'm talking about. That may well be fixed by the new ejector though. He's put some bullets through it and thinks it has been fixed, but he still needs to run some different weight bullets through it to make sure that the ejector was the issue, then if it's fixed, they should be sending it back within a week or so.
 
GLOCK, Inc. U.S.A.

GLOCK, Inc. P.O. Box 369
Smyrna, Georgia 30081 U.S.A.Fax. (770) 433-8719
Tel. (770) 432-1202

Dear GLOCK Armorer:

On September 6, 2011, GLOCK Inc. will begin voluntarily exchanging the recoil spring assembly (RSA) on its new Gen4 pistols shipped since 2009 GLOCK’s product development team has modified various elements of the RSA to ensure each pistol’s performance meets the company’s demanding standards.

With several variations of the RSA in the market today, GLOCK’s goal with this voluntary exchange is to standardize the RSA to gain the best possible performance in each pistol.

Armorers should note that Gen4 G26 and G27 models will not require a modified recoil spring.
The new RSA’s all have unique markings on the base of the part. The enclosed chart is designed to help you readily identify the correct RSA for your pistol.

Unless a directive is mandated by your agency or your store, the replacement of the Gen4 pistol’s RSA can be performed as part of the regular field-strip process. Agencies or Consumer’s wishing to participate in the exchange program at no charge are urged to call 1-877-745-8523 to order their new RSA.

For more information on the details of the exchange program, visit www.TEAMGLOCK.com.
Click to expand...

Word is that you can simply E-Mail them this information:

[email protected]

Serial #
Model
Name
Physical Address
Telephone
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Good for people to know, but the updated RSA they sent me had no effect on the problem I was having. At this point it looks like the ejector was the guilty party. I had replaced the original "03" RSA with the "043" RSA Glock sent me, as well as trying the original, a Lone Wolf, and an updated Glock extractor, and 2 different extractor plunger assemblies (the original and White Sound HRED) with no results. The problem occurred regardless of shooter or ammunition brand, type, or weight. It seems that it is all getting fixed and worked out though. Hopefully I'll have the gun back within the next week or two and I'll be able to try again.
 
Glock's warranty dept manager called me today at 125 PST (425 EST) to tell me he tried the pistol today with about 240rds of assorted ammo and he's confident the problem has been resolved by replacing the ejector. He shot some 115gr Blazer, 124gr +p hardball, and some 147gr and didn't have any of the erratic ejections to the front or left, everything kicked out to the right, with one brushing off his right elbow. One is better than 3/4 of the magazine. None in the face, none to the left, none to the front. He's going to try to get it dropped with Fedex in time to get it back before this weekend. So hopefully I'll get it in time to maybe go shooting this weekend. I've only got 100rds of WWB 115gr FMJ, 50rds American Eagle 124gr FMJ, 50rds American Eagle 115gr FMJ, 50rds Remington UMC Value Pack 115gr FMJ, and 25rds of Winchester "Personal Protection" 147gr JHP left. So as soon as I can after I get the gun I'll try to make it out and try out the fix. It may not happen this weekend though, we'll see when I get it back and when I can make it out.
 
Got the pistol back today at 1120 PST. They shipped it back pretty fast. I think it was overnighted. It did come back missing the one magazine I sent it in with, but that's why I only sent one. I called Glock and they said they're sending a replacement, it should be here in 5-10 business days. I still haven't had any difficulty contacting people at Glock since my talk with Mr. Mathis. I should be able to get out and try the gun within the next week, but I don't know if I'll be able to do it this weekend.
 
The new ejector has a radically different profile from the old one. The old on was very pointed, and bent slightly towards the center line of the pistol. The new one is very blunted on the front and is twisted as well as slightly bent towards the center. I uploaded some pics and a real quick video. I also threw two of the older pics in there for comparison because Glock threw away the old one by the time I asked about it.

http://s1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa348/SGTDuffman/Glock Fixes/Ejector Fix/
 
Thanks for the update. I wonder if Glock has redesigned the 9mm ejector, if they modified one specifically for your pistol, or if that's an older design 9mm ejector.
 
Looks like a redesign to me. The Gen 2 had one very similar if not the same as the "old" one on the Gen 4, so I don't think it's an old design. This "new" one does not appear to have been ground or modified in any way, you can still kind of see the casting marks on the front of it in one of the pictures. I don't think it has been done specifically for me for the same reasons. That would be a hell of an expense to cast 1 part for 1 person.

I think this is their fix for the Gen 4 19s with ejection/extraction issues. They've redesigned every other part involved in ejection and extraction from the looks of it. They've redone the RSA's 5 times, and the new extractor was different than the one it came with, and now the ejectors are also different. The extractor depressor plunger change didn't effect anything. If there's still a problem they're going to be in a world of hurt. They've done about all the parts replacement they can do as far as ejection/extraction, it starts being a matter of slide and frame after that.
 
Speaking of the LWD extractors, I believe LoneWolf may actually be confused as to which extractor is which between 9mm and .40. The 9mm extractor is supposed to have a parallel hook like your Glock-made 9mm extractors. The .40 extractor is supposed to have a tilted 5 degree hook like your LoneWolf extractor. I looked at my LoneWolf .40 extractor and it has a parallel hook, my Glock-made .40 extractors have a tilted 5 degree hook like your LoneWolf extractor.

Yours is marked "4" as the LoneWolf website says the 9mm extractor should be(part#1895). Mine is marked "3", as their website says the .40 extractor should be(part#1899).

I've emailed LoneWolf's Armorer email address about this and I'm waiting for a response.

See this diagram from an Armorer's Manual: http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14630188&postcount=16

From the newest Armorer's Manual, apparently the 10mm now use the 5 degree hook as well, leaving only .380 and 9mm with the parallel hook.
 
Last edited:
Ya but the part number and code stamped on the part may not be synonymous. I think the numbers stamped on the Glock extractors are vendor codes not necessarily part numbers. That's the risk you take with aftermarket parts I guess, and why I'm hesitant to have aftermarket parts in a concealed carry gun. The average person would have no way to tell if that is a stock part or not, even a Glock aficionado probably wouldn't know the difference, but you better believe the defense's expert firearms witness will. Too much liability for me. It may not even be the right part for the gun.
 
Should be able to finally get out and test fire the Glock tomorrow. The replacement magazine Glock said they would send on the 9th still has not arrived though. They said 5-10 business days, today was the 11th day, so I dunno. I still have 4 magazines to use, but it would be disappointing to find I've slipped through the cracks again. I'll give that a few more days before I call them. Hopefully I'll have some good news after this test fire.
 
Another person tried the new ejector and said it worked for him: http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1369607 (post #66 is his update)

I'm hoping they'll make a similar ejector for .40. A guy with a Gen3 G19 sent his gun in and was told he'd get the new ejector. He called back and the tech he spoke to that time said that the new ejector was only for Gen4. There's no reason the new ejector couldn't be used in a Gen3, so either that's an odd policy or a misinformed tech.
 
Last edited:
Wow, I just stumbled across this... I'm up here in WA too. I got a G20SF with the ambi mag release, boy was that junk. Mags fell out, wouldn't seat, slide wouldn't lock back, then the parts actually fell out of the pistol. All this before I even got it to the range, I had just assembled the pistol and read about this problem online about full mags and tried it out --sure enough, junk. I sent it back and they replaced it with a regular frame. I had to ask them for a fed ex account number though, they were more than willing to let me pay for sending it back for them to fix their design flaws.

Glock used to have a real good reputation. They are still sliding by on it, but they are losing it rapidly. People that don't own one think they are still magnificently reliable (and the old ones are) but people that own the old ones and the new ones can see the difference, these are the customers you'd think they'd care about, but these are the ones they are burning. Seems these days they just take stuff from R&D and take it right to the manufacturing floor.

And I don't care about angering the fanboys. I have five Glocks, and I can say this G20SF will be my last and I consider myself lucky that I was able to get it fixed, working, and reliable. Just not worth the hassle dealing with them now, taking the chance, maybe it works maybe it doesn't, them not owning up to it or taking responsibility. Sure they'll fix it, but they'll also sell you junk and if you are fine with it or don't figure it out, they don't care.

My next tupperware will be FN, HK or something, if I ever get another Glock it will be a gen3 or older, I'd like a G24, but whatever it is it won't be their new stuff.

I hope you get everything worked out. I only had to deal with the junk ambi mag release, the rest of the G20SF was like the old one, and my slide was a 3rd gen. I've heard folks with the gen4 9mm are having the hardest times. Besides the spring, the extractor is MIM now and some are out of spec and those don't work. Wow.

I'm beginning to think they never deserved the reputation they have, engineering-wise, that maybe they just got lucky and hit the jackpot with a good original design. Because it seems everything they do to improve on it now just makes it worse.

I know what you mean about not feeling comfortable with the reliability of that weapon. I felt, and feel, the same way. I still like my Glocks, and I'm wearing one right now and my wife carries one too, but I won't be getting any new ones.
 
Well I finally got out and shot the Glock with the "new" ejector in it. The ejector seems to have fixed the ejection problem. I didn't get hit in the head or the face the entire time, and nothing went forward or left. I fired 100rds of WWB 115gr FMJ, 50 rds of American Eagle 115gr FMJ, 50 rds of American Eagle 124gr FMJ, 50rds of UMC Value Pack 115gr FMJ, 25rds of Winchester "Personal Protection" 147gr JHP, and 25 reloads of 4.3gr of Win 231, CCI Small pistol primer, Remington 115gr FMJ, OAL 1.100". So a total of 300 rds, maybe half a dozen of which sent the casing over my head, most of which seemed to be American Eagle 115gr. I have no idea why, but none of them hit me. Also with the 115gr American Eagle some (perhaps a dozen) seemed to eject more weakly than the other rounds, going maybe a foot out of the ejection port, but still to the rear right. Overall though I would say the problem is fixed. Though I can't account for why a few of the rounds were oddballs, it's definitely much much better than it was.

I also took the chronograph for the WWB haters. It was the hottest round out of all that were fired (avg 1140fps). Though the American Eagle 115gr was the most consistent (spread of 6fps, avg 1060fps), it was also the most "troublesome". The Winchester "Personal Protection" was the slowest and least consistent, which figures I guess because it was the heaviest round (avg 921fps, spread of 51fps).

The last 3 magazines I shot were mixed bags. One staggered WWB, PP, WWB, PP and so on, another that was basically the same but started on PP instead then WWB, PP, WWB, PP and so on. The other was leftovers of UMC, AE 115, and AE 124, staggered in that order, 1 of each type, all 3 types, 5 times for the 15 rds in the magazine.

The ejection was consistent enough that I was able to clean up brass by laying down a tarp to catch it. I posted some pictures, but there isn't really much to see from this trip. Now all I have to do is get my magazine back from Glock. That's why you only send in a bare minimum. I sent the pistol with the trijicons, which I would have removed if I had a sight puller, the case, the paperwork they needed, and 1 magazine. I got the pistol back in a different case with no magazine and they kept the paperwork they needed which is expected. That goes for any manufacturer, don't send anything extra.

http://s1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa348/SGTDuffman/Glock Fixes/9-24-11/
 
Forgot to mention most of the case damage has also stopped. It still happens on some cases, but it is no longer the majority of the cases, and what does happen is significantly less than before. The scratched area is about 1/4 the size it used to be, and it no longer smashes in the case mouth when it does happen. If I had to guess I would say maybe 10% of the cases are being damaged now as opposed to the 90% before, and the damage is roughly 75% less severe with no deformation of the case mouth.
 
Glad to hear it worked out for you. Who knows, maybe you actually helped the R&D department figure something new out about the Gen4.

Now all I have to do is get my magazine back from Glock. That's why you only send in a bare minimum. I sent the pistol with the trijicons, which I would have removed if I had a sight puller, the case, the paperwork they needed, and 1 magazine. I got the pistol back in a different case with no magazine and they kept the paperwork they needed which is expected. That goes for any manufacturer, don't send anything extra.
Click to expand...

So true. I sent an A1 AR-15 upper to Bushmaster, minus the bolt assembly, to have the A3 receiver I sent with it put on. They returned the upper to me with the A3 properly put on, but without the A1 receiver they took off. I hope they get it worked out because I was planning on selling it. I'm glad I didn't send the bolt assembly otherwise I might not have got that back. :rolleyes:
 
I almost didn't send them a magazine either. They got plenty of them. On the off chance it was somehow part of the problem though I decided to go ahead and send them one, and I don't regret doing it. I do wish that I had gotten it back though. After having to deal with everything else, then having them seemingly turn around their customer service problems, it would be a shame to have slipped through the cracks again. I still do believe they have become a lot more responsive, and since talking with Mr. Mathis they have been much better about answering the phones and responding to customer questions and requests. Things seemed to be going fairly well, and from all appearances it does seem that they've pinpointed the cause of erratic ejections in the Gen 4 G19. Hopefully the magazine will show up in the mail sometime by Wednesday or so, if not I'll be calling them on Thursday to see what happened. It's happened before where I've had parts ordered and I just never made it into the computer or whatever. I'm hoping that hasn't happened again. I really do want to give them every chance to get right because I like them as a company, but they aren't making it easy.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

P
  • Locked
So I bought a G19
Replies
15
Views
859
gym
G
Trey Veston
  • Locked
  • Poll
Can't decide: Glock G19 Gen 5 or G23 Gen 4??
Replies
22
Views
1K
JTQ
J
A
  • Locked
My Glock 23 Gen4 range report with pics
Replies
12
Views
655
Apocalypse-Now
A
P
  • Locked
Anyone else notice g26 recoils less than g19?
Replies
8
Views
671
rskent
rskent
D
  • Locked
How does Glock 17 (early gen) differ with Gen4 Glock 19?
Replies
8
Views
755
gym
G
Back
Top