Dilemma... gun safety for the kid...

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JImbothefiveth said:
Um, no, it's shooting them, not throwing a snowball at them.
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a·nal·o·gy /əˈnælədʒi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-nal-uh-jee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -gies. 1. a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump.
2. similarity or comparability: I see no analogy between your problem and mine.
3. Biology. an analogous relationship.
4. Linguistics. a. the process by which words or phrases are created or re-formed according to existing patterns in the language, as when shoon was re-formed as shoes, when -ize is added to nouns like winter to form verbs, or when a child says foots for feet.
b. a form resulting from such a process.

5. Logic. a form of reasoning in which one thing is inferred to be similar to another thing in a certain respect, on the basis of the known similarity between the things in other respects.

analogy. (n.d.). Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1). Retrieved October 20, 2008, from Dictionary.com website: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/analogy
:rolleyes:

But, then, you probably knew that and were just being intentionally obtuse.
 
This is why my kids don't have any toy guns. They all know, guns aren't toys. The only toy guns my kids have are water or nerf guns that do not resemble a real gun in any way.

Even if you are right, and he doesn't think airsoft and real guns are the same thing, and he handles them correctly, I would still say another layer of emphasis certainly couldn't hurt anything. I would treat it as a threshold for graduating from airsoft to real guns; "You have to grow up now."
 
RoostRider, I am having a similar issue with my oldest son. So I understand your concerns. For you to post on this forum, you must be having at least some doubts as to if this is a good idea.

You made a comment that if you son had thrown a rock instead of pointing an airsoft gun this would not affect your decision. I beg to differ, Actions, regardless of the tool used indicate a level of responsibility. Mature does not always equal responsible.
You have a tough decision in front of you, and I really don’t know what would be best for either you or your son.

Yea I know, I am of little help :)

LJH
 
In fact I would say that shooting someone who didn't want to be shot (which is immature and stupid for a variety of reasons) is about as inherently dangerous as throwing a snowball at them. Which, I think, a great many of us have done.
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I'll post the entire quote this time, and tell you why your analogy is wrong.
Shooting someone is lethal force, shooting someone with an airsoft(very similiar to shooting someone with a real gun) could cause a welt, throwing a snowball at someone might make them cold(and it is not at all similiar to shooting someone with a real gun).
 
LJH said:
You made a comment that if you son had thrown a rock instead of pointing an airsoft gun this would not affect your decision. I beg to differ, Actions, regardless of the tool used indicate a level of responsibility. Mature does not always equal responsible.
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I see your point. If he has a problem venting anger, it is one thing. Rocks are rather serious things, able to do a lot of damage. So I would definitely classify a rock being thrown as a reason for not giving him a gun.
If, for example, he traded punches with his older brother or slapped a sybling, I wouldn't see that as so much of an anger problem. I would of course still punish it, but I see them as different.

I fought with my little brother over a BB gun one time (he never gave it to me after he had his 5 shots with it or whatever). Dad didn't let either of us touch a gun for 3 months. That was worth the lesson and it never happened again.

I wouldn't give your son a gun, mostly because he did it to his mom, and the rest because of the rules he broke. After you talk to him, I might consider giving to to him for Christmas.
 
I'm also going with mom. It's all too possible that if he doesn't learn his lesson now, he might pull the same thing w/ a real gun later on. Telling the cops "I thought it was unloaded" is not going to keep him out of the slammer.

Maybe I'm being too harsh, but I know that in the big picture of things, delaying his getting his first real gun a few years is not going to have any lasting impact. Giving him his first real gun too early might have disastrous consequences.

Cameron
 
I agree that the gun may be an inappropriate lesson in this case. But there is hope. You can still put him in the safety class (in fact, I would recommend it) and you can still take him shooting with that 10/22, but retain "ownership" of it. Later on down the line, perhaps Christmas or his next birthday, you can give it to him, and it might even be more meaningful. Instead of dad buying him a new rifle, dad gave him a rifle from his own collection.
 
I remember I was about 5, my cousin had a blue machine gun, the ones that when you pulled the trigger it sounded like a burst of about 10 rounds. I pulled that on my parents once and let about 30 rounds fly, oh man did my butt hurt. But I got to keep all my tow guns, and a year or two after I got a 22 bolt action for Christmas. You can have both toy guns and real guns in the house. I did, I didnt have airsoft, but I had fake ones that my friends and I played with. Granted I was much younger than 13. In this case I think if you want to buy the gun, buy it. Take the safety classes with him. If when he turns 14 or even further down the road is mature enough to handle a real gun. Let him know it's his. I would rather have a gun my dad owned and handed down to me than a gun he just bought me anyway.
 
If I were you, first of all, I'd talk to the kid about what he did. Ask him something along the lines of, I don't know, "why in the hell did you do that?" Have HIM explain why on earth he would think that would ever be an appropriate thing to do. Try to get him to talk about it as much as possible. Try to get a look inside his head. As you talk to him, match your tone and volume of voice and your body posture to his (this is effective, as a psychological technique, to get someone to listen to you very carefully.) When he has said everything he has to say, then you give him a very serious lecture about how what he did was wrong and how important it is to always be as safe as you possibly can when it comes to guns. Don't be too condescending or mean about it, but be very serious. Tell him that since he did what he did, he will have to wait another year or whatever before he gets the 10/22 that he wants. (Also, if it were me, I'd get him a different gun with a bolt action, but that's just me.)

Say something that will appeal to his newfound sense of "manliness" which he will surely be riding high on at 13 years old. Tell him that a real man is always cool and calm with a gun, never wild and reckless, and that now that he's a "young man," it's time for him to stop acting like a little child. If there's one thing that no teenage boy wants to be thought of, it's immature. Take advantage of that psychological vulnerability to instill some discipline in him.
 
I would agree with the mother on this as well.

On the subject of toy guns, it is perfectly possible to have both(as long as you don't play with the real ones) That same logic would be not riding a carousel bc you have a real horse or can't play with a fake ax cause you use a real one for kindling

It is this simple if someone cannot tell the difference btw a toy and the genuine article then they shouldn't have eithier
 
Regretfully, another vote for mom. I understand that some parents make a distinction between toy and real guns and that is their prerogative. I have never been a fan of toy guns or paintball for that matter for children. Shooting people is not a sport to take lightly and makes the transition to real guns very difficult.
Go with the prevailing wisdom that the safety course is the bday present and give the gun as a present some other time (if his behavior warrants it of course).
 
"I agree that the gun may be an inappropriate lesson in this case. But there is hope. You can still put him in the safety class (in fact, I would recommend it) and you can still take him shooting with that 10/22, but retain "ownership" of it. Later on down the line, perhaps Christmas or his next birthday, you can give it to him, and it might even be more meaningful. Instead of dad buying him a new rifle, dad gave him a rifle from his own collection." ColinthePilot


+1 on this.:D
 
I agree (for the most part) with mom on this one. My son is 3 and he gets time-out for pointing the vaccum hose at the dog. You can not slip on the kid training, not once. What he did was wrong in so many ways and he would be lucky to ever touch a firearm again in my house. I'm not a big fan of airsoft or paintball for that matter because they don't re-enforce "real" gun safety. Until the kid is an adult (which varies with individual) they have a hard time distingushing play (airsoft) from the real thing. Take him to a safety course and drill it in his head not to ever do something like that again unless of course he is protecting his life from an intruder.
 
Well, I went with the "panic and find him another present" option.... he got a watch (that he loves) and a wallet (to demonstrate some responsibility with his money) and some money (to keep and use responsibly)....

It was a moral dilemma, and there was an obvious way to avoid the problem.... err on the side of caution... this was also a good way to show mom that I am going to err on the side of caution with him when regarding guns (since she associates them closely).... so it helped there too.... she is an 'ex' after all, and everything helps...

I explained to him why he was not getting the rifle I had planed to give him (it was part of my personal gun collection... and will be later, so no big rush).... I also explained to him that, in my opinion, he did not break the rules of gun safety, simply by virtue of the fact that this is not a gun.... we did not enforce the same rules as real guns about it to begin with, and I want him to treat real guns with more respect than he would treat any toy, and that we should never blur the line between toys and real guns..... but that he demonstrated the type of shortsightedness that can't be tolerated around guns, and that he would have to demonstrate the proper maturity level before he would be given a gun... (also the whole bit about respect for your mother!)... I also pointed out that I was siding with mom on this one, despite my differences about the logic behind it, because it was a serious offense for a whole host of reasons... and pointed out that mom insisting on him taking Gun Safety classes was a good thing, for him, and because it meant she was probably lightening up on the whole gun/hunting issue she has....

He took it all really well and said that he understood the whole thing and why I made the decision I did. He told me that he knew right away that he had made a big mistake with the airsoft and just flat out admitted that he "wasn't thinking"... he knows that there can't be any "wasn't thinking" times when he has a gun, and it seemed to all make good sense to him.... he said thanks for the watch, and that he loves the wallet, so it's fine...

To be perfectly clear hear.... I really don't agree with most of your takes that this thing should be treated like a gun.... I remember having toy guns as a kid, and I remember using real guns as a kid... I never confused the two.... (I was also never quite stupid enough to 'play shoot' my mom, much less with something that could actually hurt her if something were in the barrel...)... there was never a point where someone caught me, or I caught myself, treating a real gun like a toy....

I think he shares that understanding. He is a pretty bright kid (A's and B's), he's pretty responsible (mows lawns for money and does his chores and homework), and I have drilled the responsibility with guns thing into his head, and been shooting with him several times.... as noted, even other parents were commenting on how careful he was with the guns...

To ease some minds here.... I would never trust a kid with "his own gun" in the manner some of you seem to think is meant... although I thought I was plain about it.... he would 'own' the gun in concept only... it would still only get out of the gun locker when I, or some other well trusted responsible adult, were able to oversee his every action.... after Gun/Hunter Safety, he would be allowed to hunt with it outside of my direct supervision, but not without me present.... in summation, it would be no different than if I were to let him use one of my guns for shooting... which I think we can almost all agree, a kid of his age should be allowed to do under proper supervision....

I really appreciate all of your inputs.... most everyone had something to say that made a lot of sense, even if I disagreed with other parts of it.... and some of you had some really really good words of wisdom (even some I originally disagreed with)

Oh well, he will have to wait until another time to get a gun.... but I think he is learning a valuable lesson no matter what about consequences to careless actions.... and how to treat his mom.... *geez*... can you believe he actually did that?

To whoever noted that I might be better to consider a bolt action weapon for his first gun (when the time comes)..... you sound like my dad!!...... whom I respect very much and value his opinion.... I may just do that and keep that nice stainless 10/22.... :)
 
I think you erred correctly on the side of caution;


In the future, because I guess he'll eventually get the 10/22 give mom the keys to the gun lock :evil: even if it's a few years from now - and remind him of the "Airsoft" incident of 2008 :neener:
 
how many of you baby boomers out there shot your little brother with your pellet rifle you'd regularly knock off birds with? those things drew blood!

good call dad! i only ever got a whipping after pulling stunts like that, and it never taught me anything. sounds like he's taking away something better than a tan hide.
 
"All's well that ends well" you made a good call. I know you think there should be different rules for toy guns vs. real, but there is one thing I've learned through dog training and kid raising (sometimes not a whole lot difference :D) is consistancy. You showed great solidarity with mom here that is very important for raising the kid right. Sign him up for the next hunter safety course and enjoy! He'll learn that all important lesson of respect and common sense. ;)
 
The timing is bad to give him a real gun. He might get the impression that you are condoning him acting irresponsibly, even given the fact that it was with a fake gun.
 
Trustin said:
how many of you baby boomers out there shot your little brother with your pellet rifle you'd regularly knock off birds with? those things drew blood!
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This statement should go a long way towards showing how unbiased I am trying to be about this issue (everyone thinks their kid is good/mature/smart/reasonable right?)...

I hope my dad doesn't read this forum.... *sigh*.... I did....

In fact, I have to admit that this goes more to proving why it is that a toy gun should be treated as a real gun.... and sadly goes to disprove my theory that my friends and I never confused the distinction between the two...

I was taught that a BB gun was to be treated like a real gun.... with the exception that I was allowed to tote around my BB gun at will (we lived WAY out in the sticks)... so actually, I guess, what I was doing was not so much treating a toy gun with a lack of respect as I was treating a real gun with a lack of respect (even worse)... but the error in judgment was partly due to the 'confusion' between the two in 'everyones' opinion...

We actually had organized games of capture the flag in which we used BB guns (no pellet guns were allowed.... *and we thought that made it safe... *geesh*)... the rules were-

1- wear eye protection
2- no shooting at the face
3- no high power guns and no more than three pumps in any pump up gun (which works great until somebody decides that the shot is too long to make with only 3 pumps and goes four extra.... and then forgets that he has seven in there and pumps it up with his alloted 3 pumps again.... and then doesn't get the shot off so he holds his fire until you are in nice and close)
4- you were only "out" when you screamed "I GIVE UP" or something similar... hence, usually only after being covered with little welts...

It also goes to show that people can get seriously hurt with 'toy' guns (sort of)..... because I stopped playing when a kid had to have a BB surgically removed from his forehead (the doctor kept telling his mom it was not a ricochet, but she believed her son would never do that, or lie to her about it... *ding ding ding* in my head- now that I am dad*)... but the other kids didn't stop playing until..... you guessed it.... someone lost an eye (so much for always wearing safety glasses I guess)...

I still feel really bad about Mitchels eye (which his dad made him keep instead of getting a glass eye) even though I am not the one who shot him, and I had actually quit playing by then (my sad justification).... but I know that I promoted it, participated in it...


Perhaps I should make an apology to all the nice folks who were wise enough to disagree with me about it all.... but it's really hard to admit when you have been just plain ignorant about an issue, dismissing even your own personal experience from the equation....

There are some changes coming in this house regarding 'toy' guns.... unless I somehow convince myself that my son is somehow above all that again.... *sheeesh*.... and I thought I was being a "good dad".... *sigh*... sometimes things aren't so cut and dried...

Well, at least I'm glad I made the decision I did... even if I feel kind of like a heel for even having to ask people about it... lol...

distra said:
"All's well that ends well" you made a good call. I know you think there should be different rules for toy guns vs. real, but there is one thing I've learned through dog training and kid raising (sometimes not a whole lot difference ) is consistancy. You showed great solidarity with mom here that is very important for raising the kid right. Sign him up for the next hunter safety course and enjoy! He'll learn that all important lesson of respect and common sense.
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I hope his mom appreciates the action I took and the end result (sometimes it takes a minute, but I eventually catch on.. lol).... I could sure use the brownie points after trying to convince her that she was over-reacting... lol
 
I would just like to set the record straight, I learned a lot from my stupid stunt and am now the proud owner of the aforementioned ruger 10/22, as well as hopefully being able to pay for a 1911 by the end of the summer... Let it never be said I don't learn from my mistakes! I've also gotten several new airsoft guns since, as well as my hunters safety permit.
Sincerely, SonOfRoost (get the name yet?)
 
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