discrimination at the gun store/show?

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I think what some are trying to impress is that EVERY interaction that dissatisfies you is NOT racist or prejudice.

At the last gunshow I went to, I walked away from 2-3 tables after standing there for several minutes because no one wanted to help me. I waited until the person behind the counter finished his last transaction (Growing up, I was taught manners). Afterwards, the salesperson would look at me and make eye contact, but then walk away before I could open my mouth.

And a two local gunshops around here are just as bad.


The thing is... I meet what everyone seems to think that the "right" look is. I am from the area, got the same accent, dress professional, and have money when if I am looking.

Sometimes it ain't about all the little self-talk we give ourselves. Sometimes its just about Apathy.


-- John
 
Thank you Againstthagrane,
I appreciate your posting this topic. I wish you well in finding a local establishment with a friendly, knowledgeable staff that will treat you like the decent Human Being you are.
 
I get treated rather lowly because of my age. I get that "why the hell are you looking at those kind of guns?" look from alot of older guys, since I'm particularly interested in modern mil-rifles.

here's how it's gone for me:

"Hi, I'm looking for a nice little .22"
"aww, thats nice. Here's a ruger."
"hmm, thats pretty expensive"
"check this model 60 out"
"awesome, thanks."
"take it easy, sport"

as opposed to...

"hi, I've been looking into getting an AK-47"
"...yea, we sell them...*glare*"
"do you guys allow shipping to your location from internet-run sites?"
"...yea *glare*"
"what's your transfer fee rate?"
"...*glare*"

pretty much a big stereotype thing going on. If they see a black guy carrying on like a rapper/thug looking for a Glock, they're unkind. They see a young guy like me with no military background checking out military rifles, they're unkind. they see anyone who either doesnt take guns as serious as they do, or won't get suckered into buying an overpriced gun, they're unkind.

then there are just people who don't like certain people altogether. Oh well. just try and make friends. if you don't, then whatever. There are others who share your interests who arent bigots and jerks.

and of course, there is that apathy going on like mentioned above. A gun seller is obviously going to be more willing to spend time with someone whom he can tell knows what he wants as opposed to someone who only has a question or two.
 
I have encountered problems getting certain guns that I have wanted. I am white so race wasn't the issue. What was the issue?? Don't know, Don't care. I protest by taking my business elsewhere.

Just Jim........ requests that the thread be shut down..................AND then posts several more times.

The lady (man) doth protest too much!
 
I'm guessing that working in retail is bad enough without all the anti-gun hysteria and scaremongering being passed off as news 'above the fold.'
 
I think there are a lot of cranky white guys around this place. :neener:

Racism exists. In both directions.

I'm sorry you felt discriminated against. It isn't right. Maybe one day we can all grow up and get over ourselves. Until then....:banghead:
 
Outrageous!

:cuss: How DARE you suggest that taco-eaters are racists! :fire: Why, some of my best friends are taco-eaters! But I would not want my sister to marry one...................(the GAS problem):fire:.

Yes, Againstthegrane, I AM kidding! And I appreciate your ability to maintain a sense of humor during this worthy thread.

I am mostly "white" but I learned a little bit of what prejudice minorities receive when I moved to Hawaii for a while, where I WAS the minority. I could not get a job, a rental, or the time of day from the Asian culture caste-system that rules Hawaii---they LOVE tourists, but don't try to LIVE there! I was treated with disdain and suspicion and even overt hostility everywhere I went. I still love Hawaii anyway, and am grateful for my own experience of racist discrimination, just to get even a clue of what minorities go through here on the mainland.

My gunshop and gunshow experience is limited to thirty years here in Oregon. I find these places generally even LESS racist than ordinary shops and flea-markets! I feel that gun afficionados and sportsmen (and women) are generally more patriotic and colorblind than the mass of citizens, because they earnestly defend the Bill of Rights for the freedom of the individual, and generally "think outside the box" of media manipulation.

Nevertheless, I do not doubt that you have felt discrimination at gun shops and shows. In spite of published rules against it there are always book tables with racist and anti-Semetic literature salted amongs the gun books and back-to-nature survivalist homilies. Perhaps only an educated person would recognize them. There are always tables of Civil War or Nazi memorabillia and boxes of antique postcards amongst the artworks, though I never have seen any racist material displayed. In any gathering of a thousand tables there are bound to be some bottom-dwellers. It IS creepy though, how most people sort of know that these tables are there, but ignore the worst aspects that might be found if examined. Somehow a gun show does not seem to be a good place to start an arguement or make a principled stand! I sort of think of it like sweeping out an old garage---you know there are poisonous spiders lurking in the corners, but if you can you just leave them be...................

I could go on and on about bad and ignorant service at gunshops. I try to imagine a low-paying job where lots of people want to see and touch and boast, but very few want to buy, but I still have no sympathy for salespeople who treat their customers like intruders, or where owners do their utmost to rip everyone off, buy way-low and sell way-high. And this is how they treat the "white" people! I do not doubt that a "minority" person gets even more of this crap, especially when the shop people ignorantly wonder if you might be a "straw man" buyer for a gang. I have no tatoos on my neck, but when I enter a gunshop wearing my black leather motorcycle jacket I DO see everybody tense up before they earnestly ignore me!

I think that a sense of humor is the only salvation for the human race. It is really only recently that we stopped walking on our knuckles, after all. A good gag that I have developed for getting service at gun shows and shops: I pull out my wallet and pretend to count LOTS of bills with my fingers---suddenly I get their attention! Then I ignore them for a while.........................elsullo :rolleyes:
 
I agree with some of the others here who feel it's probably more of an age issue than a race issue. When it happens that you are young AND asking about newer/more "tactical" type stuff, it's even worse. Luckily, I'm more of a High Standard/Ithaca kind of guy, but, even in my early 30's, I encounter this issue every once in a while.
 
I was pleasantly surprised at the Wild Indian Gun Company in Goldsboro, NC. I worried about racism in the south and while I was in there looking around, 3 young black men came in and the white guy behind the counter knew one of them by name as was pretty friendly.

I was unsure about moving down there but now, after seeing that it isn't so bad, I'm excited about it.
 
I've seen the lynching type photos at gun shows here in Ga. They were ususally being sold by the sickko that was aslo selling graphic torture photos from WWII,Korea,VN, and any other photo of sick and morbid life.

My dealer here in Ga couldn't care less about the color of your skin. He cares about 2 things: Do you want to buy a gun and can you pass your background check? If you ever decide to move to middle Ga just let me know and I'll introduce you to him. In this day and age of failing businesses and fanatic anti-gunners, racism has no place. We all stick together or we sink together.
 
made in the US or by dark people in another part of the world like beretta and taurus. lol.
Click to expand...

Just for the record, claims of racism are much better received when you don't use racist statements. Even if you try to cover it up with a "lol".
 
Outrageous!

:cuss: How DARE you suggest that taco-eaters are racists! :fire: Why, some of my best friends are taco-eaters! But I would not want my sister to marry one...................(the GAS problem):fire:.

Yes, Againstthegrane, I AM kidding! And I appreciate your ability to maintain a sense of humor during this worthy thread.

I am mostly "white" but I learned a little bit of what prejudice minorities receive when I moved to Hawaii for a while, where I WAS the minority. I could not get a job, a rental, or the time of day from the Asian culture caste-system that rules Hawaii---they LOVE tourists, but don't try to LIVE there! I was treated with disdain and suspicion and even overt hostility everywhere I went. I still love Hawaii anyway, and am grateful for my own experience of racist discrimination, just to get even a clue of what minorities go through here on the mainland.

My gunshop and gunshow experience is limited to thirty years here in Oregon. I find these places generally even LESS racist than ordinary shops and flea-markets! I feel that gun afficionados and sportsmen (and women) are generally more patriotic and colorblind than the mass of citizens, because they earnestly defend the Bill of Rights for the freedom of the individual, and generally "think outside the box" of media manipulation.

Nevertheless, I do not doubt that you have felt discrimination at gun shops and shows. In spite of published rules against it there are always book tables with racist and anti-Semetic literature salted amongs the gun books and back-to-nature survivalist homilies. Perhaps only an educated person would recognize them. There are always tables of Civil War or Nazi memorabillia and boxes of antique postcards amongst the artworks, though I never have seen any racist material displayed. In any gathering of a thousand tables there are bound to be some bottom-dwellers. It IS creepy though, how most people sort of know that these tables are there, but ignore the worst aspects that might be found if examined. Somehow a gun show does not seem to be a good place to start an arguement or make a principled stand! I sort of think of it like sweeping out an old garage---you know there are poisonous spiders lurking in the corners, but if you can you just leave them be...................

I could go on and on about bad and ignorant service at gunshops. I try to imagine a low-paying job where lots of people want to see and touch and boast, but very few want to buy, but I still have no sympathy for salespeople who treat their customers like intruders, or where owners do their utmost to rip everyone off, buy way-low and sell way-high. And this is how they treat the "white" people! I do not doubt that a "minority" person gets even more of this crap, especially when the shop people ignorantly wonder if you might be a "straw man" buyer for a gang. I have no tatoos on my neck, but when I enter a gunshop wearing my black leather motorcycle jacket I DO see everybody tense up before they earnestly ignore me!

I think that a sense of humor is the only salvation for the human race. It is really only recently that we stopped walking on our knuckles, after all. A good gag that I have developed for getting service at gun shows and shops: I pull out my wallet and pretend to count LOTS of bills with my fingers---suddenly I get their attention! Then I ignore them for a while.........................elsullo :rolleyes:
 
Ok everyone, take a deep breath and calm down. The issue for discussion is whether gun store owners/employess tend to exhibit racist characteristics moreso than people in other lines of work. Not whether the OP experienced racism, or whether members of this forum are racist.

It's possible he did experience racism, but it is usually very hard to tell. There are many threads on this forum about what a bunch of arrogant, rude jerks gun store owners can be. It's possible that the people serving the OP were just jerks, and not racist jerks. It is impossible to tell unless they behave differently toward different groups of people.
Click to expand...

I am white, but I have encountered racist comments by a gun store employee - used the "N word" talking about some other customers who were in the store. He said something to the effect that "those people" were ruining gun ownership for the rest of us.

To put that in perspective, that was one occasion out of the hundreds of times I have been in gun stores. So I can't say that incident was representative of gun stores as a whole.

I agree with the other posters who have pointed out all the hundreds of threads on THR about jerk employees in gun stores. Sometimes when someone is acting like a jerk there may be a tendency to think we know their motives for being a jerk. Personally I don't care. If someone is being a jerk because the customer is the "wrong" color, or because they own foreign guns (or "commie guns") or just because they have inherent personality problems, it is pretty much the same outcome - the person is being a jerk.

Nor do I think this is unique to gun stores or gun shows. There are jerks in every industry and every walk of life.

I do think the reaction to the original poster has been extreme by some members. Disagree with him - fine. But demanding a thread be closed because you disagree with someone's question is a bit thin-skinned. For a neutral observer without a dog in this fight, some of the reactions in this thread have made me wonder, "why is this guy so defensive about this topic?"
 
Do you want to buy a gun and can you pass your background check?
Click to expand...

That's the way they are where I do business too. Please don't take anything in my previous posts to imply that racism is rampant around here. It does exist, as I imagine it does everywhere to some extent, but this is not the Jim Crow south anymore, despite NC's Pistol permit system (don't get me started :cuss:)

Having said that..........

I almost forgot about another experience I had at the Greensboro gunshow (this was a separate show from the one I mentioned in the previous post).

A friend of mine (also white) and I were perusing the wares of one of the vendors, a white guy about 65-70 years old. My friend and I are both mid-30's. As we are looking around the fellow says to my friend, "I have something here you'll want to see" and pulls out a 75 round drum mag for an SKS. My friend had an SKS slung over his shoulder at the time that he was trying to sell. My friend examines it and makes some polite comments on the quality of the construction and hands it back to him. He asked about price and I honestly forget the price he quoted. My friend wasn't in the market anyway, just being nice. The dealer then proceeds to say, "Well I've got 5 of them and I'll sell every one of them down in Atlanta next weekend for twice that. Those N*****S down there will buy anything."

My friend and I just looked at each other and walked away.

I will say that there was a time and place where his comments would have been commonplace. They are not anymore and Thank God. We have made great strides, but we must soldier on.
 
demanding a thread be closed because you disagree with someone's question is a bit thin-skinned
Click to expand...

AGREED!!!! That's exactly what the anti's do. They want their freedom of speech but don't want us owning guns. We can't have it both ways..They get to keep spouting incorrect and false statements and we get to keep our guns.
 
hey tnt, sorry if i offended you, but exactly what part of my post was racist? italians and brazilians do have darker complexions last time i checked. i refer to myself as brown as well. i don't find it offensive.
i just thought it was funny how they sing the praises of any gun that's made in the US and white europe, but italian and brazilian guns are crap in their eyes. honestly i don't care for taurus either, but i'm not really on a budget so i can spend more. for the money though, i think they're great.
 
"some of the reactions in this thread have made me wonder, "why is this guy so defensive about this topic?""

if you read some of my replies, i was wondering the very same thing.
 
To answer the question...Yes, I have observed racism and racist themes at gushows. I have seen booths selling racist t-shirts ex. picture of hooded KKK memberes that reads "The real boyz in the hood". I have seen booths selling racist books, I have seen treatment of white shoppers far more friendly than w/others. I have overheard MANY white patrons making racist comments about "brown/black/yellow" shoppers, who were doing nothing more than shopping and or browsing. This is not about gun owners at large..he simply asked if anyone had expirienced racism at a gunshow or store. pretty simple question..either you have or you havent. We really need to do better reading the OP so that we dont look silly defending ourselves against accusations that werent made to begin with..
 
"I've seen the lynching type photos at gun shows here in Ga. They were ususally being sold by the sickko that was aslo selling graphic torture photos from WWII,Korea,VN, and any other photo of sick and morbid life. "
oh btw, you're totally lying ;). clickclickdoh has not seen these photos, therefore, they do not exist. it's due to a law of physics or something. i'm not really sure how it works maybe he can explain it better.
 
clickclickdoh has not seen these photos, therefore, they do not exist. it's due to a law of physics or something. i'm not really sure how it works maybe he can explain it better.
Click to expand...

You know, this thread had seemed to rise above that. Please let it go or take the pissing contest to PM's or this will get locked.
 
Some people working gun shops or gun shows do not have perfect people skills. I have experienced poor service, bad attitudes, the list goes on. If it gets to the point of taking my business elsewhere, I do. The same applies to restaurants, the quik-mart, everywhere I spend my money.

Having a friendly approach is half the battle, I see many customers that bring it on themselves. There are a lot of jerks out there, just don't be one yourself and service people will appreciate your business, it might take a while with some, but most the time they will come around.
 
I am not sticking up for the gun shop that blew you off, but to be honest, we have a lot of gun shop owners in the good ole US of A who have ego's the size of Texas.

I spent my career wearing Italian suits, silk ties and expensive loafers. I dined and partied with many of the elite from my area. Today, I am older and retired and love my blue jeans and T-Shirts. I also enjoy going a couple days without shaving. :) I too have gone into a few gun shops and was blown off as well. In one I was treated like a second class citizen. And I am white.

Some of these gun shop owners get way above their raising. So I wouldn't take it personally. Many of us have suffered crap service regardless of the color of our skin.

I just take notes and never grace their door step again when treated bad and I make sure I tell my buddies.

Chris
 
FWIW, I work as a counter-monkey for an FFL. And you know what? Some of my co-workers are racist, most of them aren't. The racist ones are also usually unpleasant to deal with all-around, and don't have many sales. Just look for the people who aren't racist, they'll be happy to help.

As for the people knowing less about the firearm you're interested in than you do. We have to know a general amount of information about everything we sell--you don't. There's only a modicum of training you can possibly receive about working retail as a counter-monkey, and beyond that, people learn what they think they need to know in order to sell product and make a paycheck. Some of us research as much as we can so that the one guy a year who comes in asking a bizarrely specific question, we can answer him and (hopefully) sell him the firearm.

However, how we treat you is directly dependent on your attitude. I try to be courteous to people as much as possible, but if their attitudes make that impossible, then our attitudes will most likely mirror yours. Going in thinking that a gun place is a "regime" is a bad place to start on your end--we're people who are working for a living. Don't blame the lot of us for the few rotten apples who are there to work as little as possible and pull down a paycheck.
 
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