Disgruntled Ex-employee

[The Tourist]

I've seen it, but I don't know what drives a person to actually do it.

In 1998, both myself and my boss, the CFO, were fired. Clearly, it was trumped up, and the reason was that we had done our jobs--worked our way out of a job--and were let go as being unneeded overhead.

All they really had to do was just say so. We worked "distressed credit." That's the nature of the job.

However, this is where it gets spooky. Both the guy who fired us, and the CEO himself, drove past our homes or made cell phone calls from in front of our new companies.

My point is the same as the incident depicted here. You don't actually know what to do at first. Are they serious? Are they crazy (and I mean more than me)? Is this a vendetta of some sort? Are they so mad or creepy that they want to get you fired from your new job?

The guy who drove by my home was a pretty big mucky-muck in my little burg. He's on every board of every bank and utilities commission here. Clearly his reputation is his Achilles Heel.

I called the cops, reported my situation and also gave them the name of my CFO who was also harrassed. The incidents rapidly came to an end. People at that level don't like to questioned by police, like a common thug.

However, I believe the white-collar means nothing. I believe they are thugs.

 

[Treo]

Point Of Interest

I think it's worth noting, before we go much farther W/ this that the OP hasn't logged on since he made that one post.

 

[The Tourist]

Treo, I know your concern.

Usually when a guy has a low post count we often suspect he's a saleman or a troll. And for good reason.

That doesn't change the fact that workplace violence is a real-deal. I'm afraid of it. My wife has been bitten and hit with a chair.

And who knows how many certifiable lunatics I've handed a sharp knife. And with the coming recession problems, lay-offs, people losing their homes and businesses I suspect this problem with escalate.

During the 1970's gas crunch, one guy went loopy, whipped the gas nozzle around and was quoted as saying, "Do I have to kill somebody to buy some gas?"

Troll or not, this is a good debate.

 

[sixgunner455]

The only times I've seen workplace violence, it has been a part of the job I had at the time.

Doesn't make it less of a real thing for the more normal jobs, like what I'm doing now.

 

[hso]

Behavior problem employees being fired should have caused you to call the police before the termination meeting so the LEOs would have been present when the firing occurred and could have dealt with him at the time. Firings should be at the end of the business day so that no other employees are involved or should follow the day off with pay, day without pay prior to being "let go" format.

 

[Treo]

I disagree W/ letting the employee go at the end of the day. Do it at the begining of the shift, get it done & have the cops there when you do it.

The company I mentioned earlier has on site security & the only exception to the 4 day suspension policy was s ZERO tolerance work place violence policy. If an employee even mentioned that they were considering violent action, security escorted them off property on the spot.

 

[rainbowbob]

I think it's worth noting, before we go much farther W/ this that the OP hasn't logged on since he made that one post.

You guys are sharp! I didn't even notice that the OP was nowhere to be found.

Anyway...I agree with the Tourist that this is an important discussion.

I am interested to hear any thoughts you have on how this situation could have been better handled. As I mentioned earlier, I am also interested to hear how you would have acted if you had a CCW.

Victor:
If you're still out there...please let us know.

You got out OK, so here are my suggestions for next time:

1) Fix the front door lock ASAP. This point seems a little strange to me, however. What business doesn't have funtioning locks on all the doors?

2) CCW. If anyone makes a real threat (as this person did) you have every right to greet him with a firearm at low ready. If the lock had not failed, you could have taken defensive positions (i.e., away from the door, behind a counter or desk).

3) If he does manage to breach the door - inform him that the police are on the way and you will shoot if he does not vacate immediately.

4) If he continues to trespass, make threats, or otherwise act in an agressive manner that gives you reason to fear for your life or your employees' lives - you have a legal right to shoot him (at least in my state). The decision to do that rests on your perception of the imminent threat to you and your employees.

 

[Lupinus]

correct me if I'm wrong, gangs usually don't shoot non gang people.

Depends on the "gang"

Generally speaking you would be wrong. In years past when gangsters were "professionals" and understood few cared if another member was killed but killing non-gangs was bad for buisness you may have been more likely to be right.

 

[coyotehitman]

If the threats would have been real, the police would have made it just in time for the cleanup operation (maybe this was intentional or perhaps they don't consider this a high priority call).

Quite an assumption to make.

If your company considered this a high risk termination, it should have consulted with a security company and had an armed representative of that company sit in.

 

[pbearperry]

Police response through the years has gotten worse.The reason for this is departments are shrinking in size while calls for service are growing rapidly.My old dept had 207 sworn officers in 1970 and now has about 183 with talk of layoffs in the near future.This is not just happening in my city,it's happening all over.Dispatchers can't dispatch a cop if there are none free at that time.Yes they can pull cops off less serious calls,but sometimes there are no less serious calls being handled at that time.I am sure there are many here that will refuse to believe what I have said,but then again that's your own little problem isn't it?

 

[BamaHoosier]

By all means,have a LEO or SO present anytime you feel that a termination could turn ugly.Many security firms offer daily and/or hourly guard service(23 yrs ago,my ex-employer Globe Security did this).As to CCW while at work,consult your company policies first and strive to change them,if necessary,in the interest of everyone's safety.

 

[VictorE]

Sorry for the lack of response. Things have been a bit hectic in my life over the past few days.

To clear a couple of things up:

I really respect this board and the level of discourse on it. This was not a troll post, and I apologize if it appeared that way. The details of this event are 100% true.

I agree that my statement about the police response was unfair. I do not know the details of their call log that day and I know they can't respond within minutes to every call. However, comparing the timing of that response to other responses for less serious calls led me to question why it took so long. A much more reasonable explanation is that officers in the area were busy and that this call wasn't given a high priority. Being the recipient of the threat, I probably judged it to be a more serious call than the dispatcher.

I agree that I should be thankful that everything worked out well for me that day. There was no gun, and I came away unscathed.

However, I like playing poker and most good players (not that I count myself as good) realize that you can't judge how someone played a hand just by the outcome. Sometimes you win a large pot even if the odds were against you. But if you continue to play this way, it is highly likely that you will be a losing poker player.

As I place myself back into my shoes that day, I probably should have done things differently. The outcomes are pretty binary - either he has a gun or he doesn't. Given the degree of my belief that he might have a gun when he started coming back towards the building, I should have done something differently - be it charging him or running for cover.

I really appreciate all of the current discussion, and I am definitely interested in hearing any of your other thoughts.

 

[rainbowbob]

Dispatchers can't dispatch a cop if there are none free at that time.

I was told today by the duty officer at my local precinct there is one officer per 500 people in my city (Seattle) - and that the national average is one officer per 200 people. It's no wonder that response time aint what they - or we - would like it to be. All the more reason to be prepared to defend you and yours.

 

[The Tourist]

As stated, there is an ongoing evaluation of the Madison 911 system due to the murder. In fact, another story appears in the May 9, 2008 edition of the WSJ. While I feel the intense coverage is now beating a dead horse (and I believe they are looking for a scapegoat) the fact is no police were dispatched.

For me, that's a double-edged sword.

My clients are LEO. Most of them would crawl into burning building to save the community. They cannot help at a location to which they are never sent.

The other side of the debate is "well, what do you expect." The police will never be able to get to a crime scene where the agressor already has you by the throat. Considering the vast array of non-lethal weapons available, even in Wisconsin, there's little reason why the murderer isn't sliced up even a little bit.

My guess is that the manager at the time of the incident, or the 911 operator herself, will have to fall on their sword on this one before it will go away. Noble Wray will hold a press conference assuring the Madison community that "everything is being done for change" and that Madsion still remains the safest community in the USA.

And nothing will really change.

 

[Geno]

My advice, to administrators, has always been to terminate employees off-site, via a letter delivered through the sheriff department.

 

[coyotehitman]

Doc, what jurisdiction do you speak of who offers this service? I have never heard of such a thing in my area. We draw a bold line between civil matters and criminal matters and do not cross it.

 

[USMCDK]

The situation involved an employee of mine that was given several disciplinary warnings for poor job performance and bad behavior.

1st Question: How many times is several??? 3-4, 6-7???

In my company it's 3 strikes and your out. 1st is verbal/written. 2nd is formal/written, with 3 days off no pay. and 3rd is written/formal/termination.

IMHO for your company to be so leaniant with said employee, especially after he has a tendancy to blow up like that in former counseling, is a major suprise to me. In my conpany he would have been let go after 2 counseling after pulling a stun like that. BTW I work for a Security Company. Securitas Security Services USA Inc.

2nd Question: what is your company's policy about weapons??? Does your company even authorize the possession of a weapon on the premises? Whether it's on your person or in a vehicle is irrelevant it's still on the premises.

In all the sites that I have worked at, it has been the clients policy that employees, to include the security (unless it's an armed security guard site), are not to have weapons on the premises. (irony: I work at a firearms manufacturer site) ALSO it is a policy of my company that you do not have a weapon on any premises unless it's an armed guard site. THIS IS A ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY AND PUNISHABLE BY IMMEDIATE TERMINATION OF ONES EMPLOYEMENT. Secondly it is against state law (IN N.H.) to carry a firearm (AS A SECURITY OFFICER) without an ARMED GUARDS LICENSE while in uniform to, from, or at work.

3rd Qurstion: WHY OH WHY in Gods great name (sorry don't mean to get religious or blasphimus) would you just stand there knowing he's going to his car to get a weapon and kill you??? WHY didn't you evacuate the area of innocence before that guy did come back??? Whether he had a gun or not is irrelevant, he threatened to do it.

If that was to happen here where I work or any of our sites. Priority one is to dial 911 and evacuate personnel STAT!!! especially away from where the assailant is. Secondly we are to avoid contact, as much as humanly possible, with the assailant once it gets to that level.

Yes we do escort people off the premises, but not if they are threatening lives. We call the PD. Which yes your fellow manager did do so, and I applaude that.

On a final note I congradulate you on making it out of that situation unharmed. I also must say that I do understand stress and what it can do to the mind, especially when things like that happen damn fast, reaction time is slowed down and things happen in split second. I hope that you have learned something from that incident and lastly FIX THE DAMN LOCKS OR YOUR DOORS!!! LoL! Sorry I had too.