So I've heard and read tremendous things about the chargemaster lite, and I'm discounting none of them, but just as I'm about to put some money on one I see the Lyman gen6 compact, and at a much easier to swallow price too. My query is to explore whether the Lyman is a great value and the chargemaster just carries the rcbs price tag or if the Lyman is truly "cheaper". We are loading rifles to .2 or .3 gr spreads for long range varmints, stretching ranges on each cartridge the best we can so the chargemaster by all accounts will fit the bill, but can the Lyman get me there and save $100 dollars or will I be buying twice?
Dispenser vs
- Thread starter horsey300
- Start date
- Status
fotheringill
Member
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2014
- Messages
- 397
Getting you there is one issue and getting you out of there is quite another.
RCBS drains clean when cleaning up after you finish. The Gen 6 does not and needs partial disassembly to clean up.
I have had both the Gen 6 and the chargemaster big combo. I found neither to be particularly accurate although the Gen 6 did finish the drop a bit faster than the RCBS. If you will be reloading for hunting or plinking, either should suit your needs. If target shooting, neither will.
RCBS drains clean when cleaning up after you finish. The Gen 6 does not and needs partial disassembly to clean up.
I have had both the Gen 6 and the chargemaster big combo. I found neither to be particularly accurate although the Gen 6 did finish the drop a bit faster than the RCBS. If you will be reloading for hunting or plinking, either should suit your needs. If target shooting, neither will.
I'm definitely NOT a competition target guy, my long range targets are almost always furry (I.e. coyotes@900 yds) so sub moa is a goal and with the current trickler setup, that's not an issue, but not necessarily needing a 3" group at 1000yds. Obviously, I wouldn't complain with those results, but realistically, consistent groups around .75 moa serves the purpose most days
. Thank you for the feedback, with your input alone it seems that if I were to go for one, it should be the rcbs.
Blue68f100
Member
I do not know if the the Lite version of the CM gives you access to parameters used in dispensing. With the CM you can tweak the settings to improve accuracy and speed. The CM will retain these settings even when powered down. One thing you can do to greatly increase the accuracy is to reduce the size of the dispenser tube. Most of these are ~3/8" which is way too large for normal use, fine for 50cal. Some use straws, to do this. I used brass tubing since it does not has any static related issues. Google fixes and a lot of options and ideas show up.
Should add the CM can hold a ±0.05gr if you take the time to slow it down and use a smaller discharge tube. This is with the stick/tubular type powder.
Should add the CM can hold a ±0.05gr if you take the time to slow it down and use a smaller discharge tube. This is with the stick/tubular type powder.
Last edited:
someguy2800
Member
My Lyman gen 6 works well and is easy to clean out. It is always +/- .1 gr. It comes with a little restrictor to thread into the end of the spout to slow down the feed a bit. With large grained stick powders it will overshoot .2 grains unless you put the restrictor in, and then it is usually -0/+.1 accurate. The restrictor is not needed for smaller grained stick powders or ball powders. It does extremely well with flake powders as well. I've had it lock up a couple times but a power cycle fixes it. It seams to be totally insensitive to electronic noise and vibration. I have been told by people with chargemasters that they need to be on a separate table than the press due to vibration when working the press but I don't have that problem.
I have the Lyman Gen 6 and this sums it up quite nicely.
It is very easy to empty it of powder and to make sure you got it all. It does require "disassembly" which entails hitting a button to release the cylinder that holds powder, unscrewing the powder nozzle, and then pressing in on another part: in other words is it simple and saying you have to "disassemble" it sounds much more dramatic than it really is. You could probably empty it of powder, take the whole thing apart, clean it out, and put it back together in less than five minutes.
Accuracy is within .2 grains. On occasion it will throw a charge that is off by .2 grains but it is within .1 grains probably 99% of the time.
I have never used the RCBS unit, so I can't offer a comparison. But, based on what you have said, I would say the Lyman would do everything you require with ease. I have no idea how the two compare in price, but if the Lyman is significantly cheaper, I would be inclined to go with it.
someguy2800
Member
I don't take anything off of mine to empty it. Just open the gate on the side to dump everything out into the powder bottle, then close the gate and stand it on end while holding the scale pan under the spout to get everything out of there. Then set it back down and dump the last little bit of powder out of the gate by tipping it and sweeping it out with an acid brush. If a ball powder was being used I then hold it upside down over the trash can and shake it a bit to get anything sticking to the sides from static out. It's not unusual for me to use 5 different powders in one sitting. It takes less than a minute to change powders this way. I've had mine for 3 or 4 years and I've never taken off the powder spout.
MtnCreek
Member
A chargemaster overcharges by about 0.1 gr of 4350 pretty consistently. Loading 50 rds with a chargemaster last week with the scale set 0.1 below desired weight, I probably had about a 20% reject (over). I typically set it a little more under desired and trickle up on a beam, but was in a hurry to get these loaded and they were for a new rifle anyway.
jmorris
Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2005
- Messages
- 24,232
One thing I don't like about the chargemaster is the auto zeroing "feature". I am not a fan of things that change themselves and even less so when there is no indication that they did.
The contraption at the end that has the single kernel resoultion is an auto trickler I built using a photoswitch and an old 5-0-5 beam scale. More repeatable charge weights and cheaper than the store bought units. This is an examle of how I use it.
The contraption at the end that has the single kernel resoultion is an auto trickler I built using a photoswitch and an old 5-0-5 beam scale. More repeatable charge weights and cheaper than the store bought units. This is an examle of how I use it.
fotheringill
Member
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2014
- Messages
- 397
Horsey- For your purposes, you are good to go with either.
fotheringill
Member
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2014
- Messages
- 397
Guys-
Please take a careful look at the You Tube posted above by jmorris. When the pan is removed, the scale registers 152.5. It should be 153.0
The drifting etc. and the incorrect - value after removing the pan is exactly why I sent mine back to Brownell's and replaced it with an old fashioned manual BR-30 powder drop from Redding.
Please take a careful look at the You Tube posted above by jmorris. When the pan is removed, the scale registers 152.5. It should be 153.0
The drifting etc. and the incorrect - value after removing the pan is exactly why I sent mine back to Brownell's and replaced it with an old fashioned manual BR-30 powder drop from Redding.
someguy2800
Member
My in process check calibration check on the gen 6 is to look at what the scale reads when I pick up my scale pan/funnel. It always reads -68.8 grains. Occasionally it drifts to -68.9 and I just hit the zero button and its back to normal. I have check weighted it hundreds of times and its always -.0/+.1
I discovered this myself a long time ago, with every digital scale I ever owned. As long as you know about it, you can try to stay on top of it.
Not good however.
MtnCreek
Member
Mine weighs 155 and doesn't drift.
As always, your mileage may vary. I own a CM1500 and a 505. I have tested my CM1500 against my 505 countless times trying to get something weird to happen. The weight I throw on the CM1500 weighs up on the 505 the same everytime I have tested in the last 2 years with charges weighing from 2 to 100 grains. I gave up trying to test it, and just throw a couple of check loads on my CM1500 and test against the 505 when I start just to be sure. I have not experienced drift like jmorris has shown.
Ive wanted one of the Chargemasters for a long time, but just never could justify the cost. My stupid little lee perfect powder measurer will throw +/- .2 with anything ive tried besides 800x, and some really large charges for magnum cases. With the mags im still within .5 so i just got low and spoon in.
Ive got a really GOOD digital scale i borrow at work sometimes to check my other scales against (yes ive got checkweights), and ive actually found most scales are pretty consistent to them selves as long as they are properly set up and you keep any other electronics away from them. this means I keep my cell phone away from my reloading bench, and have made specific check weights for the loads i use a lot. I figure you could probably do the same thing for something like the Chargemaster if it mattered enough.
Ive got a really GOOD digital scale i borrow at work sometimes to check my other scales against (yes ive got checkweights), and ive actually found most scales are pretty consistent to them selves as long as they are properly set up and you keep any other electronics away from them. this means I keep my cell phone away from my reloading bench, and have made specific check weights for the loads i use a lot. I figure you could probably do the same thing for something like the Chargemaster if it mattered enough.
The issue for me isn't whether or not you put a check weight on the scale and the scale reads the correct weight. The problem occurs when you are slowly trickling powder into the pan of the scale. The scale attempts to auto-zero itself. If you trickle slowly enough, you could fill the pan completely and the scale would still read zero. Then you remove the pan, pour out the powder, and then put the pan back on the scale and it will read something other than zero. Because the scale re-zeroed itself while you were SLOWLY trickling powder onto the pan.
I have done this with four or five different electronic scales and every one of them does it. And this is a well known problem: there arn't just a couple guys complaining about this.
I realize it is the technology used in the scale. I believe it is called a load cell. This came up a few months ago and a guy posted a video explaining why it happens. Problem is that buying a scale that doesn't do this is like five times the money.
I have done this with four or five different electronic scales and every one of them does it. And this is a well known problem: there arn't just a couple guys complaining about this.
I realize it is the technology used in the scale. I believe it is called a load cell. This came up a few months ago and a guy posted a video explaining why it happens. Problem is that buying a scale that doesn't do this is like five times the money.
Last edited:
I may not have noticed this as i use a cup and spoon to finish off my charges, 10 seconds max. I also only make at most 50rns of rifle ammo at a time. I normally only check every 10th drop for small cartridges, and every 5th for the larger ones, so the scale spends most of its time empty after setting the initial charge weight.
ive got a powder trickler...tho i may have given that away.... but got tired of messing with it because of how slow it was
ive got a powder trickler...tho i may have given that away.... but got tired of messing with it because of how slow it was
Like you, for my bolt rifles, I typically load 50 or at most 100 rounds at a time. And, I weigh every charge to within .1 grain (the accuracy of my scale). So, for me, using one of these automatic powder dispensers is of limited use. I enjoy reloading and I enjoy playing around with reloading so I buy a lot of gadgets more than anything else just to play with. So, I do own one.
But, I frequently load rifle ammo using a Lee Scoop. I choose one that gives me something close, but under weight. And I then trickle it up to the amount I want (using a Lee scoop for trickling). Very low tech, but it works fine for me. And isn't a whole lot slower than using something else.
I know it is just me, but I have never been able to get a powder measure to give me charges that are consistently within .1 grain. I have read all the comments about someone else's powder measure being more accurate than that. I have read all the techniques to get more uniform powder throws. I have watched the videos............And I own three or four of them including the Harrel.
So, I don't use them for rifle ammo. With pistols, I don't care if the powder charge is .2 off, or .3 off.
But, I frequently load rifle ammo using a Lee Scoop. I choose one that gives me something close, but under weight. And I then trickle it up to the amount I want (using a Lee scoop for trickling). Very low tech, but it works fine for me. And isn't a whole lot slower than using something else.
I know it is just me, but I have never been able to get a powder measure to give me charges that are consistently within .1 grain. I have read all the comments about someone else's powder measure being more accurate than that. I have read all the techniques to get more uniform powder throws. I have watched the videos............And I own three or four of them including the Harrel.
So, I don't use them for rifle ammo. With pistols, I don't care if the powder charge is .2 off, or .3 off.
jmorris
Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2005
- Messages
- 24,232
Because you are above the weight where they autozero themselves. Duplicate what I did above and you should get the same results.
Its too bad that RCBS doesn't include information on all the parameters that the user can adjust, I bet one of them could eliminate the "feature" and make it like other digital scales I have where a button has to be pushed to zero the scale out.
FWIW, in use I dont use the factory pans with the CM's I use the lyman pan that has the funnel build into them to dump powder directly into the case. Doesn't matter what the pan weighs as long as you are at zero before you add the material you want to weigh. Same thing with beam scales, that is why you can get into the pan hanger and adjust the weight there.
In the case of the chargemaster you can be at zero even if you have two tenths of a grain worth of powder added to them. If you ever had kernels left behind and wondered why they didn't seem to effect the reading on the scale that is why.
Last edited:
jmorris
Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2005
- Messages
- 24,232
As above a regular beam scale will move with a single kernel even if you add it long after there is already 250 grains in the pan, as well as, any other time.
The limiting factor at that point is how precise you can trickle into the pan.
With the one I built it is about a single kernel +/-.
and yes if you could set a CM that low, it would just keep going forever.
Last edited:
That is an interesting question. Being that everything is electronic, would it be possible to turn that feature off?
And your correct. I dont put just a couple kernels in. I always make sure my pan is empty before I throw. I also know what the weight of my pan is, so I can see when the scale goes below zero when I remove the pan, if that negative number matches the weight of my pan. I use the stock pan most of the time, but I also have a pair of RCBS funnel pans that I use once in awhile that weigh exactly the same, so I can keep dropping powder, even while Im pouring powder.
Other than that, my CM1500 is bone stock. Yeah, I get an occasional over throw. I need to reprogram and buy a brass insert (better than McD's straw) but for the moment Im happy with it.
The bold part is basically what I was trying to get at. All these type of scales do what has been described. The important thing is that you are aware of it and pay attention to what is going on. Which is exactly what you are saying there, and you are keeping on top of it.
The thing about the couple of kernals: if your load is, let's say 42 grains of some stick rifle powder and your scale is reading 41.9 grains. Getting that 1/10 grain of powder is just a few kernels of powder. So expecting this kind of accuracy and repeatability is not over the top or ridiculous.
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
