Do aftermarket parts affect the value of older commercial guns like they do mil surps?

[Lu249]

I recently bought a very nice Winchester model 63 at a show this weekend for under $700. It’s an early 8400 SN with a Lyman Alaskan All Weather 2.5X scope. For an original deluxe 63, I was surprised the price wasn’t twice of what I paid. From what I’ve read, the scope is the rarer kind with the target dot reticle instead of just the simple cross hair. The glass is very clear for its age and the rifle functions fine. I’m wondering if I just got a really good deal or if having the scope mounted to it decreases the value? I’ve been looking for an original 63 for some time and this was a deal hard to pass up. I know that on milsurp guns, permanent modification (that’s not historical relevant) to them usually decreases the value drastically but I didn’t think it affected older commercial guns as much. Is this the case? Either way I feel I got a pretty good deal on a very cool vintage plinking/small varmint scope and rifle combo.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Drilling and tapping generally hurt the values. One possible exception being period correct aftermarket sights

 

[silicosys4]

Hmm, R.W. is correct. Some don't consider D&T'd vintage collectibles to be egregious if its done with period correct sights. Some. MOST, even those that like the look, will still try to use the fact that the receiver has holes in it that it didn't come with as a bargaining tool to drive the price down.
Personally I do not want extra holes, even if they are used to mount period correct optics unless it comes at a steep discount.

It sounds like you enjoy the vintage feel of the period scope, and to be honest it looks rather fetching on that rifle. If you like it, then its as it should be.

 

[mgmorden]

For the most part, a gun is at its peak value exactly how it left the factory. Wear decreases the value, as does any modifications.

However, the devil is in the details. Modifications don't tend to affect the value of commercial guns nearly as much as they do milsurps, and obviously poorly done modifications hurt the value a lot more than well done ones. IE a bunch of crooked holes drilled with a hand drill to fit a scope rail are going to hurt the value a lot more than professionally done properly aligned scope base holes.

Also there comes a point where if its obviously REALLY well modified it can actually positively increase the value. A run of the mill Sears Mauser imported rifle in stock condition won't be worth as much as one where its obvious that a very talented smith has engraved it, stocked it with some exhibition grade walnut, etc. - particularly if it was done by a well-known gunsmith.

Also, provenance can be a thing with any item as long as you can prove it. A lever gun that's been drilled and tapped will have its value hurt, but if it was Teddy Roosevelt's personal .30-30 that he killed a dozen critters with (and you can prove it via documentation) then that certainly is going to help the value.

Bottom line: as with all things, its worth as much as someone else is willing to pay for it.

Personally I don't mind alterations at all when I buy stuff BUT if I can use it as a bargaining chip to knock the price down I certainly will.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

My opinion, FWIW: unless you're willing to take a very deep dive in the history and collecting community of a particular firearm well before purchase, I recommend you decide how badly you want it and then make sure you are getting a solid, functioning gun. Depending on the age and rarity of a particular firearm, the true collector's pieces are usually pristine, unfired specimens. Highest collector value is often has more to do with the difference between examples graded 95% vs. 98% condition.

My other opinion is that $700 is a very good price for one of these with a nice bore, especially with an Alaskan in period-correct mounts.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Beautiful rifle!

 

[GooseGestapo]

Beautiful rifle!
The first time I went squirrel hunting with a neighbor, I was allowed to carry a Model 63 chambered for .22 Long (not LR or short!) (unloaded!) I shot my second squirrel that day with it. When I was aiming, the neighbor kept trying to direct my attention to another part of the tree. When I shot, he and everyone in the party were astonished when a squirrel cartwheeled out of the tree.
The one I shot circa 1966 was no where as nice as the one you have.

 

[jmorris]

My gut says if you change it from original, it’s value to a collector is diminished.

That said, there are lots of people that futz up cars and others still buy them, guess everyone doesn’t know to avoid others “hotrods”. That’s where “there is a butt for every seat.” Saying comes from, in the car business.

So even if you took that 63, and screwed a bunch of rails to it and spray painted in camo with krylon, someone would think it’s cool and buy it. Might not be a discriminating buyer but cash is cash.

 

[Litetrigger]

You got a great deal!! Be happy.

 

[Riomouse911]

I like it as you bought it, nice find!

Stay safe.

 

[Random 8]

ANY modification of a milsurp that is non-reversable and not correct to that specific rifle basically destroys any collector value and places it into the sporter category. In the case of period correct, but not original to the rifle mods such as converting an M96 or M91-30 into sniper configuration with old stock optics and mounts, it often converts the rifle into a sum of parts value, the optics systems+ gunsmithing carrying more value than the relatively common base rifle. This is not true of vintage commercial rifles so long as the modification is well done and period correct as yours appears to be. Yes, it will diminish the value vs an unaltered original, but not to the degree that it will most military rifles. In your case, that fine condition Alaskan and mount is probably roughly a wash vs diminished value from D/T, more in line with an infantry to sniper conversion of a milsurp.

 

[Jim Watson]

A friend has a comparable outfit, a .30 Remington Model 81 with a period scope in period mounts. Very handsome.
A bystander watched him shooting in horror "It's a collector's item."
To which he replied "You don't understand, it has been collected."

 

[eastbank]

i wanted a decent pump .22 rifle to USE not collect and when i ran into this 1940 winchester 61 in ex codition in and very good out side that was D&T for a older weaver side mount i jumped on it for less than 300 dollars. i took it apart and cleaned and ran 200 rounds thru it with out any problems at all, i knew i had a baby 4x redfield scope in my scope box and mounted it, dime size 10 shot groups at 35 yards. and i would look at and use your rifle the same way.

 

[R.W.Dale]

To elaborate on my comment above

I am a shooter. I don't buy firearms to not enjoy them on the range. So a few extra holes all else being equal is an opportunity for me to get into a gun I want at a price I'm willing to pay. See my recent thread about a badly abused Marlin

 

[BushMaster-15]

Generally what's already been said with those rare exceptions .

When Notable Gunsmiths modifies a particular firearm ,IE sporterizing a Model 98 for example Safari Grade conversions .

Griffin & Howe for one name . It ADDS value ,as do other High quality gunsmiths such as Clark customs Colt .45 for another

 

[BushMaster-15]

To elaborate on my comment above

I am a shooter. I don't buy firearms to not enjoy them on the range. So a few extra holes all else being equal is an opportunity for me to get into a gun I want at a price I'm willing to pay. See my recent thread about a badly abused Marlin

A Tig and a flat single or Double tooth draw file for smoothing welds . If holes are threaded put screws in and Tig weld holes closed again smooth with draw file just enough so surface is all one plane . Leave the machine lines alone best you can ,then find someone with a ND YAG laser and have em match the serration cuts . Clean well BEFORE and again after lasering use a Good Bluing formula and BINGO it's all back original . Oxpho blue @ Brownells

 

[BreechFace]

Bubba got a brand new drill bit set for Christmas.

You probably got yourself a nice shooter for cheap with the hit the previous owner took on that.

 

[Bazoo]

Holes don’t bother me long as I can put a plug screw in it. It’s part of the history of that gun. Just so happens it’s also a way to get the gun a bit cheaper. Personally I’d rather have a gun with some honest wear and use than one that was as new.

 

[tark]

Drilling and tapping generally hurt the values. One possible exception being period correct aftermarket sights

You mean like this poor old Savage 23C in 25-20?. Bubba mayhem at its finest.

 

[Bazoo]

You mean like this poor old Savage 23C in 25-20?. Bubba mayhem at its finest.

I certainly don’t think that’s a bubba job. Sure it has some extra holes but they are cleanly done. I’d be proud to own that gun. I’d likely also try to source the vintage mounts for some
of the holes. A clean job like that is just part of the history of that weapon.

Now, stick welding a scope base on in the garage.... that’s a bubba job.

 

[tark]

I certainly don’t think that’s a bubba job. Sure it has some extra holes but they are cleanly done. I’d be proud to own that gun. I’d likely also try to source the vintage mounts for some
of the holes. A clean job like that is just part of the history of that weapon.

Now, stick welding a scope base on in the garage.... that’s a bubba job.

I didn't show all the screw holes in the top on the receiver. There are five more of them. The rifle does have a nice piece of straight grained walnut for a stock. It is a good shooter and I can shoot pointed bullets.

 

[Bazoo]

I didn't show all the screw holes in the top on the receiver. There are five more of them. The rifle does have a nice piece of straight grained walnut for a stock. It is a good shooter and I can shoot pointed bullets.

Lordy. Well....