Do concealed guns belong in stadiums?

[Deaf Smith]

How many terrorist attacks on stadiums have there been?

How many angry ex-spouses have attacked their ex at a stadium?

How many robbers, molesters, and gangs have attacked folks at stadiums?

Please cite your sources. Thanks

http://econ.ucdenver.edu/home/workingpapers/Rees_WP_08-01.pdf

Two-thirds of U.S. Football Stadiums are Located inHigh-Crime-Risk Neighborhoods -- New Study Cites Need for SecurityAwareness.

http://www.allbusiness.com/crime-law/criminal-offenses-property/6561665-1.html


http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6901671/nfl-security-chief-confident-candlestick-park-security

NFL security chief visits Candlestick

"There were also numerous fights inside the stadium, including one man getting beaten unconscious in a bathroom"

But say, if you are claiming there is no crime in the stadiums then why worry about those with legal CCW guns?

Deaf

 

[scaatylobo]

My answer is - there is NO such thing as a " gun free zone " so !!.

I have been to many stadiums over the past 7/8 years and NEVER searched and neither were the tens of thousands of others that were there.

So my answer is HELL YES,carry and pray as always that you dont need it.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Let's llok at it this way... in states like Washington where firearms ARE allowed in stadiums, in fact MUST be allowed in government operated stadiums, why don't we have gunfights in those stadiums?

There you go again, using facts and logic.

Don't you know that gun control is all about emotion? And the louder, shriller, and more irrational it is, the more likely it is to be accepted?

 

[Mike1234567]

There you go again, using facts and logic.

Don't you know that gun control is all about emotion? And the louder, shriller, and more irrational it is, the more likely it is to be accepted?

The "anti" chant: ***squeeeeck*** ***squeeeeck*** grease me, stroke me... I won't fight back... I'm unarmed.

 

[oneounceload]

There were also numerous fights inside the stadium, including one man getting beaten unconscious in a bathroom"

Hmmmm, let's see one fight here or there among thousands of games - yep, that paranoia suiting you?

Over zealous fans, momentary highs and lows as scores change, rivalries, ALCOHOL, and guns

What a "winning" combination

Want to carry your gun inside so you can feel like a big man and be safe?- no ALCOHOL SALES

Which route do you think the stadium owners and team owner will take, selling beer/booze for exorbitant profits, or alienating a few folks who are afraid to go anywhere without a gun?

Don't hold your breath

 

[9teenEleven]

Many stadiums are in sketchy parts of town. I would be concerned less with needing it in the stadium and more on the way back to the car.

 

[oneounceload]

Many stadiums are in sketchy parts of town. I would be concerned less with needing it in the stadium and more on the way back to the car.

No argument there, and if they offered a secure locker or similar, no big deal - but too many get caught up in the moment, and fueled by alcohol, adding guns does not mix well

 

[TennJed]

First off let me say I agree that it should be LEGAL to carry. I think people have the right to defend themselve. But as a season ticket holder to a major college football team I would say to everyone if you did and had to use it be prepared for what would follow.

I have been to at least 150 - 200 college football games. Leaving a staduim with 50,000 n-100,000 other people is SLOW going. Imagine what the scene would be like if you had a gunshot go off. Kids would most likely get trampled to death. I have a 3 year old girl. I can't fathom trying to fight a crowd that size in a panic.

There are LOTS of small children around me at every game I attend

There is no way I would carry into a stadium. I would rather be "carried by six" than be a contributing factor in children (and others) getting trampled to death.

Also I am 99.9% sure that I would never need a firearm in any football game I will ever attend. I will take those odds.

Last thing (and I hope I am not offending anyone with this) I am glad I able to use a firearm and have the knowledge to do so. I am also glad I can enjoy life realizing that I do not need a gun at every single step I make. I keep a "beater" gun in my truck that would not be the end of the world if it was stolen. That gives me piece of mind driving to and from the game. Tailgating before and while in the stadium is probably the place where my life is LEAST threatened.

The only hobby/interest I have as much passion for as firearms is college football. If someone pulls a gun and causes a panic at the stadium and my little girl get trampled. I hope that person gets the chair. Don't care who started it.

We have a rights we have to fight for as gun owners. i am behind protecting those rights. As guns owners we have a responsability to be....well responsable. There are just somplaces that guns shold not be used no matter what. 100,000 people in a space of 300 yards by 300 yards is one of them. There are very few places in the country as conjested as a college football stadium. And for the person that will warn me that a thousand armed terrorist could be places throughtout the stadium ready to take us all down. Again I will take those odds.

 

[Hanzo581]

As long as you don't drink sure you should be allowed to carry. They simply don't have enough security in these giant stadiums...by the time security gets to you it is more than likely too late.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

It is not necessarily crime at a venue--stadium, restaurant, concert--that is a cause to go armed for self-defense, but exposure to crime in transit, on the journey to or from. However, leaving a gun in an unattended vehicle does worry me.

 

[razorback2003]

I carry mine when I can get it past people w/o folks seeing and it is legal in the ballpark. I could care less about a business policy. If it gets to the point there are some sort of metal detectors, I won't go because I'm not leaving my gun in the car.

 

[jbrown50]

All of this reminds me of a security exercise at a local stadium that I participated in way back when I was a cop.

Posing as terrorists, it was our job to smuggle weapons past the security personnel at the various gates. Upon our arrival the guards easily figured out who we were and wanded us down quite thoroughly. They even escorted us up to the concourse and then allowed us to go about our merry way with big ole' grins on their faces.

It was absolutely priceless to see the startled looks on their faces as we later arrived back at the gate with the dummy weapons in our hands. We had simply stashed the items into remote areas throughout the stadium during off duty off peak hours. We even bought them in stashed inside vendor's condiment containers.

The misconception is that all you have to do is place a bunch of metal detectors and xray equipment at entrances and that'll keep criminals and terrorists from getting anything in. It's amazing how many gullable people there are who actually think that these measures, taken at these venues, airports, govt facilities, etc., are being done for "their" safety.

 

[Guillermo]

the anti freedom people posting here make me want to vomit

 

[mortablunt]

I have some remnant antigunner worries about stadiums. They are loud, noisy, chaotic, and there is a lot of emotion running rampant. What if a brawl breaks out between drunk, enranged gun packers? I know that I am being irrational here, but it's always in the back of my head 'what if some idiot managed to somehow get a permit and bring in something to start a fight?' I have to say that stadium carry ought to be legal.

 

[Plan2Live]

In my earlier post I tried to nibble around the edges and suggest that watching a sporting event from home is simply more enjoyable. I'll be a little more direct now. Given the high level of emotion and testosterone present at most stadium events, the likelyhood of increased blood alcohol levels, the typically long sometimes dangerous hike in from the parking areas, combined with the physical comforts and technological advantages of watching the event at home all combined make stadium attendence very unappealing to me. I thought one of the main doctrines of concealed carry is avoidance. It seems to me that going to a stadium event is anything but avoidance.

 

[Sam1911]

It seems to me that going to a stadium event is anything but avoidance.

We've had very similar conversations in the past regarding "raves," the club scene, bar-hopping, parties, local young folks' "hang-outs," and even the practice of (to be delicate about it) spending your nights with casual intimate partners you've just met.

Everyone has a balance point somewhere where the enjoyment they get out of an activity is more, or less, compelling than the risks inherent in that persuit.

You are FAR from alone in your feelings about mass-consumption sporting events, but others will admit that they'd never stop attending games, even if they were in considerable danger regularly.

Everyone is different and, to one degree or another, you can't live life hiding from the world. Balance that perspective against the wisdom of not going places where trouble happens. Relax, don't worry, stay vigalent, watch your six! Don't let it get to you -- and don't let 'em GET you!

 

[Vern Humphrey]

One point the control freaks have failed to address -- there are many stadiums where people can and do carry.

So why don't we see shootings instead of fist-fights at those stadiums?

Any answers?

 

[Sam1911]

Hmmm... I suppose it could be for the same reason we don't see folks shooting each other in drunken rages in those states where it's legal to carry in a bar (even while drinking!).

Much ado about nothing.

 

[Exeter]

Depends on the policy of the stadium owners. Their house, their rules. Suck it up.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Hmmmm, let's see one fight here or there among thousands of games - yep, that paranoia suiting you?

Over zealous fans, momentary highs and lows as scores change, rivalries, ALCOHOL, and guns

What a "winning" combination

Want to carry your gun inside so you can feel like a big man and be safe?- no ALCOHOL SALES

Which route do you think the stadium owners and team owner will take, selling beer/booze for exorbitant profits, or alienating a few folks who are afraid to go anywhere without a gun?

Don't hold your breath

You asked for evidence oneounce. I showed you three links and that was a quick google search.

If you have a CCW you cannot consume ALCOHOL. Kind of against the law. And even with CCW most states allow those how have them to go into restaurants that serve ALCOHOL. And guess what? No gun fights.

Over zealous fans, momentary highs and lows as scores change, rivalries, ALCOHOL, and guns

So at Buffalo Wings here in Texas, a 'sports bar' they have this 'Over zealous fans, momentary highs and lows as scores change, rivalries, ALCOHOL, and guns....." and guess what? No gun fights!

You can have ALCOHOL SALES and guns. Done all the time here in Texas. And guess what... no gun fights.

Deaf

 

[Deaf Smith]

I have some remnant antigunner worries about stadiums. They are loud, noisy, chaotic, and there is a lot of emotion running rampant. What if a brawl breaks out between drunk, enranged gun packers? I know that I am being irrational here, but it's always in the back of my head 'what if some idiot managed to somehow get a permit and bring in something to start a fight?' I have to say that stadium carry ought to be legal.

Yes but do you think those with CCW permits, who CANNOT DRINK alcohol, will be the ones acting like that?

Here in Texas if you have a CHL (a CCW) and if you even break a Class 'C' misnomer (including cussing) you can loose your license.

And that is why CCW holders are way way more law abiding than the general population.

Check the DPS website here in Texas and you will find CHL holders, as a percentage of the population, are very well behaved!

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/convrates.htm


Deaf

 

[Mike1234567]

I can't cuss if I have a CHL? Boy, am I in trouble. I cuss all the time. Not at people in anger... just cuss like a sailor.

 

[Exeter]

I think a more likely scenario is a sober ccw getting confronted by an aggressive unarmed drunk during the game. Draw on him and (especially these days) there's a better than even chance you'll get swarmed by everyone behind you and wind up on the evening news as 'gunman captured during game.' Fire the gun at the aggressor and better hope the round doesn't exit his body because if it does, you will almost certainly hit someone else, too, and now you've wounded or killed an innocent bystander. Now you can really kiss goodbye to your life as you knew it, because even if you avoid prison, the civil suit will relieve you of everything you ever had or will have.

A crowded sports stadium is a nightmare firearm self defense scenario. If you're that worried about your personal safety at a football game, stay home and watch it on television.

 

[Sam1911]

If you have a CCW you cannot consume ALCOHOL. Kind of against the law.

Depends on where you are. Remember, there are states where doing so is not against the law -- like here in PA.

Strangely, while it is lawful for our citizens to drink (no limit specified) while carrying, we have no dicernable resultant problems. No blood in the streets, no inebriated shootouts between lawfully armed bar patrons.

Just doesn't seem to be a problem. Somehow we manage to control ourselves.

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

I think a more likely scenario is a sober ccw getting confronted by an aggressive unarmed drunk during the game. Draw on him and (especially these days) there's a better than even chance you'll get swarmed by everyone behind you and wind up on the evening news as 'gunman captured during game.' Fire the gun at the aggressor and better hope the round doesn't exit his body because if it does, you will almost certainly hit someone else, too, and now you've wounded or killed an innocent bystander. Now you can really kiss goodbye to your life as you knew it, because even if you avoid prison, the civil suit will relieve you of everything you ever had or will have.

A crowded sports stadium is a nightmare firearm self defense scenario. If you're that worried about your personal safety at a football game, stay home and watch it on television.

While I don't agree with you, this is probably the best post opposing my opinion that I've seen in here. If we could all keep it civil like this, without condescending and rude remarks, we might be able to get somewhere.

I don't tend to carry based on being worried about a lawsuit, or someone assuming wrongly what my intentions are. If I pulled my weapon and fired, it would be to save my life. Everything that happened afterwards is something I would live with, as long as I'm living. I made the decision and I'll deal with the consequences of those actions. I understand that some people aren't comfortable with something like that, and I'm OK with that.

Also, I'm not a huge fan of your last statement. I don't believe that my options should be go unarmed or don't go at all. That's how we lose our rights, and I refuse to give into that mentality.