Do fixed sight S&W revolvers shoot to POA?

[wcwhitey]

Like the others have stated the S&W Model 10 was factory regulated for the 158 RNL at 755 FPS. Was the standard for many decades. So in theory that is what they will shoot POA. But no two guns are exact and a barrel can have a slight cant. A front sight could have been used as a screwdriver (seen it) too many times and put your groups off. I have had many pass through my hands, I only have a 2” 10-5 left in the collection. For the most part they all loved anything 158 Grain and even in +P they should still hit that can quite easily. Great guns and most are more accurate than the average person can shoot.

 

[Tallball]

I have umpteen fixed-sight revolvers. One (not a Smith) does not shoot close to POA. All of the others are fine. The only reason I tend to shoot the adjustable-sight models better is because the sights are bigger.

 

[243winxb]

well regulated

Comes down to luck of the draw. Any revolver with a barrel longer then 2" needs adjustable signts.
Like this-


My short barrels at 25 yards. About as good as it gets with fixed sights.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Using run of the mill 158 grain plinking loads I want to be able to put the sights on a tin can at 30 yards, pull the trigger, and see the tin can move.

Define "158 grain plinking loads".

I shoot factory 158 grain loads all the time, but they are standard velocity, what ever that is.

I like to put an empty soup can at the berm at 25 yards at my club. Soup cans react better than aluminum soft drink cans because the steel soup can offers more resistance to the bullet. Sometimes a bullet passes through an aluminum (cans have not been made from tin for over 100 years) can and the can barely moves because the aluminum offers little resistance.

I like to do my soup can shooting sitting from a rest. I am much too shaky to try and hit a small target 25 yards away standing off hand.

My favorite revolver for shooting soup cans at 25 yards is this 38 Special Model 14-3. Not so much because of the adjustable sights, but the 6" barrel seems to work a bit better than a 4" barrel.






I don't think I have ever shot the Soup Can Challenge at 25 yards with a Model 10, I will have to try once the weather warms up. I have two Model 10-5s, both have 4 inch barrels. I would not be surprised if I had to use a little bit of Kentucky Elevation with a 4" Model 10.

 

[bluetopper]

I do have a 3 inch model 65-5 that was shooting low that I had to file some off the front sight.

I had much rather them shoot too high as too low.

 

[UncleEd]

To put it practically, even brutally, the 3- and 4-inch revolvers (and the
vast crop of autos today) with fixed sights are not designed to shoot
tin cans at 25 yards, they are designed to shoot people and most
usually at 15 yards or under. If needed, they will also easily hit
man-sized targets at 25 yards as well.

Anyone see as a practical matter the world's military choosing
sidearms with adjustable sights? No. Also meant to shoot
people in tight combat situations.

Put simply fixed sighted handguns are not your "range toys"
nor hunting firearms.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I'm looking at getting a fixed sight Smith & Wesson Mod 10-5. I am not a fan of using "Kentucky windage" and would be very irritated if the gun didn't shoot pretty close to POA. Are Smiths, particularly the Model 10, well regulated from the factory or should I anticipate issues?

Seldom!

But with a vise and a Babbitt bar can be corrected within limits.
I only have three fixed sighted revolvers, all are 2” .38’s.
Only one hits where it looks...

All others, including three model 10’s have adjustable sights.
Those three wear either a Mascot or Aristocrat ribs....

 

[Rodfac]

Every handgun is a law unto itself, meaning it may or may not shoot to the sights...important factors will include the loads you are shooting and your own personal technique. No tellin' till you try it out, sad to say. Regards, Rod

 

[bluetopper]

To put it practically, even brutally, the 3- and 4-inch revolvers (and the
vast crop of autos today) with fixed sights are not designed to shoot
tin cans at 25 yards, they are designed to shoot people and most
usually at 15 yards or under. If needed, they will also easily hit
man-sized targets at 25 yards as well.

Anyone see as a practical matter the world's military choosing
sidearms with adjustable sights? No. Also meant to shoot
people in tight combat situations.

Put simply fixed sighted handguns are not your "range toys"
nor hunting firearms.

Agreed, but I want them to hit where I aim them also.

 

[35 Whelen]

Put simply fixed sighted handguns are not your "range toys"
nor hunting firearms.

Nonsense.

The last several years my hunting has been primarily with SA handguns, Colt reproductions, with fixed sights, with which I've taken several head of deer, hogs and a javelina. Shots have ranged from 12 to 48 yards and off the top of my head at least five head of game were shot at over 40 yds. I'll allow that these style handguns don't offer the best sight picture, certainly not as good as most adjustable sights, but I found that with diligent and consistent practice, good groups out to 75 yds. were really pretty easy.

Adjustable sights do not make a handgun any more accurate than one with fixed sights. The Model 10-5, and in fact every Model 10-x I've owned (four of them so far)have fixed sights that are easily seen and as easy to see as the adjustable sights on my Model 15. When I'm on my game, that is I've been practicing, I have no problem hitting my 12" steel at 100 yds. with any of my Model 10's (See Post #25), or for that matter my old S&W 3rd Model Hand Ejector .44 Special-



Here's a challenge for those of you who think you can only shoot accurately with adjustable sights. Take your favorite revolver with adjustable sights, adjust them so they are centered, and go shooting. Do not adjust the sights but keep shooting for days, weeks, etc. just shoot, shoot, shoot. I assure you that unless your pistol is a mis-manufactured POS you will through experimentation with grip, grip angle, trigger control and following through after the shot, learn to hit the center of the target.

Sometime back @Driftwood Johnson wisely pointed out that if one goes to gun shows and studies used handguns with adjustable sights, they will find that many of them have their windage adjusted to the right because of the tendency of right-handed shooters to "push" the trigger, which causes shots to land left of POA. That to me is proof that adjustable sights can be a crutch of sorts.

35W

 

[Mosin Bubba]

My 10-6 is soda can accurate at 25 yards with 158gr bullets. I haven't bothered to put it on paper... if it's not shooting to PoA, it's pretty darn close.

 

[Switup]

Most modern fixed sight revolvers are regulated to shoot POA with a specific weight/velocity projectile. Many times adjusting POI is as simple as changing ammo. My 637 shoots POI to POA with both my handloaded 125s and 158s, but I adjusted powder and/or charges. In most cases a gun that shots a few inches low or high from POA @ 20 yards is a moot point in the distances of most SD/HD scenarios.

 

[NeroM]

Nonsense.
The last several years my hunting has been primarily with SA handguns, Colt reproductions, with fixed sights, with which I've taken several head of deer, hogs and a javelina. Shots have ranged from 12 to 48 yards and off the top of my head at least five head of game were shot at over 40 yds. I'll allow that these style handguns don't offer the best sight picture, certainly not as good as most adjustable sights, but I found that with diligent and consistent practice, good groups out to 75 yds. were really pretty easy.
Adjustable sights do not make a handgun any more accurate than one with fixed sights. The Model 10-5, and in fact every Model 10-x I've owned (four of them so far)have fixed sights that are easily seen and as easy to see as the adjustable sights on my Model 15. When I'm on my game, that is I've been practicing, I have no problem hitting my 12" steel at 100 yds. with any of my Model 10's (See Post #25).
Here's a challenge for those of you who think you can only shoot accurately with adjustable sights. Take your favorite revolver with adjustable sights, adjust them so they are centered, and go shooting.

AGREE !!

 

[UncleEd]

OK, so a fixed sighted short barreled handgun can
be used to ambush, kill unsuspecting grass eating,
root eating critters.

One time I parked down near the Big Bend and a
bunch of javelinas walked all around my car. I
guess I could have rammed one of them or two.

 

[cxm]

S&W revolvers do shoot to POA... IF...If you use the same ammunition used by the factory to regulate the sighting of the gun when it is made.

For a model 10 it is probably regulated for 158gr lead round nose.

FWIW

Chuck

I'm looking at getting a fixed sight Smith & Wesson Mod 10-5. I am not a fan of using "Kentucky windage" and would be very irritated if the gun didn't shoot pretty close to POA. Are Smiths, particularly the Model 10, well regulated from the factory or should I anticipate issues?

 

[35 Whelen]

OK, so a fixed sighted short barreled handgun can
be used to ambush, kill unsuspecting grass eating,
root eating critters.

One time I parked down near the Big Bend and a
bunch of javelinas walked all around my car. I
guess I could have rammed one of them or two.

Sorry. I'm not making the connection of an animals diet and the type sights used to hunt said animal. FWIW, one of my two longest shots (48 yds.) was on one of the diminutive rodents you saw in Big Bend.



It was probably the most difficult shot I've ever made, yet it was made with a fixed-sight revolver.

I think the fixed-sight stigma prevails simply because handgunners shoot pistols with these sights, don't hit where they aim and assume the firearm just doesn't shoot straight and needs adjustable sights to correct the problem.

35W

 

[film495]

My 10-7 seems to. Myself and a friend were hitting 6" steel gongs at 25 yards consistently. Never shot paper at that distance, but - that seemed spot on to me. I'm unable to do that with any other pisol I have so, it seemed spot on and something about a fixed barrel seemed to me to make it easier to shoot at distance.

 

[WestKentucky]

My 10-6 is the same gun as the 10-5 only with a different barrel configuration. Even dash guns are heavy barrel, so all else being the same, we would have essentially the same gun. My 10-6 has the best trigger of anything in the safe by far. Incredible trigger. Could be a tad better, but not by much so I’m leaving it alone. It does shoot to POA with just about everything I have put in it. I had a red dot mounted for a while and determined that it was no faster for sight acquisition so I went back to simple. I have had several other S&W fixed sight guns as well as other brands, and as a rule they shoot very close to POA. The ones that are off end up being like a good shotgun, even if they are a tad off you mentally correct it and shoot the corrected sight picture and still get hits when your used to that gun.

 

[UncleEd]

When I wrote the short barreled fixed sighted
revolvers were not designed as "range toys"
nor hunting guns, the implication was of course
that better handguns were designed for such
tasks.

The revolvers I described were, again, designed
to shoot man-sized targets in SD. And around
the world they were sold on that premise.

I never said they couldn't be accurate.

Quite a few folks like and admire Hickok45 and
his prowess with short barreled, fixed sighted
handguns. But his hit rate is, well, hit and miss
very often as he stands on his two legs
and pops away. Where he excels is close-in
DA at mid sized targets, using the guns for
exactly what they were designed to do.

.

 

[Jim Watson]

Dean Grennell wrote that he had several Chief's Specials, M36 and 60, each tagged with the load and range that it was on target with. He used them to demonstrate that a "snub nose" need not be inaccurate.

 

[mavracer]

It depends on whether Joe, Bob or Dave assembled it and what day. Bob sometimes doesn't pay close attention on Friday afternoon and Dave is hungover on Mondays.
Characters in this post are fictional and I mean no offense to Joe, Bob or Daves everywhere.

 

[Armored farmer]

My new (to me) 10-5 shoots high with factory 158s. A six o'clock hold sends oil filters (or soup cans) rolling.

Model 10s are selling pretty cheap on GB right now. I just bought my second one in as many weeks.

 

[35 Whelen]

My new (to me) 10-5 shoots high with factory 158s. A six o'clock hold sends oil filters (or soup cans) rolling.

Model 10s are selling pretty cheap on GB right now. I just bought my second one in as many weeks.

Try firming your grip just a tad.

35W

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Years ago, I got a chance to buy a Colt New Service in .45 Colt, very cheaply. It had been reblued and buffed so vigorously that the markings were blurred. It had a 7 1/2" barrel with a front sight about as thick as a razorblade and a rear notch to match. It shot very small groups, but 18" high and a foot to the left.

I tried everything and finally cut the barrel to 5 1/2", mounted adjustable sights and put a set of Herrett grips on it. Nowadays, everyone who sees it tries to buy it -- and when they see how it shoots, they raise their offers.

 

[gwpercle]

Fixed sighted revolvers shoot to point of aim with one bullet weight at one velocity and at one distance .
Find the correct load and shoot at the correct distance and you will be good ...change anything and that's where you need to know where your revolver shoots .
I do quite well with the model 58 S&W in my avatar ... fixed sighted , N-frame , 41 Magnum .
I thought the fixed sights would be a problem but I shoot it enough to know where to aim at different distances ... it's realy not much of a problem for a good shot ... just practice , you'll get the hang of it in no time !
Gary