Do hammered shotguns have inherent flaws?

[Hokkmike]

Thinking about getting a CZ hammered double barrel, probably in 12 gauge, to go with my .45 Colt rifle & six gun. I am open to 20 if that is a debate.

Do hammered shotguns have any operational, cleaning, or other problems that users have come to learn about?

Thanks all....

 

[3Crows]

I am not sure but I suspect modern external hammer shotguns would have to have a part cock, rebounding hammer, transfer bar or a cross bolt safety or some combination thereof. Not necessarily a problem for a shotgun. For a defensive weapon to be used against toothy critters or mean two legged varmints, I would not want a rebounding hammer or a transfer bar, I can live with a CBS or part cock, either being alone or in combination.

 

[Mizar]

3Crows, I have no clue what you are trying to say... Shotguns have rebound hammers since the end of the 19th century and I have yet to see an external hammer shotgun with a transfer bar.

Do hammered shotguns have any operational, cleaning, or other problems that users have come to learn about?

If it's build well there are no problems - they only require an extra operation to get ready, so you might consider them being slow in operation.

 

[Chevelle SS]

I have 3 hammer SxSs, 2 Rossi coach guns, and a CZ Hammer Classic. No problems come to mind other than a greater snagging potential. I used to have one of those inexpensive Chinese hammer coach guns that had an issue with the bolt that held the LH hammer on would periodically loosen, but never fell off. Never had that problem with the three hammer guns I own currently and I have shot them far more than that Chinese gun.

One nice benefit of external hammer guns is when you open the action the barrels fall right open as there are no hammers to cock by opening the action. Also you don't have to worry about storing the gun with the hammers cocked as with a concealed hammer gun.

 

[jmr40]

You do have to exercise a little more caution with them. If you cock a hammer and for some reason don't fire a shot it is possible for it to slip and create an unintentional discharge as you de-cock it. And be careful when walking through thick brush as one of the hammers could be pulled back and released also discharging the gun.

But that is true with most any exposed hammer fired gun.

I was never comfortable cocking both barrels at the same time and that makes them a little slower to get off 2 shots. But that was probably just my paranoia.

I started my hunting and shooting with a SXS 20 with exposed hammers that belonged to my grandfather. I've used one enough to know I prefer enclosed hammers on a shotgun. Those have been around long enough to be considered old school enough for me.

 

[Mizar]

And be careful when walking through thick brush as one of the hammers could be pulled back and released also discharging the gun.

They do have a half cock (safety) notch, you know... If you have a gun that can slip the sear in half cock, I suggest to stop using it immediately and go see your friendly gunsmith. Decocking a hammered shotgun is a pretty straight forward process - just release the trigger as soon as the hammer clears the sear. That way, even if the hammer slips under your thumb, it will be stopped on the half cock notch by the sear. And the gun in question has a manual safety, that is blocking the triggers, making it rather safe to carry with cocked hammers. A hammered shotgun with manual safety is no different than a hammerless one - both can be safely carried "cocked & locked". It's just that a hammerless gun is presumed "safer" because you don't see the hammers - what you don't see doesn't scare you...

 

[paul harm]

Mizar has submitted very excellent information.

 

[jamesinalaska]

Yes. All shotguns have inherent flaws. That said, I sold all my other shotguns to buy a CZ Hammered Coach. Have not had a problem with mine and -unlike gas operated guns- don't expect any in the future (O-rings, for example).

We are not a family that hunts, we are fisher people and we know how to do that real well. When we go off to the rivers and the beaches, our van and campsite smells like fish (it is unavoidable) and is an attractant to forest critters that eat such.

Every person in my family can safely and reliably operate the CZ Hammer Coach whereas only myself and my oldest son could reliably operate the pump shotgun. And that is why I bought the CZ, because everybody can comfortably and safely shoot it, which just wasn't true with the other shotguns.

The CZ was certainly more expensive than the Rossi I looked at, but it is far superior in my opinion, and selling the others to afford the CZ was difficult, yes, but worth it in tbe end. The CZ goes with us on every trip, and everybody in the bus knows how to safely use it if needed To me, that peace of mind was worth the price.

 

[Jim Watson]

As Mizar says, the CZ Hammer has a top tang safety like a hammerless gun and can be used as such.
I wonder if the top snap will open the barrels with the tang safety engaged. That would get you out of the "cocked but did not shoot" problem.

Makes me think of the contortions of a Trapshooter with a release trigger who gets a broken bird and has to restart.

 

[buck460XVR]

I have 3 doubles with outside hammers as well as a model 97 with the outside hammer. You learn how to cock them as you raise the gun until it becomes a reflex action. The only issue is.......You also have to learn how to uncock them safely. Not a big issue for most folks.

 

[Thomasss]

I wouldn't call them flaws. That is how they were created 150 years ago and at the time that was "high tech". I am sure I can find quirks with a lot of shotguns today that will be thought of as strange in the not too distant future. Part of the fun is shooting those old guns. For example, Browning Superposed O/U had angled firing pins which didn't always ignite primers from some shotshell mfrs. And the current Browning 725 O/U is set to only shoot the top barrel first, which most skeet shooters detest.

 

[Jim Watson]

And the current Browning 725 O/U is set to only shoot the top barrel first, which most skeet shooters detest.

Say what? A fancy gun like that without selective single trigger?

 

[PapaG]

No.

 

[paul harm]

I believe the 725 has a selective safety and either barrel can be fired first. Just about all clay pigeon shooters use the bottom barrel first. The recoil is more straight back so the second shot is quicker. Thomasss, have you ever shot a Browning 725 ?

 

[.38 Special]

Well, I'm pretty happy with mine.



The only thing I'd be aware of is that the hammers - at least on the guns I've used - take some effort to cock, which may come as a surprise to someone who's never tried them. It takes some practice for it to become second nature. And of course, a tang safety on a hammer gun is kind of dumb, in my opinion, but it's easy enough to pretend it's not there.

Otherwise, there isn't really anything to watch out for. I enjoy mine a great deal!

 

[DM~]

I'm very happy with mine,



It's my around the house "pest control" gun.

DM

 

[Ranger99]

Just me- I never had any of the
problems with the guns I've used
with external hammers
No inadvertent hammer cocking or
accidental discharges.
Keep your fingers off the trigger
until you're ready to fire.
Guns like a mossberg 500 I've
had are cocked and ready all
the time when there's a round
in the chamber. Savage 99's,
Remington 700's , 870's , model
70's , etc. etc.
There's no totally fool proof anything

 

[Thomasss]

I believe the 725 has a selective safety and either barrel can be fired first. Just about all clay pigeon shooters use the bottom barrel first. The recoil is more straight back so the second shot is quicker. Thomasss, have you ever shot a Browning 725 ?

Yes, and I sold mine for the very reason I stated. You said "I believe".... Are you sure or are you assuming. Have you ever tried to shoot a 725 bottom barrel first???

 

[PapaG]

I shoot with at least ten 725 shooters and every one of them has a selective trigger. You pick what you want to shoot first, set it and forget it.

 

[mcb]

I would think in a race to three shots the exposed hammer double with extractors is going to be significantly slower than a modern double with internal hammers and ejectors.

 

[Thomasss]

I shoot with at least ten 725 shooters and every one of them has a selective trigger. You pick what you want to shoot first, set it and forget it.

I never said it didn't have selective triggers. I did say one could not shoot the bottom barrel first. And although that may sound odd with selective triggers that was my situation along with a lot of other people. One gentleman said extra pressure had to be put on the barrel selector switch in order for it to go a little down farther for the bottom barrel to fire.
Browning has not said anything officially, and many dealers have said the majority of owners are satisfied with their 725s, but that would be only 51% or so and that is a p*** poor percentage. The 725 has mechanical triggers; that is a second trigger pull will switch barrels and fire supposedly the second barrel, but its not an inertia sys. in which recoil switches the barrels for shooting.
Browning did say their trigger system isn't 100% mechanical. It needs a little inertia in order to become totally mechanical...Oops. One can shoot snap caps ok, but not light loads. Barrels sleeves for shooting smaller shells have been a problem too. Browning is now working on their third generation of firing pin springs for the 725. Oops again. Browning has not issued any recall. They have had a whole bunch of problems with the 725. Like stock fitting incorrectly and influencing fire control; Like the bottom barrel not firing at all because of a sear issue. Like fire control parts that are too rough and need to be polished up. Like dust and dirt in the receiver coming from the factory. Like, improper lubrication in the trigger assembly. Guns have been sent back for warranty. Many gun smiths are finding quick fixes for some issues. Another o/u mfr. had similar issues but has corrected their problems. I hear that once all the problems are "ironed out", it's a good shooting gun.

 

[PapaG]

Selective means you choose the order. I just checked two this morning. You can shoot bottom first.

 

[mcb]

I never said it didn't have selective triggers. I did say one could not shoot the bottom barrel first. And although that may sound odd with selective triggers that was my situation along with a lot of other people. One gentleman said extra pressure had to be put on the barrel selector switch in order for it to go a little down farther for the bottom barrel to fire.
Browning has not said anything officially, and many dealers have said the majority of owners are satisfied with their 725s, but that would be only 51% or so and that is a p*** poor percentage. The 725 has mechanical triggers; that is a second trigger pull will switch barrels and fire supposedly the second barrel, but its not an inertia sys. in which recoil switches the barrels for shooting.
Browning did say their trigger system isn't 100% mechanical. It needs a little inertia in order to become totally mechanical...Oops. One can shoot snap caps ok, but not light loads. Barrels sleeves for shooting smaller shells have been a problem too. Browning is now working on their third generation of firing pin springs for the 725. Oops again. Browning has not issued any recall. They have had a whole bunch of problems with the 725. Like stock fitting incorrectly and influencing fire control; Like the bottom barrel not firing at all because of a sear issue. Like fire control parts that are too rough and need to be polished up. Like dust and dirt in the receiver coming from the factory. Like, improper lubrication in the trigger assembly. Guns have been sent back for warranty. Many gun smiths are finding quick fixes for some issues. Another o/u mfr. had similar issues but has corrected their problems. I hear that once all the problems are "ironed out", it's a good shooting gun.

That sounds like a quality issue. The gun is suppose to have selectable trigger/barrels but due to some poor quality control many guns are not functioning correctly. You are suppose to be able to shoot the bottom barrel first if desired and if you can't then you have a defective gun not a defeatured gun.

I have four doubles, 3 O/U and 1 SxS. They ranging in price from a Browning Citori to a cheap Noble (I paid less than $200 for used) and they all have functioning barrel selectors. The selector is part of the safeties on the Browning and Remington, on the trigger with the Fausti and double triggers on the Noble.

 

[Jim Watson]

That is weird. My Broadway and Citori have no such problems with SST.
What have they "forgotten?"

 

[PapaG]

Urban legend.