Do I need a crimp for AR platform rifles?

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Shooter14854

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Hey everybody I’m new to reloading and have a question about crimping. I shoot a lot of .223 rem out of an AR15 as well as .308 win out of an AR10. Do I need to be crimping the rounds for either of these guns? As of now, I do a mild-moderate crimp using the lee factory crimp die. I also shoot .260 Remington from a bolt gun (4 round mag) and I don’t crimp those. I’m not sure if it’s necessary to be crimping for the AR platforms. Thanks for help!
 
I just load with a taper crimp and have never had a need in my 223 bolt gun or AR types to roll crimp or use a factory crimp die. I have a few factory crimp dies and never had a need. I would try as suggested, load a few and see what works for you. I have loaded 223 Remington using both RCBS and Lee dies and never used a crimp or gave it much thought but see what works for you.

Ron
 
No crimp gave me better accuracy. I don't have issues with bullet setback either.
If you shoot well enough to see the difference. Then you might want to run the test yourself.
 
I crimped 223 for a few years. Guys here talked me out of it and testing showed no difference.
 
I give everything 223 a bit of a squeeze with an fcd. Out of habit I guess. I've found if you crimp the snot out of bullets with no cannelure they are definitely deformed and I have blamed pierced primers on the the crimp before when I had none with same pill and powder only far less squeeze on the case neck. CCI 400 primers BTW, 450s would have helped.
 
I loaded and shot NRA hp XTC service rifle matches for many years with M1 Garand. Never crimped a reload. Shot AR 15 for predator hunting for a number of years without a crimp and it worked fine......until it didn't. If you unload and rechamber the same round numerous times, it can loosen "neck tension" & set the bullet back into the case sooner or later, and ya got a real mess. A charge of ball powder in the chamber/magazine in the field is not a pleasant way to spend your time when you could be callin' critters.
I now crimp my predator ammo to avoid this problem, but only on predator hunting ammo.

If you shoot every round you chamber, it is not normally necessary to crimp, even for SA rifles.

Regards,
hps
 
My general rule is that if I am reloading boat tail bullets I don't crimp because I can seat them without having to flair or bell the case mouths even slightly in order to avoid shaving.

If I am reloading flat-based spire point spitzers ... if I gotta bell or flair even slightly in order to allow me to seat the projectile without shaving, then I factory crimp ever ever so slightly. Not much at all but I make sure everything is copacetic.

I dunno, it's always worked for me.
 
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For a rifle I’ve built and tuned, and ammo I’m loading for hunting or long range shooting, I don’t crimp. For a factory built carbine, especially an inexpensive Mil-spec carbine, and ammo I might chamber and eject multiple times, I crimp.
 
I don't even crimp for my M1 Garand or Romanian PSL, and both of those are far more violent in action than the AR series. I would go with a general no. The exception would be if you're loading ammo for personal defense or hunting and repeatedly chambering and unloading a round. Even then, with inspection of that first round and discard to the "plinker pile" when it gets a bit sketchy looking will suffice.
 
I don't crimp any of my reloads, doing so I loose accuracy. This goes for AR-15 and LR-10 in 6.5 CM.

Like others have said chamber and check for yourself. I'm running 0.003" neck tension on my AR-15's.
 
Most of the ammunition I load for AR’s is not crimped .223 or otherwise. While I do crimp some, I never do if the bullet doesn’t have a cannelure.
 
While I do crimp some, I never do if the bullet doesn’t have a cannelure.

Same here. I do crimp my blasting ammos... but that is just cheap FMJ bullets.

It took me a long time to get used to the idea that semi-auto rounds don't have to be crimped. Key is neck tension, as has been mentioned. This does require judicious case inspection... a case with a cracked neck can allow bullet setback, which is never a good thing.
 
IIRC military spec ammunition in self loading actions is crimped, to prevent bullet setback while rapidly feeding ammo into chambers in combat.

For target purposes, a lot don't crimp, and it's acknowledged it's a complication in sorting out a good recipe for a load. However, military ammo is 2MOA specification, made on government owned equipment run by a contractor paid to do to spec and tested. They get the results. As said above, if you don't have a problem with bullet set back, then it's not a problem. Another reason for crimping, or at least having some neck tension, is that if the round is relatively loose, then as it chambers it may also be knocked off it's coaxial center. If the bullet tip is more than .002 off axis, then it loads and jumps into the rifling off axis, and spirals down the barrel to be projected at any position of the clock it arrives at. That causes dispersion, ie, opens up your group. It's considered acceptable if it's kept to 2MOA in a combat weapon, as the point of impact is an 18" center of mass target, or, 18MOA at 100 yards, close to the most common range at impact. Combat rifles are commonly still in use with 6MOA dispersion and some noted to 8MOA before a new barrel is installed, with well over 50k rounds thru it. Target shooters are known to replace a barrel at 2-4000 roundsbecause the group opened up .25MOA - knocking them out of the top ten. It would still be a great barrel for almost all other purposes, you could say it was broken in. You'd be money ahead to build a deer rifle with that used barrel.

Target shooters have much more precise demands and invented the coaxial runout check to reduce opening up groups. If little to no crimp is working for you, then checking runout is the next step in improving accuracy. If rough use, combat accuracy, lack of setback and uncompressed loads are important, you crimp. Considering how feed ramps are gouged into barrel extensions on AR15's, not crimping is a reloaders choice, but it was spec for ammo intended to be used and even cross level issued to other soldiers using different weapons of the same cartridge. It also goes to milspec bullets often have a cannelure to set that crimp in, thereby keeping it from bulging out and jamming while loading. That's been an issue with some reloaders using different bullets in alternative cartridges where that bullet was invented for bolt action use, no cannelure. Crimping with too much pressure that causes a bulge will also cause jamming. Using a bullet with a cannelure meant for a specific cartridge goes to getting the OAL set for it, not some incremental MOA improvement that other finesse may provide. Sometimes the quick and easy reloading gambit gets more attention than it deserves.

If someone is running plinking ammo for busting dirt berms in a semi auto I would at least Lee crimp it to reduce set back and compressing loads. The worst case situation is a compressed high pressure round which exceeds the brass cartridges pressure rating.
 
I do both. Something for accuracy like a VMax or SMK no crimp. Something for general range/training FMJ or SP, I crimp in the cannelure but it's a real light application of Lee FCD. I notice better accuracy/tighter groups not crimping a VMax. I notice no difference crimp/no crimp with a Hornady #2266 or #2267 so it just seems like i *should* since cannelure is present. It also makes 0 difference if there's a crimp die in station #5 or not. If I was doing it single stage and that meant running everything thru another step just to crimp I most definitely would not.
 
Do you need to crimp? Not with good neck tension. I shoot both .223 out of an AR15 and .308 out of an AR10 as well. My accuracy/target loads I don't crimp. My hunting and "blaster" loads I put a light crimp in the cannelure with the Lee FCD, and that's more of habit than necessity.
 
I do not crimp any of the ammunition that I load for semi-auto rifles except 30 Carbine. (30 Carbine gets a taper crimp to remove the mouth belling since it head spaces on the case outh.)

This includes AR-15's (numerous different cartridges), M1's and an M1A.

Like FROGO207, I crimp ammunition used in tubular magazine rifles. All of mine are lever action and shoot straight walled handgun cartridges.
 
I've never crimped my ammo in AR platforms. Nor for a M-1 or M1-A's. And I've never had a problem. But some reloaders do.
 
You should definitively crimp or not crimp depending on what gun you are using and what forum and thread you read.
Many manuals say to crimp when using in semi autos.
Forums tell you to use #41 primers, manuals and online data do not.

So it is a definite maybe, sometimes almost always.

FWIW (not) I lightly crimp. I sleep better at night.
 
Reminds me of an old Supertramp song from the Breakfast in America album. So as to crimping: Goodbye Stranger

"Now some they do and some they don't
And some you just can't tell
And some they will and some they won't
With some it's just as well"

So it all comes down to doing what works best for you and your rifles.

As to crimping deforming a bullet and reducing accuracy? Most of us have seen the horror story pictures online of deformed bullets. Here is one such example.
Bullet%20Crimp%20Damage.png

Someone seems to have gotten carried away. Really good bullets are expensive so it would be nice not to destroy them before they ever leave a muzzle. Below are a few examples and note the bullet on the left only received a light crimp. Take a cartridge and once the bullet is seated press it against a hard surface with simple hand force. Does it move? No? Then it's just fine.

Crimp%202.png

The lower image is my doing. The upper image is one I found somewhere, no clue where. :)

Ron
 
So just a reminder as I stated before I only crimp when absolutely necessary given a specific bullet and/or a specific load mentioned in my post above but ....

... I was out there today running a batch of 500 ct 150 gr 300 BLK and it hit me that it would be dishonest for me to say I rarely crimp with 5.56 when, in fact, I actually crimp all of my 77 gr SMK Mk262 clones and I load those copiously. Those are 77 gr SMKs with cannelure and crimped with cannelure is a whole-lot more accurate than crimped w/o cannelure or uncrimped without cannelure.

I was well aware of Tirod's info above when I went after an MK262 clone knowing the DOD crimp requirement. But I figured mine would be better uncrimped without cannelure .... it didn't work-out that way. Not even close. And I've seen that happen before where crimped with cannelure outperformed uncrimped w/o cannelure.

Matter of fact I remember reading in one of the reloading manuals where, when Black Hills Ammo was working-up the MK 262 to meet DOD specs ... Sierra initially told them to pound sand when Black Hills asked them to put a cannelure on the 77 hr SMK. But then lo and behold and to everyone's amazement not onoy was it more accurate but they squeezed a bit more velocity out of it and turned the lowly 22 into a fairly devastating little squad marksman and squad sharpshooter round out to something like 300 meters ... more maybe. I mean they pushed it sub moa at 77 grains to something like 2850 fps if I remember correctly.

Thank you mrs cannelure and mr crimp.

But as already mentioned here, and I am reiterating .... it is all about what kind of crimp and where on the cannelure and how much and all of that. But I wouldn't dismiss crimping with cannelure in self loading semi autos of any sorts. There's really no harm in doing it if you do not overdo-it.

I should probably crimp more often for my M1a service rifles than I do ... they say crimped service rifle ammo lasts longer and is far more waterproof than uncrimped. So that's another reason I suppose.

I think I don't do it more out of laziness than anything else, when loading 5.56 plinkers and range ammo. More succintly I don't do it unless I am going to do it right.
 
I have gone both ways, and my general rule is that spitzer bullets don't need it, blunt nose do. I get better accuracy (probably psychological but my best shots were from the crimp group) from the loads that used the LFCD.
I don't crimp .308 at all, with one exception, but I shoot Speer TNT's and they have no cannelure.
In .308, sometimes I will shoot 110grain 30 carbine bullets. I do crimp these. They do not have a cannelure either, but as Lee says "if the bullets has no cannelure, it will make one". Bullet setback can be dangerous, a jam is far better. If your bullet seater die has a crimp feature, I would use it unless it causes poor accuracy. There's really no reason not to use one, except potential accuracy, assuming the bullet has the cannelure


Ignore this if you have no interest in 300 AAC
The one round for the AR that needs crimped is the .300 AAC. I run those 30 carbine bullets in that cal., with reasonable success, but they are prone to hitting the extension, and the bullet setting back to dangerous levels. With the heavy crimp, they don't telescope, and make it into the barrel, and run fine. The big reason to crimp that cal. more than any other is the possibility to chamber in a .223 barrel.
 
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