Do I need to size brass after pulling bullets?
- Thread starter wombat13
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USSR
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Depends upon how much neck tension you require. For an autoloader, definitely. For a boltgun, maybe not.
Don
Don
Thanks for the reply. How can I tell how much neck tension I will need? The rifle is chambered in .300 win mag. I guess I should resize the cases just to be safe.
Craigman
Member
If, when seating, they feel real loose. Resize. If you're just loading up range type ammo or messing around/plinking, dont worry about it. If its the hunt of a lifetime....well maybe. I usually just "feel" it out and decide from there.
Not an easy answer, many reloaders can not answer the question because of conflicts, that would be conflict with previous answers, as in, the case gets longer when the neck sizer is pulled through to expand the neck. Then there is the neck tension thing, they measure neck tension in thousands, I can measure bullet hold coming and going, anything else is crush or interference fit. They fire to form then neck size 5 times and then full length size and start over, and that is the reason your question can not be answered with out conflicts.
Turk ammo sold for $2.70 for 70 rounds in bandoleers, corrosive primers and cupio nickel bullets.
Added to the fact the Turk ammo was hot and split too often I pulled the bullets, weighed the powder, then stored the Berdan primed cases and started over by forming 30/06 cases, 1,400 30/06 cases for .01 cent each for a total of $14.00 dollars and a RCBS trim/forming. Most of the cases had 49 grains of flake powder, I reduced the load to 45 grains and replaced the bullets to get away from the the Turk bullets.
http://www.odcmp.org/1101/can.pdf
The additional information helps, When you pull the bullets you will have a clue as to the ability of the neck to hold the bullet, if you are using the hammer, it is a wild guess, if you are using a bullet puller, cam lock or colet you are less likely to damage the bullet.
The only neck that is shorter than the 300 Win mag is the 30 Gibbs, the Gibbs neck is .217 long, my opinion the 30 Gibbs is too short, when forming cases I try to get all the additional neck length I can get, in my opinion the neck on the 300 Win mag is short and when someone says bullet seating should be at least one diameter of the bullet and the 300 Win Mag neck is .264 I think to myself ????? that is .044 thousands short and when seating the bullet deeper into the neck the bullet takes up space, for powder and or raises pressure.
So I would suggest neck sizing the 300 Win Mag cases and I do not know how many times the cases have been fired and sized and neck sized again, neck tension, the theory goes south after the first firing, do not allow someone to talk you into purchasing pin gages, pin gages do not measure bullet hold or tension? Pin gages measure crush or interference fit.
F. Guffey
Turk ammo sold for $2.70 for 70 rounds in bandoleers, corrosive primers and cupio nickel bullets.
Added to the fact the Turk ammo was hot and split too often I pulled the bullets, weighed the powder, then stored the Berdan primed cases and started over by forming 30/06 cases, 1,400 30/06 cases for .01 cent each for a total of $14.00 dollars and a RCBS trim/forming. Most of the cases had 49 grains of flake powder, I reduced the load to 45 grains and replaced the bullets to get away from the the Turk bullets.
http://www.odcmp.org/1101/can.pdf
The additional information helps, When you pull the bullets you will have a clue as to the ability of the neck to hold the bullet, if you are using the hammer, it is a wild guess, if you are using a bullet puller, cam lock or colet you are less likely to damage the bullet.
The only neck that is shorter than the 300 Win mag is the 30 Gibbs, the Gibbs neck is .217 long, my opinion the 30 Gibbs is too short, when forming cases I try to get all the additional neck length I can get, in my opinion the neck on the 300 Win mag is short and when someone says bullet seating should be at least one diameter of the bullet and the 300 Win Mag neck is .264 I think to myself ????? that is .044 thousands short and when seating the bullet deeper into the neck the bullet takes up space, for powder and or raises pressure.
So I would suggest neck sizing the 300 Win Mag cases and I do not know how many times the cases have been fired and sized and neck sized again, neck tension, the theory goes south after the first firing, do not allow someone to talk you into purchasing pin gages, pin gages do not measure bullet hold or tension? Pin gages measure crush or interference fit.
F. Guffey
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243winxb
Member
Measure the case neck before & after seating a bullet. Has the neck expanded .001" or more? If so, you are ok.
Yes, the case will get longer on full length sizing.
Wombat13, you are doing fine, problem with advise on the Internet, no one measures before and after, if you are using the 'trim to length' keep up with the number of times the cases have been fired, something else that is not done is keeping up with the weight of the case from new/never fired to wore out, or as they say case head separation.
Length of the case and the book, I have chambers that are not in the ball park of Sammy's specs, not a problem, I determine the length of the chamber from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber and from the bolt face to the beginning of the throat, one rifle is .016 thousands longer than a minimum length/full length case, when sizing cases for that chamber I add .014 thousands to the length of the case from the bolt face to the shoulder of the case and .016 thousands to the length of the case as opposed to mindlessly trimming the 30/06 case to 2.494 the cases are trimmed to 2.508.
Trimming before or after? in the old days reloaders had a problem with the pilots that came with case trimmers, seems if the case was sized and then trimmed the pilot and the reloader got into mortal combat trying to get the pilot into the neck and again after removing after trimming, then it became a choice, trim before sizing or grind the pilot, problem, after grinding the pilot the reloader did not have a way of determining the bullet hold of the sized neck, but that was before the Internet.
There there was the question, "If it is that tight why do they say size first then trim"? The piolet fit before sizing, the answer? CAUSE.
F. Guffey
Length of the case and the book, I have chambers that are not in the ball park of Sammy's specs, not a problem, I determine the length of the chamber from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber and from the bolt face to the beginning of the throat, one rifle is .016 thousands longer than a minimum length/full length case, when sizing cases for that chamber I add .014 thousands to the length of the case from the bolt face to the shoulder of the case and .016 thousands to the length of the case as opposed to mindlessly trimming the 30/06 case to 2.494 the cases are trimmed to 2.508.
Trimming before or after? in the old days reloaders had a problem with the pilots that came with case trimmers, seems if the case was sized and then trimmed the pilot and the reloader got into mortal combat trying to get the pilot into the neck and again after removing after trimming, then it became a choice, trim before sizing or grind the pilot, problem, after grinding the pilot the reloader did not have a way of determining the bullet hold of the sized neck, but that was before the Internet.
There there was the question, "If it is that tight why do they say size first then trim"? The piolet fit before sizing, the answer? CAUSE.
F. Guffey
FROGO207
Member
I would pull the decapping pin and size as usual after taking apart the rounds. This will keep you from having to remove and reinsert the primer. It is safe if you go slow and remove the decapping pin before you do it, there is nothing to crush the primer with then so not an issue of going off. Then you will know that you have the same tension as any other reload that you assemble when you are done.
USSR
Member
Not if you have an expander ball on the decapping pin. You will have more tension than your other reloads.
Don
gamestalker
member
If neck tension should be too light it could allow a bullet to set back enough to cause a very high pressure spike, depending on how much set back hapened.
I am only neck sizing these cases. Will that minimize the change in length between before and after sizing? (I full length sized the new cases only).
Wombat13, when the neck is sized down it gets longer, when the neck is sized up it gets shorter, when neck sizing a sized case the expander expands the neck first (neck shortens) when the ram reaches the top of it's travel the neck is sized down (neck gets longer), then the ram is lowered and the sizer ball is bulled through the neck, the sizer ball expands the sized neck and as a results the neck gets shorter.
If the case had been fired the sizer ball does not touch the inside of the neck when the ram is raised because the neck expanded when fired.
There is a theory, some believe the neck gets thicker and or thinner, I suggest measuring before and after.
F. Guffey
If the case had been fired the sizer ball does not touch the inside of the neck when the ram is raised because the neck expanded when fired.
There is a theory, some believe the neck gets thicker and or thinner, I suggest measuring before and after.
F. Guffey
243winxb
Member
The case will not grow very much,if at all, when neck sizing. The biggest change in trim length will come with full length resizing as you work the case body. Before loading, always check the trim length, even if you only neck size. If any brass exceeds maximum trim lenght , trim it.
FROGO207
Member
USSR Good point. That is if it is a LEE, on all other die sets that I have you can remove JUST the decapping pin and size the round without dealing with removing the primer. On the lee you can't do this easily without probably breaking the decapping pin. With the Lee you can probably slide the decapping rod up enough that the primer will stay in and the neck will still be sized (worked with my Lee 223 and 308 dies when tried). The OP did not say what his dies are so caution is advised.
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