MountainPeak
Member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2002
- Messages
- 784
I'm happy to see more patriotic stickers. I'm sad when I see the sniping by gun owners about NRA vs. GOA vs. JPFO etc.. Join them all, I did.
Do those post=9/11 "Freedom" stickers sicken you too?
- Thread starter Drjones
- Start date
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labgrade
Member In Memoriam
MtnPeak,
Can't argue, but I could point out a couple - my own perspective though.
Patriotic stickers, I'd betcha aren't.
More "nationalism" or the prior-stated "group hug." Isn't there some form of meaning behind these to actually be patriotic?
C'mon. If somebody just slaps a sticker on their car, ,doesn't mean they have any cklue as to the "what fors" & "how comes" of being "patriotic" in the least.
Anything "feel good & herd-like" is merely that.
I wouldn't feel too fuzzy about anything "patriotic" just 'cause you see some stickers.
I sure don't.
& I don't see gun owners sniping. Fact is, there's such a huge gap betwixt gun owners as to be unrecognizable.
The gap between The Clays Guys versus The Black Rifle Folk might as well be Brady versus Heston (as if).
Point of fact. The NRA is seen by many as a purely political entity to serve themselves & do nothing much in the way of preserving our rights - GOA as much less-so.
A validity there.
Sniping will take place due to a perceived variance between what is seen to be happening versus what needs to be.
& I believe a reality.
Just that it happens between "you & me," both gun owners doesn't make it any less true.
Can't argue, but I could point out a couple - my own perspective though.
Patriotic stickers, I'd betcha aren't.
More "nationalism" or the prior-stated "group hug." Isn't there some form of meaning behind these to actually be patriotic?
C'mon. If somebody just slaps a sticker on their car, ,doesn't mean they have any cklue as to the "what fors" & "how comes" of being "patriotic" in the least.
Anything "feel good & herd-like" is merely that.
I wouldn't feel too fuzzy about anything "patriotic" just 'cause you see some stickers.
I sure don't.
& I don't see gun owners sniping. Fact is, there's such a huge gap betwixt gun owners as to be unrecognizable.
The gap between The Clays Guys versus The Black Rifle Folk might as well be Brady versus Heston (as if).
Point of fact. The NRA is seen by many as a purely political entity to serve themselves & do nothing much in the way of preserving our rights - GOA as much less-so.
A validity there.
Sniping will take place due to a perceived variance between what is seen to be happening versus what needs to be.
& I believe a reality.
Just that it happens between "you & me," both gun owners doesn't make it any less true.
MountainPeak
Member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2002
- Messages
- 784
labgrade, I can assure you I don't feel "fuzzy" about anything. I just happen to prefer more patriotic images than less. I have no idea the depth of understanding of what patriotism means by anyone displaying a flag. The "sniping" I mentioned is simply something that happens to annoy me. People that support "hunting rights" and not "the right to bear arms" drive me nuts. I am not one of those gun owners that says "why would anyone need THAT kind of firearm?" My point is simply expending energy fighting each other doesn't help hunting or 2nd Amendment rights. The NRA needs a harder edge, in my opinion, in fighting for the cause I believe in. They do however help elect many politicians that support my beliefs. The JPFO and GOA actually put off some of the people I know. These people are wrong and I constantly am trying to explain to them why! Any group that helps support my beliefs gets my support. Any group that I'm a member of gets my prodding to suck it up and do MORE. I just think it is defeating the over all effort to "snipe" at friends. I spend my time attacking the anti-gun groups. We both know there are plenty of them out there.
labgrade
Member In Memoriam
Perhaps The Crux, MtnPeak & why I'll never "fly the flag" again. Matter of perspectives.
"They [the NRA] do however help elect many politicians that support my beliefs."
Do they?
From what you indicate in your posts, I'd argue the point - to a point. They do assist in the election of some polticos who support the 2nd, while at the same time advocating the election of a bunch who don't - those who are merely politically astute enough to be tabled as "pro gun."
Even still, NRA assisted/ sponsored Project Exile. Bastards! What great poltical savy they garnered by touting enforcing current (unconstitutional) laws to stave off further encroachments - while ..... helping to further the Brady checks.
uh-hunh.
Yeah, give me a whole bunch more of these kinds politicos & I'll sell you down the river. Will take a bit longer - but you'll like it.
Tell ya what. If we ever win back any of our freedoms, the NRA-folk are out of a job. What's their incentive there?
Their politico-rating system is as bunk as their "cold, dead hands" message.
Reason a bunch of folk are put off by the GOA/JPFO message is that they tell the truth - usually a pretty hard sell these days.
No slam, sir, far from it, but I'll not ever give in to the lesser of the evils. The NRA is that - a slip-shod/stop-gap (if that sop to those who'd want to believe what they say they stand for). I've had it with 'em.
Yup. The NRA "helps" more than they hurt, except for their appeasment mentality to "buy time" - which sucks anyway. Never worked, never will. They eat your money, tell you lies, whilst making a good living.
I'd called 'em whores, except the former give you better measure for your money. Likely, you'd have a better time without being lied to.
Other than that ..... I'd agree.
Reason I "snipe" at friends is to knock some sense in. Most don't get it & I'd like to have you over for a face-to-face.
We've just a couple basic tenents regards our country & your liberties; our bill of rights is inviolate & they're written that way for a reason.
I think they're a bit of a wussy-speak. No matter, I wasn't around & they'll do for now.
In the meantime, they're being used as toilet paper, not worth the rag they're printed on.
... an hour later, after being distracted by a phone call, I've lost my thought train .....
Oh well.
"They [the NRA] do however help elect many politicians that support my beliefs."
Do they?
From what you indicate in your posts, I'd argue the point - to a point. They do assist in the election of some polticos who support the 2nd, while at the same time advocating the election of a bunch who don't - those who are merely politically astute enough to be tabled as "pro gun."
Even still, NRA assisted/ sponsored Project Exile. Bastards! What great poltical savy they garnered by touting enforcing current (unconstitutional) laws to stave off further encroachments - while ..... helping to further the Brady checks.
uh-hunh.
Yeah, give me a whole bunch more of these kinds politicos & I'll sell you down the river. Will take a bit longer - but you'll like it.
Tell ya what. If we ever win back any of our freedoms, the NRA-folk are out of a job. What's their incentive there?
Their politico-rating system is as bunk as their "cold, dead hands" message.
Reason a bunch of folk are put off by the GOA/JPFO message is that they tell the truth - usually a pretty hard sell these days.
No slam, sir, far from it, but I'll not ever give in to the lesser of the evils. The NRA is that - a slip-shod/stop-gap (if that sop to those who'd want to believe what they say they stand for). I've had it with 'em.
Yup. The NRA "helps" more than they hurt, except for their appeasment mentality to "buy time" - which sucks anyway. Never worked, never will. They eat your money, tell you lies, whilst making a good living.
I'd called 'em whores, except the former give you better measure for your money. Likely, you'd have a better time without being lied to.
Other than that ..... I'd agree.
Reason I "snipe" at friends is to knock some sense in. Most don't get it & I'd like to have you over for a face-to-face.
We've just a couple basic tenents regards our country & your liberties; our bill of rights is inviolate & they're written that way for a reason.
I think they're a bit of a wussy-speak. No matter, I wasn't around & they'll do for now.
In the meantime, they're being used as toilet paper, not worth the rag they're printed on.
... an hour later, after being distracted by a phone call, I've lost my thought train .....
Oh well.
stellarpod
Member
Funny, when you hear the Brady bunch spewing vermin from their mouths it's always the NRA they're aiming at - not GOA/JPFO.
When the Ted Kennedys of the world are calling for more gun control it's the NRA they aim at - not GOA/JPFO.
When the Barbara Streisands of Hollywood continue to poison the minds of the populace it's the NRA they pound on - not GOA/JPFO.
Call me stupid, but it's fairly apparent to me that it's the NRA that's crawling under the anti's skin. The other guys don't even seem to be on the radar screen. That doesn't mean the other's are not worth supporting. But, to try to relegate the NRA's role in maintaining the fight for 2nd Amendment rights to insignificance is just plain nonsense.
I don't lock-step with any single oganization, including the NRA. There is room for improvement. But, jeez folks! If you're going to bash at every opportunity then at least be honest enough to give praise where it's due.
Labgrade: You write, "They do assist in the election of some polticos who support the 2nd, while at the same time advocating the election of a bunch who don't - those who are merely politically astute enough to be tabled as pro gun.
Anyone who listened to the NRA's messages during the last campaign heard them specifically admonishing the "newly-enlightened" liberal politicians, who, as wolves in sheeps clothing did not merit support just because they discovered that, to most people sounding pro-gun equated to BEING pro-gun. The NRA has graded politicians based upon voting history, not idle soundbite chatter.
Perfect? No, but I don't see ANY other organization doing as much for our cause. Obviously, some of you disagree.
stellarpod
(still proudly flying the colors wherever I can)
When the Ted Kennedys of the world are calling for more gun control it's the NRA they aim at - not GOA/JPFO.
When the Barbara Streisands of Hollywood continue to poison the minds of the populace it's the NRA they pound on - not GOA/JPFO.
Call me stupid, but it's fairly apparent to me that it's the NRA that's crawling under the anti's skin. The other guys don't even seem to be on the radar screen. That doesn't mean the other's are not worth supporting. But, to try to relegate the NRA's role in maintaining the fight for 2nd Amendment rights to insignificance is just plain nonsense.
I don't lock-step with any single oganization, including the NRA. There is room for improvement. But, jeez folks! If you're going to bash at every opportunity then at least be honest enough to give praise where it's due.
Labgrade: You write, "They do assist in the election of some polticos who support the 2nd, while at the same time advocating the election of a bunch who don't - those who are merely politically astute enough to be tabled as pro gun.
Anyone who listened to the NRA's messages during the last campaign heard them specifically admonishing the "newly-enlightened" liberal politicians, who, as wolves in sheeps clothing did not merit support just because they discovered that, to most people sounding pro-gun equated to BEING pro-gun. The NRA has graded politicians based upon voting history, not idle soundbite chatter.
Perfect? No, but I don't see ANY other organization doing as much for our cause. Obviously, some of you disagree.
stellarpod
(still proudly flying the colors wherever I can)
Last edited:
King
Member
Still fly mine too.......
rick458
Member
Exscuse me for being Clueless but what is the Patriot Act?
labgrade
Member In Memoriam
This could go down the tubes toot sweet. 
Likely to get nasty.
stellarpod,
I cannot count the times the NRA's message has changed a bit to reflect their "newly-enlightened" political/strategic themes.
I've an original American Rifleman magazine herabouts that touts favorably the ideas of the '68 Gun Control Act. Sickening. I've seen much the same in their ratings of politicos time & time again.
They are as astutely political as are their competition. Both "sides" are out for "votes," which equates to political power, money & brute force through the perceived "we can molbilize more" threat.
NRA helped write the GCA '68, they sold out machine gunners in '86 & helped draft the Brady Act .... more.
I've sat in our Colorado Guv's Executive Chamber whilst discussing freedom issues with this Guv'ner - a private meeting. He's The New Best Fave All Time Republican. Wins hands down!
He spouts the political garbage as rote. So does the NRA.
When a dog pisses on a fire hydrant, he isn't commiting vandalism, he's just being a dog.
Get used to it. Learn it & know where these dogs are coming from.
They do it because it is their nature. I'd not subscribe anything evil (necessarily), but they do it nonetheless.
That they do it at all, is contrary to our interests.
NRA may have made some "pro-freedom-type" conjectures somewhere, but as an elected delegate to CO's 4th Congressional, 49th local (state-level congressional) & State-level caucus for everything else, I'd say I've some inkling to what's been said hereabouts. Besides having my ear to the ground somewhat .....
NRA was totally absent here. & ya know why? 'cause they figured they didn't need it. No monetary expendature, nada.
Yup, we pulled the straight Repub ticket in CO = whoop!
Likely, as huge compromise CCW bill will be issued & vastly Repub-supported for: added training, added restriction reagrds carry locations, added restriction as to everything else where & when. On it goes.
This is the implicit buy-in by our "pro-gunnys."
Within the month, I'll be out tactically tagging mailboxes of those who supported these "pro-gun" yahoos, because this type are the ones that will sell us down the river.
Nothing so sordid, sir, as being personal, but you have much to learn.
Likely to get nasty.stellarpod,
I cannot count the times the NRA's message has changed a bit to reflect their "newly-enlightened" political/strategic themes.
I've an original American Rifleman magazine herabouts that touts favorably the ideas of the '68 Gun Control Act. Sickening. I've seen much the same in their ratings of politicos time & time again.
They are as astutely political as are their competition. Both "sides" are out for "votes," which equates to political power, money & brute force through the perceived "we can molbilize more" threat.
NRA helped write the GCA '68, they sold out machine gunners in '86 & helped draft the Brady Act .... more.
I've sat in our Colorado Guv's Executive Chamber whilst discussing freedom issues with this Guv'ner - a private meeting. He's The New Best Fave All Time Republican. Wins hands down!
He spouts the political garbage as rote. So does the NRA.
When a dog pisses on a fire hydrant, he isn't commiting vandalism, he's just being a dog.
Get used to it. Learn it & know where these dogs are coming from.
They do it because it is their nature. I'd not subscribe anything evil (necessarily), but they do it nonetheless.
That they do it at all, is contrary to our interests.
NRA may have made some "pro-freedom-type" conjectures somewhere, but as an elected delegate to CO's 4th Congressional, 49th local (state-level congressional) & State-level caucus for everything else, I'd say I've some inkling to what's been said hereabouts. Besides having my ear to the ground somewhat .....
NRA was totally absent here. & ya know why? 'cause they figured they didn't need it. No monetary expendature, nada.
Yup, we pulled the straight Repub ticket in CO = whoop!
Likely, as huge compromise CCW bill will be issued & vastly Repub-supported for: added training, added restriction reagrds carry locations, added restriction as to everything else where & when. On it goes.
This is the implicit buy-in by our "pro-gunnys."
Within the month, I'll be out tactically tagging mailboxes of those who supported these "pro-gun" yahoos, because this type are the ones that will sell us down the river.
Nothing so sordid, sir, as being personal, but you have much to learn.
labgrade
Member In Memoriam
Goto here , rick458, for Patriot Act-stuff-wise.
Likely, it's a compilation of what eventually did become law. These are "just" bill-stuff-things listed.
A bit better detailed search could provide you with what eventually did become law.
It ain't purty.
"Homeland Security" could also provide some enlightening & entertaining evenings' worth of home-schooling. Enough to make you either throw up, or jump on the band wagon & wave the flag - depending upon your mindset regards freedom versus security.
BTW, I still fly my flag. Is just isn't some piece of cloth strung up on the deck. It's held close to my heart - ever closer each day.
It is flying proud & true. Most just can't see it any longer.
Never doubt that.
Likely, it's a compilation of what eventually did become law. These are "just" bill-stuff-things listed.
A bit better detailed search could provide you with what eventually did become law.
It ain't purty.
"Homeland Security" could also provide some enlightening & entertaining evenings' worth of home-schooling. Enough to make you either throw up, or jump on the band wagon & wave the flag - depending upon your mindset regards freedom versus security.
BTW, I still fly my flag. Is just isn't some piece of cloth strung up on the deck. It's held close to my heart - ever closer each day.
It is flying proud & true. Most just can't see it any longer.
Never doubt that.
ACP
Member
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2002
- Messages
- 1,334
The stickers don't bother me so much. And I don't attribute them to "liberals" or "gun grabbers" or people who don't like the flag (that doesn't make sense, does it?) What bothers me is that national voting turnout continues to be at all-time lows even after Sept. 11. If someone wants to impress me they can slap an "I voted today" sticker on their windshield. That shows me they know what America is about, and what terrorists are trying to take from us.
stellarpod
Member
Labgrade:
WHOA! You've got some major rage going on don't you? Who are you pissed at? The NRA? Your governor? The state legislature? EVERYONE? Can you name ONE person or organization that has done right by you 100% of the time? If you can, I envy you. Do I believe the NRA or any other organization represents MY beliefs 100% of the time? Hell NO! But, I'm not prepared to throw the baby out with the bath water.
How dibilitating it must feel to live in "God's country" and have this nastiness going on around you. While all the "natives" in Colorado were pissing and moaning about us Texans and Okie tourists the Californians snuck in and stole your state! Their politics of course were not far behind.
I honestly do admire your attempt to set things right in your state. My hat's off to you for trying to make a difference. As I stated before, I don't embrace everything the NRA says, nor employ every strategy they promote. But, for better or worse they ARE flying the banner for this cause - at least in the eyes of the unenlightened masses. And, by the way, THEY are the ones we're trying to reach, right?
Perhaps your lofty perch allows you a perspective of the seemy side of the NRA that us mere mortals aren't privy to. I for one will continue to support those aspects of those organizations that I find to be palatable and will spit out the rest. I determined years ago that I'd never become a life member because I wasn't sure that the NRA would be an organization with which I wanted to be associated 20 or 30 years down the road.
As one who grew up spending a good deal of my summers in Colorado it saddens me to see that good state being overrun by left-leaning politicos. My father was raised in the 4-corners area, I have a sister in Colorado Springs and my mother-in-law owned a restaraunt in Gunnison for several years. I spend all too little time fly-fishing on the Conejos River every year. I hope your able to turn the political tide for everyone's sake - with or without the NRA's help. But alas, you may have started too late...
stellarpod
WHOA! You've got some major rage going on don't you? Who are you pissed at? The NRA? Your governor? The state legislature? EVERYONE? Can you name ONE person or organization that has done right by you 100% of the time? If you can, I envy you. Do I believe the NRA or any other organization represents MY beliefs 100% of the time? Hell NO! But, I'm not prepared to throw the baby out with the bath water.
How dibilitating it must feel to live in "God's country" and have this nastiness going on around you. While all the "natives" in Colorado were pissing and moaning about us Texans and Okie tourists the Californians snuck in and stole your state! Their politics of course were not far behind.
I honestly do admire your attempt to set things right in your state. My hat's off to you for trying to make a difference. As I stated before, I don't embrace everything the NRA says, nor employ every strategy they promote. But, for better or worse they ARE flying the banner for this cause - at least in the eyes of the unenlightened masses. And, by the way, THEY are the ones we're trying to reach, right?
Perhaps your lofty perch allows you a perspective of the seemy side of the NRA that us mere mortals aren't privy to. I for one will continue to support those aspects of those organizations that I find to be palatable and will spit out the rest. I determined years ago that I'd never become a life member because I wasn't sure that the NRA would be an organization with which I wanted to be associated 20 or 30 years down the road.
As one who grew up spending a good deal of my summers in Colorado it saddens me to see that good state being overrun by left-leaning politicos. My father was raised in the 4-corners area, I have a sister in Colorado Springs and my mother-in-law owned a restaraunt in Gunnison for several years. I spend all too little time fly-fishing on the Conejos River every year. I hope your able to turn the political tide for everyone's sake - with or without the NRA's help. But alas, you may have started too late...
stellarpod
"Do those post=9/11 "Freedom" stickers sicken you too?"
Nope. In fact, I kinda like the idea that Amercans are beginning to again appreciate that which makes our nation so great.
Now, does that mean that I expect everyone to swing around and begin to think the way I'd like them to right away? Nope.
One step at a time.
Nope. In fact, I kinda like the idea that Amercans are beginning to again appreciate that which makes our nation so great.
Now, does that mean that I expect everyone to swing around and begin to think the way I'd like them to right away? Nope.
One step at a time.
labgrade
Member In Memoriam
stellarpod,
Rage? nope. My Mom once said you (me) sound bitter. Nope, I'm not & actually much more care free about this whole than may seem from my posts. Vocal inflection would lend a huge amount of credence to that. I type much nastier than I talk.
Back to Mom's observation though .... told I'm not. I am outraged.
That so much of what we had has been stolen, that we must fight tooth 'n nail to get back even a nodding acquanitance.
Far as anybody being there 100% of the time? You betcha. Several. I attempt to surround myself with such & have not much to do with those who aren't. I fail in my own reciprocation at times, but strive for that. What else is there?
& I'll argue the point that the NRA's flying any banner but their own. Makes no difference that they be the biggest 400 pound monkey on the block. If they're not our monkey - it's open season.
Molon Labe right? We gonna accept 1/2 measures or do we want our rights back?
Rage? nope. My Mom once said you (me) sound bitter. Nope, I'm not & actually much more care free about this whole than may seem from my posts. Vocal inflection would lend a huge amount of credence to that. I type much nastier than I talk.
Back to Mom's observation though .... told I'm not. I am outraged.
That so much of what we had has been stolen, that we must fight tooth 'n nail to get back even a nodding acquanitance.
Far as anybody being there 100% of the time? You betcha. Several. I attempt to surround myself with such & have not much to do with those who aren't. I fail in my own reciprocation at times, but strive for that. What else is there?
& I'll argue the point that the NRA's flying any banner but their own. Makes no difference that they be the biggest 400 pound monkey on the block. If they're not our monkey - it's open season.
Molon Labe right? We gonna accept 1/2 measures or do we want our rights back?
jmbg29
member
Nope.
Mine's good 'til 2050!
Members of my family have served in the defense this country since the late 1800's; when we first began to arrive. Some died, most were injured in the course of duty in one sense or another. Any expression of love for this country (even those whose depth is measured in nano-meters) is welcome.
I suppose that having personal investment in our freedom gives me that perspective.
DeltaElite
Member
Don't bother me at all.
Judgemental people who think their version of patriotism is better than someone elses, now they bother me.
Judgemental people who think their version of patriotism is better than someone elses, now they bother me.
rick458
Member
I think we shall ALL see our Patriotism tested very soon, we have upset many people through acts of our government ,that were wholly out of our control, or even knowledge. Hell is gonna come knocking on our doorstep, and it is doubtful a good .45 will get us clear of trouble.
I do so hope I am wrong
I do so hope I am wrong
JohnBT
Member
Last summer my 75-y-o neighbor was taking her flag in for the night. The college professor who lives across the way walked out in the middle of the street and yelled, "That's right, take it down, keep it down."
I'd like to see more flags and stickers and less of some of my neighbors.
John
I'd like to see more flags and stickers and less of some of my neighbors.
John
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