Do you change your SD ammo during winter months?

[TomJ]

I recently came across an article in which the author mentioned changing the ammunition in his carry gun for the winter due to the need to penetrate additional clothing. That had never occurred to me, and I was wondering if anyone does so, especially in colder climates where heavy winter coats are the norm.

 

[Darkstar888]

Ehh. I personally carry the best of the best all year round. Federal HST or Speer Gold Dots.


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[Robert101]

Nope, I don't change due to seasonal conditions. I basically find that load that follows the old FBI penetration standard and go with it. I will rotate my ammo depending on how long it sits in my hot car (every few years). But that is an entirely different matter. By the way my typical go-to ammo is Federal HST or Winchester Ranger T in 40 S&W.

 

[Jimster]

Good question. Maybe I should switch to ball ammo in my .45. Wouldn't that give more penetration through clothing layers? I carry Hornady Critical Defense right now.

 

[C0untZer0]

Ehh. I personally carry the best of the best all year round, 147gr Winchester Ranger "T" Series - RA9T

 

[chicharrones]

No changes in ammo. I live near the Gulf Coast so clothing changes aren't extreme enough for me to think about.

 

[Schwing]

Nope and I don't rotate it more than every few years at best either. Several years ago, I concerned myself more with this. There are all kinds of opinions etc. about the necessity of, not only using different ammo during different times of the year, but also the "Danger" of using using old self-defense ammo because of setback. That is a topic for another thread so I won't hijack yours. The bottom line for me (after much deliberation and tests of my own) is that way more thought and energy gets spent on this topic than it is worth.

 

[VoodooMountain]

Any good self defense bullet will penetrate a hoodie and still have good terminal ballistics year round.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Nope. FMJ's year round.

 

[cfullgraf]

FMJs year round here as well.

 

[Darkstar888]

You guys better live in NJ where that's legally mandated for some unimaginable reason or your making a pretty reckless and perhaps uninformed choice. FMJ is not only less effective at stopping the assault but also many times more likely to overpenetrate.


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[Good Ol' Boy]

You guys better live in NJ where that's legally mandated for some unimaginable reason or your making a pretty reckless and perhaps uninformed choice. FMJ is not only less effective at stopping the assault but also many times more likely to overpenetrate.


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1. HP's can and have passed through human bodies.

2. You should always know what's beyond your target regardless of ammo type.

3. It's clearly visible under my name that I'm from Virginia.

 

[Chuck R.]

Nope no changes here either, 90% of the time I carry a 357Sig with 125 Gold Dots, the other 10% I'm carrying 147 Gold Dots.

I'm not expecting any penetration issues due to extra clothing.

Chuck

 

[Darkstar888]

Not visible on the Tapatalk app sorry. But sure HP have passed through. Anything is possible. But significantly more likely with a FMJ. I just can't imagine a good reason to choose them for defense. But hey not everyone is interested in making an informed choice.


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[Malamute]

The issue isn't that your expanding load of choice isn't going to make it through heavy clothing, its that older hollow point designs could clog up and not expand properly, thereby acting like a full jacket. To intentionally use a full jacket load because of this makes absolutely zero sense, you are getting the worst possible end result guaranteed, with no chance of expansion.

The better current hollow point loads are designed to function correctly when shot through heavy clothing. Theres quite a bit of high quality testing on the subject.

To use a FMJ by justifying it by saying sometimes a hollowpoint fully penetrates isn't computing. Intentionally handicapping ones load performance right off the bat. I don't get the point. Help me out here.

Having shot some game with FMJ and RN bullets in 45 autos, 44 spl, and 45 Colts left me utterly underwhelmed. Almost anything is an improvement.

 

[chicharrones]

But significantly more likely with a FMJ. I just can't imagine a good reason to choose them for defense. But hey not everyone is interested in making an informed choice.

Interesting.

My informed choice leads me to FMJ because I feel the calibers in the pocket guns I carry won't penetrate far enough.

Step it up to a service size handgun and JHP is my choice.

 

[Malamute]

My informed choice leads me to FMJ because I feel the calibers in the pocket guns I carry won't penetrate far enough.

Step it up to a service size handgun and JHP is my choice.

Very good point in the context you framed it in.

 

[Darkstar888]

I'm pretty confident in the performance of both my HST and Gold Dots out of a 3.5 inch barrel between 16 and 18 inches of penetration with excellent expansion to boot. I guess maybe if your carrying a barrel shorter than that but I never would anyway.


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[Good Ol' Boy]

Not visible on the Tapatalk app sorry. But sure HP have passed through. Anything is possible. But significantly more likely with a FMJ. I just can't imagine a good reason to choose them for defense. But hey not everyone is interested in making an informed choice.


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There's nothing uninformed about it.

Ball ammo has worked for quite a long time in both military and civilian use. Just because someone doesn't concede to your idea of "proper" ammo to carry doesn't mean squat.

I'm not concerned with the "maximum possible damage" done by a single bullet, it's why I carry more than one. It's certainly not something I want to be defending in court should the issue ever arise.

As I mentioned, HP's are just as capable as FMJ's at over penetrating and the only thing you are gaining with HP's is a slightly more devastating wound channel.

Either way, you should ALWAYS know what's beyond your target. If you follow that practice than over penetration is a non issue, whether it be a JHP or FMJ or whatever.

 

[Darkstar888]

Ball ammo worked for a long time until HP were designed which work better. Muskets worked for a long time too but I doubt your carrying one now. And no one has ever had an issue defending the use of HP ammo in court. Especially given the fact it is what the police use. It's not about causing maximum damage but about having the maximum effect at stopping an attack. I would rather be justifying my one or two rounds of HP than emptying a mag full FMJ into an attacker. Even the US military is switching to HP for all the reasons presented. HP were designed to stop on the attacker without over penetration. Is it possible for them to pass through. Sure, but a FMJ is designed to pass through. And while knowing what's behind your target is ideal it's not a guarantee. There's no way to be 100% sure what's on the other side of a wall unless you have X-ray vision. And there may be bystanders in the distance behind an attacker who has his gun aimed at your head and is about to fire. You bet your bottom dollar he's gonna take a round or two and I'll be glad I'm using HP ammo when it stays in the target.


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[Barry the Bear]

Well I have moved to a part of Texas where we now get a change of seasons, During the warm months I carry remington FBI load in my .38 and also carry federal's SWCHP in .44 spl , During winter the .38 load remains the same , the main caliber either .44 spl or .45 colt gets loaded with keith swc.

 

[JO JO]

I carry same type year long but do shoot it and replace it every 6 months

 

[CDW4ME]

There's nothing uninformed about it.

Ball ammo has worked for quite a long time in both military and civilian use. Just because someone doesn't concede to your idea of "proper" ammo to carry doesn't mean squat.

I'm not concerned with the "maximum possible damage" done by a single bullet, it's why I carry more than one. It's certainly not something I want to be defending in court should the issue ever arise.

As I mentioned, HP's are just as capable as FMJ's at over penetrating and the only thing you are gaining with HP's is a slightly more devastating wound channel.

Either way, you should ALWAYS know what's beyond your target. If you follow that practice than over penetration is a non issue, whether it be a JHP or FMJ or whatever.

Depending on caliber, maybe excluding pocket calibers, FMJ likely over penetrates.
I'll use 45 acp as the example.

A 45 hollow point that doesn't expand will penetrate like FMJ, Lucky Gunner tests has good examples:
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
Sig V Crown 200 gr. penetrated 31'' of heavy clothed gel
Starfire 230 gr. that did not expand also went 31''
In contrast 230 HST penetrated 14'' and expanded to .85
230 gr. Ranger T penetrated 14.5'' and expanded to 1.00

FBI / police typically want ammo that penetrates 12-18'' of heavy clothed gel.
230 HST is in the middle of that range, with impressive expansion.
230 Ranger T is in the middle of the recommended range plus making a hole twice as big as FMJ
Non-expanding or FMJ exceeds the 18'' maximum by an additional 13''

45 acp FMJ = minimum wound diameter for caliber + over penetration.

An expanding 9mm HP performs better than 45 FMJ
HST 147 gr. 15.2'' / .61
Ranger T 147 gr. 16.5'' / .74

 

[MIL-DOT]

"....you should ALWAYS know what's beyond your target..."

This is unrealistic and nearly impossible to "always" do, or even have any reasonable hope of doing, for the average citizen in a adrenalin-charged, once-in-a-lifetime self defense shooting.
We hear, as nauseum, how dangerous it supposedly is to have a safety on your carry piece, because of the confusion or .02 seconds delay in response it may cause, yet in that same time period we're expected to have the presence of mind to factor in what's behind the target?? Gimme a break.
If you're carrying a couple bags of groceries out to the car in the Walmart parking lot, and two guys materialize out of nowhere, whip out knives, and start closing the gap fast, forcing an instant firing response, then there ain't a one of us here that is going to have any clue about what's behind them, much less alter their actions to avoid it.
This nonsense ranks up there with this "shot placement is everything" idiocy that's also constantly parroted on all the gun forums.

 

[C0untZer0]

There is some ammo that does better against heavy clothing than it does against light clothing.

In .40 S&W, The 180gr bonded Winchester RA40B produces 14.8" penetration in bare gel with .67" expansion but 21.8" penetration and only .51" expansion through 4x denim with similar results against heavy clothing.

The 165gr Winchester "T" Series RA40 only produces 12.7" penetration in bare gel with .61 expansion but 14.3" penetration and .68" expansion against heavy clothing.

There is an example of where you might not want to use the RA40B in the winter because of over-penetration, but you might want to use it in the summer, and you might use the 165gr RA40 in the winter because it seems to have better terminal ballistics against heavy clothing than its RA40B counterpart.