Do you ever worry about an assailant wearing body armor?
- Thread starter MUSICALGUNNUT45
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45_auto
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musicalgunnut45 said:
Any references, or are you just making this up like the rest of the stuff you've been posting lately?
firesky101
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+1 for the tokarev if you looked in my safe you would be sure i was a communist
NavyLCDR
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Nope. Life is too short to spend worrying about every what if that is possible.
AlexanderA
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In most "street crime" that people tend to worry about, the criminals don't have it together enough to think about donning body armor. Doing so implies a degree of pre-planning and sophistication that would be difficult to prepare against. Unless you're a bank manager or a jewelry-store owner, don't worry about it.
Bobson
Member
It's irrelevant, IMO.
There are some things I just won't allow myself to stress over; everything fully outside my control is included in that list.
All we can really do is keep training and practicing situational awareness. SA won't stop an attacker from wearing armor, but it may stop you from being attacked to begin with.
One thing you can do is practice Mozambique drills if armor is a real concern for you.
There are some things I just won't allow myself to stress over; everything fully outside my control is included in that list.
All we can really do is keep training and practicing situational awareness. SA won't stop an attacker from wearing armor, but it may stop you from being attacked to begin with.
One thing you can do is practice Mozambique drills if armor is a real concern for you.
No
It's 'assailant' by the way.
In formal self defense handgun training, they have the concept of Designated Head Shot (different academies may use different terms) taken only if controlled rounds to center mass are ineffective and the threat remains. Train properly, and you will be prepared.
That's why I'm not worried. It isn't a matter of freaking out about sensationalized, exaggerated, inflated and inflamed hypotheses. It's about preparedness.
cleardiddion
Member
Nope.
Even if the guy(s) are wearing body armor unless I'm encountering robocop or something there always a lot of other targets that aren't armored.
Even if the guy(s) are wearing body armor unless I'm encountering robocop or something there always a lot of other targets that aren't armored.
ColtPythonElite
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I don't worry about it, because part of my bi-annual training included failure drills......Less worry and more training is the plan here.
Loosedhorse
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Do you ever worry...
Reminds me about the line that all persons who have guns for SD are paranoid; the response is, "If I've got a .45 on my hip, what is there to be paranoid about?"
Similarly, if I practice "failure to stop" drills, and my HD gun is a .30 cal, then why would I worry about an assailant with armor?
Reminds me about the line that all persons who have guns for SD are paranoid; the response is, "If I've got a .45 on my hip, what is there to be paranoid about?"
Similarly, if I practice "failure to stop" drills, and my HD gun is a .30 cal, then why would I worry about an assailant with armor?
CoRoMo
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I worry about assailants who arrive in an M1 Abrams. I worry about that all day, everyday. 
cleardiddion
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CoRoMo, why was I drinking a coke while I read that? I'll never know, but I do know that I need a new keyboard.
RevolvingGarbage
Member
Well duh, that's why I now carry around a concussion grenade and Semtex.
(CODMW3 reference, I apologize)
It is a legitimate concern if one lives in an area with very heavy gang activity, and especially areas where drug cartels are active. If you are in that situation, get yourself an FN FiveSeven, or if you are on a budget, a Tokarev or CZ-52 and get some of the hottest commie surplus you can find.
Or do the sensible thing and carry what you would otherwise carry, with the understanding that IF you get into a gunfight and IF your assailant has good body armor and IF that body armor covers him up entirely so that you could not shoot for an unprotected location, that you can always nudge him so that he falls over on his back like a helpless turtle, unable to right himself in his full body EOD gear with strike faces, and then run away and call the Marines.
(CODMW3 reference, I apologize)
It is a legitimate concern if one lives in an area with very heavy gang activity, and especially areas where drug cartels are active. If you are in that situation, get yourself an FN FiveSeven, or if you are on a budget, a Tokarev or CZ-52 and get some of the hottest commie surplus you can find.
Or do the sensible thing and carry what you would otherwise carry, with the understanding that IF you get into a gunfight and IF your assailant has good body armor and IF that body armor covers him up entirely so that you could not shoot for an unprotected location, that you can always nudge him so that he falls over on his back like a helpless turtle, unable to right himself in his full body EOD gear with strike faces, and then run away and call the Marines.
Narwhal
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The-Reaver said:
Did you do any research or find any example of #4 buckshot defeating a SAPI plate or did you just make that up because it sounded good?
No shotgun ammo aside from maaaaaybe a 3" hard cast slug will even defeat level IIIa soft body armor, much less a level IV SAPI plate. And yes, that includes #4 buckshot at "any distance within your home".
Well designed plates are designed to take multiple hits from 30.06 AP rounds; I don't know how many buckshot rounds it would take but let's just say you'd probably empty your magazine without successfully penetrating a level IV plate with #4 buck.
This is one of the biggest strikes against a shotgun, however it can be solved by aiming for the head or pelvis if COM shots do not incapacitate.
It's also a myth that hitting an armor plate with shotgun or magnum pistol ammo is going to cause some kind of blunt force trauma that will incapacitate the wearer. In many cases it has little to no effect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAJmTTXuwCc
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot16_3.htm
Bobson
Member
If that's true, it's a myth I partially bought into.
I can't believe there are people who could take an impact like that and keep right on going. It would have to at least knock them down for a good moment, wouldn't it?
Narwhal
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What sort of impact are you fellows expecting from a shotgun round? It's not going to produce any more "blunt force" trauma on a vest wearer than it did on the shoulder of the shooter via recoil. It might break a rib on a level III wearer but I seriously doubt it would even do that to a level IV plate wearer.
The lethal nature of firearm ammunition comes from its ability to penetrate the body, not "blunt force trauma".
Rail Driver
Member
I'd say it'll probably do some damage to someone wearing IIIA or even III armor.
Take a look at these (courtesy of the box o' truth link I posted earlier):
12ga 00 buckshot
12ga slug
#4 buckshot would likely do much less blunt force injury to the armored target than the 00 buckshot would due to the lower mass of the pellets.
Ever crushed ice in a bag? You can crush it up easily without breaking the bag open. Try putting a wood plank or a frying pan on top of the ice and then apply force to the buffer. Breaking up the ice is even easier now.
A vest my stop penetration but the energy transfer still occurs. Energy cannot be destroyed and energy transfer will happen. Just because penetration does not occur doesn't mean damage will not be inflicted on the wearer. If you get slapped with several hits while in a vest you're probably out of the fight and maybe even alive.
Bobson
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