Do You Keep Records of Private Sales?

[Warp]

I'm still curious as to how a law abiding citizens finger prints show up on a gun that he/she sold? That gun may have passed through several people's hands and yet the only prints on it are from the law abiding citizen of whom the authorities have no finger print records? I'm sorry, I'm just not buying that argument, especially if that gun has moved from one state to another.

That being said, I will never do a private sale to someone I don't personally know, and I will (99.9% sure on this) never buy a gun from someone I don't personally know. I don't own guns in order to sell them. If I do want to get rid of a gun I just take it to my local dealer and sell it to them, then they can do whatever they want with it.

lol

I'm a law abiding citizen with no arrests or anything resembling a criminal record but I've had my fingerprints taken at least a half dozen times, several of which were electronic.

For example...when I got carry licenses (multiple states) I was finger printed.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Because it's illegal to sell to someone from out of state I need to see a DL. I have a standard form that needs to be signed with DL number, make, model and SN of the gun sold. I would also do that for a seller.

We can't do a private sale here anymore but I will keep the records for awhile. They would be available to LEO through my attorney if she wanted to comply. Otherwise I'm not seeing a huge benefit to me to be handing over any documents. The DOJ won't do it so why should I.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

A seller hard up for cash can sell you several guns, then report them stolen to get the insurance $ - says he thinks you broke in and took them. When the cops show up with a search warrant and find you have his 6 pistols and rifles, have fun fighting that one in court...

Wouldn't a seller that was this nefarious just use a fake signature and a fake ID for your bill of sale and then say, "Well, that's not even my signature or name! This dastardly thief not only stole my guns, but faked a bill of sale to cover his tracks!"

 

[leadcounsel]

Wouldn't a seller that was this nefarious just use a fake signature and a fake ID for your bill of sale and then say, "Well, that's not even my signature or name! This dastardly thief not only stole my guns, but faked a bill of sale to cover his tracks!"

Really? You can't think of a single way to prove a signature, or even lift the seller's palm print or finger prints from the signed document which he would have handled?

Even if not, it just goes beyond the pale at some point...

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Really? You can't think of a single way to prove a signature, or even lift the seller's palm print or finger prints from the signed document which he would have handled?

That's funny. Perhaps someone should have replied your equally asinine contrived scenario with, "Really? You can't think of a single way to prove there was a sale arranged, or even show emails, text messages, and phone records leading up to the transaction. "

 

[leadcounsel]

That's funny. Perhaps someone should have replied your equally asinine contrived scenario with, "Really? You can't think of a single way to prove there was a sale arranged, or even show emails, text messages, and phone records leading up to the transaction. "

If you had read my posts, you'd see that I suggested keeping emails/pdfs of sale ads as part of the "record" keeping. I wouldn't rely on phone records because it's almost meaningless and after a few years they are quite hard to retrieve. Same with texts. Phones get replaced, lost, destroyed and those texts disappear. Records of texts are not very helpful.

And being leary of someone willing to commit insurance fraud is hardly asinine.... insurance fraud occurs daily.

 

[oneounceload]

Sorry, dude, you are WAY too paranoid and WAY overthinking this whole thing. Perhaps gun ownership is not for you? At least ever selling a gun seems to be. Go grab a scotch, and as they say on The Chive...."Keep calm and chive on"....

 

[PistolPete45]

I will not sell a gun to just any body to start with . I will sell to a friend I know and trust to be OK Here in NC we are suppose to get a pistol permit when we sell a gun to someone ?? see their CC permit but we are not required to keep the permit or a record . Stupid laws If LE asked about a gun " I sold it " ooooor more likely "That one was stolen check your records " The ones I did sell I sold long ago to good people the few that were stolen over the years well They obviously are in the hands of a criminal aren't they

 

[leadcounsel]

Sorry, dude, you are WAY too paranoid and WAY overthinking this whole thing. Perhaps gun ownership is not for you? At least ever selling a gun seems to be. Go grab a scotch, and as they say on The Chive...."Keep calm and chive on"....

So because I think it's a good idea to keep a record of who I've bought or sold a gun with, I shouldn't own a gun because I'm paranoid? Geesh, glad you're not in charge of who can or can't ...

 

[Warp]

Really? You can't think of a single way to prove a signature, or even lift the seller's palm print or finger prints from the signed document which he would have handled?

Even if not, it just goes beyond the pale at some point...

Do you make sure the seller handles the bill of sale bare handed and then carefully handle said BOS so as to preserve any possible fingerprints indefinitely?

 

[Leader]

Really? You can't think of a single way to prove a signature, or even lift the seller's palm print or finger prints from the signed document which he would have handled?

Even if not, it just goes beyond the pale at some point...

With all these super ninja CSI tricks, don't you think the police would have already found & caught the real bad guy?

 

[oneounceload]

Geesh, glad you're not in charge of who can or can't ...

Well, mental diseases DO disqualify and undue paranoia is one of those......

And your comment is mine to you; it seems that if it were up to you FTF sales would at least need an FFL or be banned in toto

As the quote from Stripes so eloquently said: "Lighten up Francis"

 

[leadcounsel]

Done with this topic - having been called asinine, paranoid, uptight, etc. by the "High Roaders" here... I guess if I'm paranoid after seeing what the criminal justice system can and does do to folks, I take measures to preserve exonerating evidence. Hopefully the heavy hands of justice are never pointed at anyone here....

Take the advice of someone who has worked in the CJ system versus others who have not. Keep records, or don't. Hopefully this conversation has shown who the responsible/experienced folks are versus those who are not for any future readers deciding on whether to do a BOS or keep records.

 

[Warp]

Really? You can't think of a single way to prove a signature, or even lift the seller's palm print or finger prints from the signed document which he would have handled?

Even if not, it just goes beyond the pale at some point...

Do you make sure the seller handles the bill of sale bare handed and then carefully handle said BOS so as to preserve any possible fingerprints indefinitely?

 

[Warp]

Done with this topic - having been called asinine, paranoid, uptight, etc. by the "High Roaders" here... I guess if I'm paranoid after seeing what the criminal justice system can and does do to folks, I take measures to preserve exonerating evidence. Hopefully the heavy hands of justice are never pointed at anyone here....

Take the advice of someone who has worked in the CJ system versus others who have not. Keep records, or don't. Hopefully this conversation has shown who the responsible/experienced folks are versus those who are not for any future readers deciding on whether to do a BOS or keep records.

But I want to know if you collect and preserve finger and palm prints on bills of sale.


BTW: Here is a simple one. Have a dash cam in your car (a good idea anyway) and then conduct the transaction in view of your camera. Save the video.

 

[Leader]

But I want to know if you collect and preserve finger and palm prints on bills of sale.


BTW: Here is a simple one. Have a dash cam in your car (a good idea anyway) and then conduct the transaction in view of your camera. Save the video.

Better yet, use a body cam.
Record audio&video of you checking DL & SS card while getting fingerprints.

 

[herrwalther]

Sad state of affairs when things must be done in view of a notary, multiple witnesses, on camera, with ID, and correct fingerprints.

Done with this topic - having been called asinine, paranoid, uptight, etc. by the "High Roaders" here... I guess if I'm paranoid after seeing what the criminal justice system can and does do to folks, I take measures to preserve exonerating evidence. Hopefully the heavy hands of justice are never pointed at anyone here....

Having worked at multiple stages in the CJ system and then processed through as a defendant, paper and records did indeed save my carcass. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a novel concept on paper.

 

[leadcounsel]

Sad state of affairs when things must be done in view of a notary, multiple witnesses, on camera, with ID, and correct fingerprints.



Having worked at multiple stages in the CJ system and then processed through as a defendant, paper and records did indeed save my carcass. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a novel concept on paper.

Was done with this topic, but just wanted to chime in to say I'm glad that paperwork saved you and you made it through such a stressful and life-changing ordeal. Thanks for sharing also.

 

[plodder]

Nope