Do you load hot?

[JollyWhiteGiant]

For my rifle loads I find that being just under max gives me about my best accuracy.

Most of my loading is for my .45 Colt and my .45 ACP. I bought the Colt as a strictly hunting handgun so all loads are at max. My defence loads for my ACP are just above max, my 200 gr. lead loads are just powerful enough to cycle the action reliably.

Very funny when you compare one set of published data with another, ther can be one heck of a difference between 2 listed maxes, (I can't recall the load but I made one up for my .45ACP according to the powder manufactuer, and it was 2 full grains over what the bullet manufacturer listed. I got overpressure signs.) Double check all max data with at least 2 other sources.

 

[tex_n_cal]

A long time ago I learned that the manuals frequently disagree as to what's max. when you start seeing how much lot to lot difference there is in powders, cases, and guns, you realize you have to figure out for yourself what is max.

I've told people I've never been shy about stuffing powder in brass cases. Never have blown one up, but once in a while I've backed up after going too far.

In strong action guns, I will load for what seems to be the best combo of accuracy and velocity, within the safe limits of the brass, of course. If I see expansion in the solid web of the case, things are getting out of hand!

I have a .300 win mag that is about a 1/8 minute of Elk Rifle with high velocities. If I drop the loads down to factory equivalent, it becomes a one hole rifle.

Ditto a .22-250 - it is safe, but most accurate with some very fast loads.

Other guns, like say my 1896 Krag, or M99 Savage, I stick to factory pressures. They aren't magnums, never will be, but shoot very well and meet my needs. I suppose I could also stuff more powder in my .500-.450 #1 Blackpowder express, too, but it shoots to the fixed sights, and that's good enough for me.

Part of the fun of handloading is the freedom to make adjustments to suit the particular gun you have.

 

[bogie]

Oh yeah - with the 6PPC, in custom competition rifles, the standard way to start loading is to start with the published max, and work up...

 

[Surely]

margin of saftey

farther up in this thread a poster mentioned that some shells have a large margin of saftey and some have virtually none. Does anyone have examples of this? Are you safer loading like a magnum caliber hot, or are they already pushing the max? The particular calibers that Im wondering about atm are 243 win and 338 win mag. Any info?

 

[wanderinwalker]

Depends on the firearm and caliber...

If I am loading 9mm for my Glocks or .45 ACP for my dad's 1911 with extra power springs, I go to whatever is the minimum, RELIABLE power level FOR ME, let my friends/dad/brother shoot it and bump up a few .1s of a grain until it is reliable again. (My dad loads ammo for his KT P-11 that are BELOW book min. They work for him, and work for ME in the Glocks, but not for others. A 9mm for-everybody-always-cycles-load in the Glocks is a mid-charge of Power Pistol and a 124.)

In the 03A3, .260 Mountain Rifle and AR-15 target rifles, I load as hot as is safe while producing good accuracy. In the 03 it means heavy (but about 2gr below max) doses of H4350 and a 168 BTHP. In the .260, it is a 140gr Sierra GameKing over near-max doses of H4350. For the .223, I have found the 77gr Nosler J4 over H4895 to be fast and accurate. But I won't give out my load data except to say it is with Winchester primers, LC cases and is good for 2750 fps over MY chrony. BE CAREFUL WITH THIS INFORMATION. IT IS DEMONSTRATED SAFE FOR ME AND OTHERS, BUT MIGHT NOT BE FOR YOU!

Take care all and don't blow up anything vital!

~Nate

 

[Black Snowman]

I load for accuracy and have never found it around the max. The only loads I put near max are my .50 AE "fun" loads and they're still a bit shy of published max. I do love those H-110 fireballs though If I want more power, I use a bigger gun. I have them ranging from .22 LR through .340 Weatherby and that seems to just about cover my needs athough I'd still like a semi-auto .50 BMG rifle to compliment my .50 AE semi-auto pistol

I have made the mistake, ONCE, of not loading a new powder light enough before working up and did some signifigant damage to my FAL knock-off. Won't be doing that again. Expensive lesson for just being impatcient.

 

[Steve Smith]

Depends on the application.

For my HP competition ammo, yes. For some "fun" .45 Colt ammo, yes. For everything else, no.

 

[cordex]

Depends on the manual.

Actually, I had normally loaded slightly under Hodgdon's specs for Universal Clays under a 230gr pill in .45 ACP - 5.8gr of go-juice (listed max was 6.0 gr). Suddenly, the new manual comes out and I find out I'm actually loading slightly above the new 5.6gr max load. *shrug*

I found that 5.4 works well for a reasonable target load, so I'll probably stick around there, but I know my gun is capable of handling more.

 

[Surely]

wear and tear

curious if excess wear on a barrel is caused just by speed or if its a combination of speed and bullet weight. For example is it harder to shoot a 55 grain bullet at 3900 FPS than it is to shoot a 85 grain bullet at 3200 fps? Im talking mainly about barrel/throat wear I guess.

 

[Kamicosmos]

Nope. All my loads have been under published max loads, verified by Speer, Lyman, and the powder's manufacture's data.

Even my big boom and flash H110 loads are under max, although within the 3% reduction the powder calls for.

I don't get the over max loads. Why is it worth the risk? Must be similar to trying to beat a train across the tracks or something...

 

[Surely]

flatter

I guess the only thing that interests me about it is that you get a flatter trajectory so shooting at distance is a little easier. I wouldnt sacrifice accuracy for it though. Also curious just to know what the actual limit, it seems that all manuals would provide a small buffer in their max loads before there is actually any negative effects as long as your using a modern/well built weapon and undamaged components. Normally would you notice damaged brass quite a bit before increased loads actually become dangerous to the shooter or the gun? Most people seem to get the best accuracy below published MAX loads but some report that their guns are actually more accurate if you push it a little, but how much can you push it before you get into the dangerous area would be good to know. Its obvious that you cant give an exact gram extimate because a 338 ultra mag could probably handle 2 extra grains alot better than a 223 but what kind of a saftey margin is built in, percentage wise, to most manuals do you think?

 

[HankB]

. . . some shells have a large margin of saftey and some have virtually none. Does anyone have examples of this?

Well, one example would be .45/70. If you're loading for an original trapdoor Springfield - or even a modern copy - you had better be careful to limit your pressures to what the action can stand, which isn't much. On the other hand, if you have a modern bolt action or single shot (like a Ruger #1) you can load the thing up to the point where it approaches .458 Win Mag power. Put a .45/70 which is max for a Ruger #1 into a trapdoor Springfield, and you're on VERY dangerous ground.

An example of a cartridge with little margin of safety might be .32 ACP. Designed for relatively low pressure, you're probably going to be WELL over the design limits of the pistol you shoot it in before you see any of the traditional signs of excess pressure, like cratered primers. I know of one fellow who blew up a Kel-Tec P32 with loads that were "only a little above" the Cor-Bon ammo for that cartridge. Go "only a little above" the max in, say, .357 Mag, and you're unlikely to blow up the gun - if you're working up slowly like you should be, signs of excess pressure "should" show up before catastrophic explosive disassembly of the revolver happens.

In reloading shotshells . . . pressures are already so low, that you can get yourself into trouble well before any warning signs show up. If a loading reference provides data for 12 gage target loads with 18 to 22 grains of powder, and all other parameters identical, I'll probably try 20 grains and stick to that.

 

[wingman]

For my rifle loads I find that being just under max gives me about my best accuracy.

No need for max loads, most are more accurate with less then max. Plus if you
need a bigger boom buy a bigger gun, maybe 50cal.

 

[wanderinwalker]

Surely,

To answer your question to the best of MY knowledge (and what I have heard from others) it is the AMOUNT of powder burned that wears the barrel, along with bullet passage. Heavier bullets are most stressful because they are slower (pressure stays higher longer). Makes sense to me.

So a .22-250 will have a shorter barrel life than a .223 by number of rounds, although the total powder burned in those rounds may be close to identical.

HTH.

 

[Dave R]

Depends on the gun.

My .380acp is most accurate at the max published load. I back off a little anyway, just on principle.

My 9mm is most accurate in the middle.

My .17 wildcat doesn't seem to care, but I get sticky extraction at what should be some fairly moderate loads. So I load it down to where extraction is normal, while I diagnose. I'm still not sure its not a die problem. Next time out I'm going to try some neck-sized brass and see if it'll go hotter.

My .308 rifle seems equally accurate at the low end, and near max, with accuracy falling off in the middle. I also load some .30-30 level loads for it, just for fun and economy.

 

[Gewehr98]

I have one of those .45-70 Ruger #1's.

And I would never let somebody take one of my thumper loads intended for the Ruger and run it in either a Marlin lever gun or Trapdoor Springfield. No way.

Likewise, the 158gr loads I make for my .357 Desert Eagle would probably loosen up a K-Frame S&W Model 19 in short order, or worse. But if I throttled back the Desert Eagle loads, the gun would have failures to cycle, not enough gas pressure to work the big beast.

The loads I run in my 8x57 Mauser very much exceed published data from the majority of the load books - save for one, Accurate Arms. They've gone the extra mile by adding a page for the European loading of the 8mm Mauser. Liability lawyers notwithstanding.

 

[P95Carry]

With rifle .. I tend to be a tad shy of max .. as long as i get the performance ..... which means consistency really. I don't see much point in striving for max vel in a rifle just for the hell of it!

Handguns .... that's different. I do load plenty of plinking stuff ...... .38, 9mm, .45 etc ... but having found that factory mag loads these days are tending whimpy .. I do load up quite a bit .. but within safe limits. My .357 mag load is shy of book max but shoots well .... even better in lever action. .44 mag ... similar .. my loads are safe re book max figures but have more horse power than factory.

The only one I do like to max out on is .454 Casull ... and am early in reloading for that ... the aim is to duplicate the great round Hornady does with the 300 grn XTP .... this yields about 1800 ft lbs!

 

[ThreadKiller]

As we used to say in the scuba diving biz, "There are old divers and there are bold divers, but there are no old, bold divers." Pretty much the same thing applies here.

The damage hot loads do to a firearm are cumulative. You may have developed a "hot" load that ol' Betsy tolerates (doesn't grenade instantly) but it's still hot and is still doing damage to the firearm. Then one day for no apparent reason, she lets go.

If you want more power, buy a bigger gun chambered for a bigger cartridge.

It's just plain stupid to knowingly overload your reloads. The extra 10% you may gain is meaningless on the other end anyway.

 

[uglymofo]

Ain't "HOT" the only way to load for DE 50AE fun?

Actually, while the loads seem quite warm to me, the primers and brass aren't badly deformed, and I'm still well under all three reloading books' maximums.

For rifle accuracy, I agree with most here--I have to be on the warmer side of average to get the best accuracy, especially at long range.

 

[Black Snowman]

Actually no ulgymofo, I can have a lot of fun with the "barely cycle the slide" loads as well. Sure its only 10 inches of flame instead of 30 out the barrel but follow-up shots are MUCH quicker so I can pound 7 holes into a target lickety split. That's a crowd pleaser too

 

[tex_n_cal]

One valid reason why reloading manuals have gotten more conservative over time is that new brass in many cases is now made thicker than it was in the 50's or 60's, and now has less capacity.

Secondly, modern ballisticians take real data and make statistical predictions as to what variation can be expected over a large lot of ammunition. They back off a load if ANY of the lot might exceed SAAMI pressure.

Lastly, some of the loads published in olden days were just plain unwise. They may not have blown up P.O. Ackley's rifle, but won't necessarily be safe in yours, either!

I will go past a published max, if my chrono tells me nothing wierd is going on, if I have good strong brass, and if the gun is strong for the caliber.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I tend to load hot in my 10mm's and my 357 mag rounds fairly hot. The rest like 45 acp or 9mm I just try to duplicate factory velocites.

 

[Ala Dan]

Use too; but I don't any more. Most of my shooting
now days is with mild .38 Special L-SWC's; or .44 Special
L-SWC's if I want a big hole from a revolver. Otherwise,
I shoot my mild .45 ACP "hard cast" handloads out of my
SIG P220A.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[bogie]

With the 6PPC in a match action/barrel/chamber, one of the nice tuning nodes is right at 3425 fps...

Look at your reloading manual now... Lemme put it this way - I use a foot-long drop tube on my Harrell to get all that V133 in the case...

 

[Dave R]

LOL. Bogie, if you're using a 1' drop tube, I'd say you're loading them pretty hot.