Do you need to bell case mouths on handguns

[crestoncowboy]

I have reloaded rifles for some time but have only loaded 44 magnum and 460 smith for a couple hundred rounds. I was wondering why you have to use the middle die that bells out the case mouth. The bullets fit without this step and I have enough trouble getting a crimp to keep the 460 bullets from creeping during recoil without the extra working of the brass?????

 

[DickM]

If you're able to seat the bullets without either shaving them or crumpling your brass, you're good to go. I assume you're loading jacketed - if you try to load lead bullets without at least some belling things probably won't go as well.

 

[crestoncowboy]

Yeah, I load jacketed hornady bullets 240 and 300 gr xtp mags for the 460 and 240 gr xtp for 44. thanks for the info. I had been not belling and just wanted to know why it was there. I guess lead being softer I would damage the bullets without belling.
The only time I have had any trouble with buckling cases was with hornady brass, no such problems with starline

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I bell .38/.357 or .45 AutoRim for lead bullets only, but always for lead bullets.
Jackets are not only harder than lead, but jacketed bullets tend to have slightly beveled edges, making belling unnecessary unless the case mouths have been dented. Then I bell the case mouth before necksizing.

 

[Grumulkin]

I'm curious; are you reloading new brass? With new brass I don't find it necessary to bell the brass but do with resized brass. The reason is that with full house 460 S&W Magnum loads the brass will expand enough that chambering will be difficult if not full length resized. Also, when reloading for a revolver, in order to keep the bullets from moving under recoil, I had to get a custom Lee Factory Crimp die to get an adequate crimp without crushing the case.

 

[crestoncowboy]

I havent needed to bell any brass new or fired. I use all rcbs carbide dies. For the 240 gr bullets I use 48 grains of win 296 and as long as I put a good strong crimp I dont get any bullet jumping even after firing the other 4 rounds in the gun. The only cases I crushed were the hornady cases I bought when I bought the gun loaded with the 200 gr bullets. I crushed probably 10 percent of those so I just threw them all away.

 

[Funshooter45]

Odd.

After I full length resize my revolver cases, I absolutely have to expand them to get a bullet started whether they are lead or jacketed. It's that way on .357, .44 mag, .45 Colt, .454 Casull, and .480 Ruger. It doesn't take much of a flare, but it takes a little bit. They usually fit extremely tight even before I apply a crimp. I wonder what the difference is.

 

[crestoncowboy]

I use hornady bullets like I said with rcbs carbide dies. Maybe different dies or bullets????

Ive never loaded lead bullets as I have heard they are dirtier, and Im too lazy to change out the compensator on the smith.

 

[Funshooter45]

Yeah, I have used the Hornady 240 gr XTP in the .44 mag and the Hornady XTP MAG 300 gr in the .454 Casull. Usually I shoot hard cast bullets, but I shoot some jacketed as well. Most of my revolver dies are Lee Carbide, but I have a couple sets of RCBS as well.

 

[kelbro]

For the 240 gr bullets I use 48 grains of win 296

That's a LOT of powder.

 

[OpelBlitz]

I hope you mean 4.8 grains!

I bell ever so slightly for .45ACP and .357Mag... Just enough for the bullet to contact the inner wall of the case mouth before it gets seated. I use all jacketed bullets though.

 

[cfullgraf]

I hope you mean 4.8 grains!

4.8 is way too little W296 in 44 Mag.

For jacketed or plated bullets, I expand the mouth of the case with enough bell for the bullet to just set inside the inner edge of the case.

When I loaded lead bullets, the bell would be more and I would frequently hit the mouth with the chamfer tool to break the edge of the case and prevent lead shaving.

 

[OpelBlitz]

I didn't read the .44 Mag part.

 

[cfullgraf]

OpelBlitz, it was easy to miss. It was covered over a couple of posts. Hopefully the original info was just a typo.

I just wanted to make sure folks did not use an unsafe load of W296.

W296 and H110 are great powders, I use them alot, but they not real friendly when used outside their narrow operating limits.

 

[OpelBlitz]

OpelBlitz, it was easy to miss. It was covered over a couple of posts. Hopefully the original info was just a typo.

I just wanted to make sure folks did not use an unsafe load of W296.

W296 and H110 are great powders, I use them alot, but they not real friendly when used outside their narrow operating limits.

Yeah, I use them exclusively in .357 Magnum and .30 Carbine. Love the powders!

 

[jja327]

New to highroad, been reading a little. Not realy a hunter or shooter. Been coonhunter for 25 years or so had quite a lot of guns and stuff. Bought a riffle new bout 15 years or so shot 1 shell through it.Has a nice scope on it. Looking to get rid of it wondering what to ask. Still have box papers recipt. Riffle and scop Its a 340 weatherby mark 5 deluke. Hoping to get around a grand or so think scope was about 800 then so it would be good deal i think, i no some guns and scopes go down in value so i dont have price written in stone

Welcome to the forum. You may not have realized your post ended up in the Handloading and Reloading section and is not related to the topic being discussed. If you try creating a new topic in the appropriate forum you may get a better response to your question on what your rifle is worth. I usually scan gunbroker to see what similar items have sold for.

 

[Geogre]

I am guessing on the 48 gr of w296 was for the 460 since it says both are loaded with 240's, just looked in manual and max is 48.8 for the 240 gr xtp-mag in my hornady 7th ed manual with win 296

 

[crestoncowboy]

Yes that load was for the 460 smith not 44. about half that for the 44. Did you ever think any round would handle twice the powder of the 44 in the 70s.


edit: ps 48 grains wouldnt begin to fit in a 44 mag casing. Its close in the 460

wow I was just on another thread about reloading for a 40 s&w. I didnt realize they only took around 5 grains. I only reload for 44 and 460.I dont reload for automatics since the ammo isnt all that expensive and Im guessing they can be picky about ammo.

 

[cfullgraf]

Yes that load was for the 460 smith not 44. about half that for the 44. Did you ever think any round would handle twice the powder of the 44 in the 70s.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[LiveLife]

Do you need to bell case mouths on handguns

Yes, but it varies depending on the bullet type.

Winchester 9mm 115 gr FMJ RN bullets I have on hand has very sharp flat base that catches the case neck so I bell the case neck to prevent crushing the case during bullet seating.

Montana Gold FMJ RN/RNFP and JHP bullets have rounder bullet base so they require very little belling.

Plated bullets like Rainier, Berry's and PowerBond have rounded bullet base so they require very little belling. I have tried to seat plated bullet with almost no belling, but some plated bullets are larger in diameter than jacketed bullets and they would ever so slightly bulge the case and sometimes would not chamber in tight Lone Wolf chambers.

Most lead bullets have bevel base but still require more belling so as to not scrape the side of the bullet by the case neck. I also make sure I set the bullet consistently flat so they don't tilt as the bullet seating insert makes contact with the bullet. This is less of a problem with jacketed and plated bullets as there is no concern of scraping lead from the side of the bullet.

Moly coated lead bullets require less belling than lead bullets as the hard, slippery coating help glide the bullet down the case neck. I still make sure I set the bullet consistently flat as tilted Moly coated bullet sides will be shaved by the case neck.

 

[psyshack]

I put a slight expansion on everything I reload. I don't care if it's lead, plated or jacketed.

 

[GLOOB]

So many people seem intent to find the bare minimum flare. I tried that with plated bullets, and it seemed like I found the sweet spot. But when I pulled some bullets, I found some had hidden deformities on the base.

If I'm doing plated pistol bullets, I put on a really good size flare. If the neck splits, good. That's better than the web blowing out. I'll get more brass. The thing with striving for minimal flare with plated/lead bullets is you'll never be sure you have enough, unless you use highly uniform brass and/or go back and pull them! Of course, with plated bullets, getting a tight seat isn't usually a problem. They're a bit larger than jacketed, to begin with.

 

[Walkalong]

I use the Lyman style two step expanders (Lyman or Redding) for most everything, but I do not push them deep enough in the case to get the flare at the case mouth. I adjust them so the second step goes in enough to get the bullet started straight. It's barely above bullet diameter.

With some lead bullets I use the regular expanders to get more flare at the mouth. IMO Gloob is right, with regular expanders you need more flare with plated bullets than you need with jacketed.

 

[crestoncowboy]

I guess I shold have said magnum handgun cases in the title, The reason I dont like belling is in the 460 magnum it takes a very good crimp to keep the bullets from creeping out and I dont think belling helps that very much. I have pulled bullets to check (RCBS kinetic bullet pullers suck) and with the bullets I mentioned there is no damage.

 

[snuffy]

crestoncowboy
I guess I shold have said magnum handgun cases in the title, The reason I dont like belling is in the 460 magnum it takes a very good crimp to keep the bullets from creeping out and I dont think belling helps that very much.

Well, your "guess" is wrong. The crimp/seater die erases any belling, it does not affect the crimp in any way.

Not using the expander die could end up causing trouble. The inside diameter of the brass is not consistent unless it has been expanded. If you're worried about bullet-pull affecting bullet jump caused by recoil, then having consistent inside diameter is crucial. It's easy to expand WITHOUT belling.

You've gotten away without belling the brass you're now using. That Hornady brass was probably a bit thicker, so the inside diameter was smaller. Trying to cram a bullet into the un-expanded brass is why it was crushed.

I'll bet your sizer dies are a bit over size, meaning they don't size the brass small enough. I can't imagine a bullet being forced into properly sized brass without belling it first. I don't care if it's jacketed or lead.

I expand and bell almost all of my handgun loads. The exception is the tiny neck on 357 sig ammo. It'll take jacketed bullets without belling OR expanding, I get increased bullet-pull by doing it that way.