Do you shoot center of mass, "zone", or "drill"

[nathan]

SHoot the chest , upper level of the nipples. Head is a big plus where the CNS is located but of course is a small target. Practice and practice until good at it.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Center of the chest or whatever I can get a bullet into.

Actually the targets I use are a full size head and a 1/4 size silhouette.
Both targets are about COM size but both have a 4x6 inch "kill zone".
My scoring is simple. All hits in the "kill zone" and I live. Any hits outside of the "kill zone" and I'm dead.
There is no second place winner.


For instance, in this low light "shootout", I survived out to 25 yards but the BG got me at 40 yards.

 

[pesty3782]

shot placement

Up close head 3-5 yards...moving back center mass then head 5-15 yards after that all center mass...50 yard shooting is a blast with a handgun...

 

[M2 Carbine]

Up close head 3-5 yards...

I made this rocking head target that we shoot at from 7-10 yards.
This day my friend's daughter beat both her dad and me shooting this target.

 

[allaroundhunter]

I mainly practice double and triple taps to COM. I also practice failure to stop drills regularly.

The threat does not have to be wearing body armor for a COM shot to fail to stop it, the body is funny thing, what stops one person may not stop another. The presence of drugs can also alter what will stop a threat. However, a round taking out the brain stem will stop anyone.

 

[Wapato]

I find it interesting folks often refer to "center of mas" when they don't mean center of mass. As noted in the OP, COM would be a gut shot. I can't think of any firearms instructors or schools that I have attended or read their books that advocate gut shots for stopping a threat, though nearly all refer to making COM shots. The terminology is being misused by folks who don't actually understand what they are saying, in part because most have not studied anatomy or physics to any great extent or because they are just repeating common defensive shooting terminology without actual consideration for what it means, sort of like when reporters call almost any long gun an assault rifle.

Here is an excellent explanation for human center of mass...
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2006/centerofmass.shtml

Actual COM shots are not supposed to necessarily take out vital organs. They are to give the shooter the best location for aiming that will provide for the greatest amount of error while still hitting the target.

Some folks refer to COM when they are actually meaning the center of the body itself (from the bottom of the pelvis to the top of the shoulders) and not taking into account the arms, legs, and head. This raises the shot to the level of the lower sternum. This is the point on the body that yields the greatest amount of room for error while still hitting the body.

Some folks refer to COM and they actually mean center of the chest which raises the shot up higher to about nipple/armpit level. This location gives the greatest amount of room for error while still hitting the chest and it also gives the greatest amount of error for being able to hit vital cardiopulmonary structures, but it isn't the actual center of mass of a human.

Area descriptors like "thoracic triangle" or "center of chest" tend to be more accurate for intended representation and inclusion of the primary vital organs to be targeted.

Great post. I think that explains a lot of where people are coming from.

Looking through this thread again, it seems pretty much everybody is doing roughly the same thing...they just call it by different names.

Specifically everybody primarily trains to shoot the heart out of silhouettes and pays some mind to at least being able to shoot the head or other spots if they feel the need. The pelvis option instead of head seems like it might be a good idea as it's probably much easier to pull off and might be just as effective against an opponent with a knife (not so much with a gun).

Nobody trains for cover, angles, limbs in the way, and the like. So in those situations it sounds like they might drift away from heart shots to actual COM shooting in an ad hoc manner. In any case being able to put bullets where you want them is going to be a good thing.

Though I'm wondering about how to train for headshots. The issue is that I imagine hitting the head is likely to be closer to skeet than silhouette. The body moves too, but not as much, and being a few inches to the right might still be "good enough" with a pulmonary artery hit. Whereas nicking an ear just isn't going to cut it.

 

[Loosedhorse]

The heart for most persons is lower than illustrated.

Most anatomic drawing refer to cadavers dissected while in a suppine position. In contrast, most chest x-rays are done with the subect standing, and are a better guide.

Drug stores often sell stethoscopes fo about $10. If you want, buy one and listen to find the area where the heartbeat is the loudest.

 

[txgunsuscg]

The LE targets that have pictures vice just a silhouette will give you a chance to see different angles and how you may have to adjust your point of aim accordingly. They run kind of expensive, so I would recommend finding a range that you can purchase them at, vice buying them yourself.

http://www.letargets.com/estylez_ps.aspx?searchmode=category&searchcatcontext=~010000~010100

 

[Wapato]

@txgunsuscg Very interesting! Thanks for the link. If I'm reading things right, those targets are still very cheap compared to the ammo going into them.

The heart for most persons is lower than illustrated.

In the pic you posted it's hard to tell where the heart is in relation to a body, both for being zoomed in and for being hard to tell if we aren't looking at an angle.

But you're saying that the traditional targets show the heart higher than it actually is presuming the target is standing (so you should aim a little closer to COM).

Whereas when someone lays down their heart slides upwards, and that's what a surgeon needs to be concerned with.

 

[Loosedhorse]

But you're saying that the traditional targets show the heart higher than it actually is presuming the target is standing.

Yes. A hit at the traditional "center chest" is a top-of-the-heart (or slightly above) aiming point: still a good target, but without as much horizontal margin for error.

And if the attacker is leaning forward (likely), then the aiming point on the surface moves up again.

 

[gym]

It all depends on how fast you need to fire. If possible I shoot left quadrant upper. If it's a distance shot or more than one person, "and I was alone" I would double tap center mass, and go on to the second bad guy and so on, maybe taking a split second knowing I have 2 45's on their way to the first one. It really doesn't take any longer if you practice your double tap and have a proper weapon with a quick reset. Usually the first subject Unless they are pro's with body armor" will set the stage for what happens next. But all situations are different, and you may have to fire at several perps at center mass, usually not the case though. If you get a head shot than take it, practice and it will just come natural. Of course there is no substitute for the real thing, especially if you are wounded and must keep your stuff together, we are geared to flight. It's hard to stay and fight when people are shooting at you.

 

[dcarch]

Depends on what part of the body correlates best to paper plates.
In all seriousness, I shoot for the X-ring on the standard b-27 targets. Perhaps not the most effective means of training, but right now, I'm simply working on contracting my group sizes to that ring. From there, I'll work more on "realistic" shooting.

 

[Owen Sparks]

Human bodies are oblong. The center of mass is actually just a few inches above the belt buckle. This was actually taught as the prefered target in the 1950's by such notables as Jeff Cooper. It has since been revised. Any hunter can tell you that a gut shot is not a reliable stopper. You should aim for the center mass of the chest. This will result in a heart or lung shot with plenty of margin for error.

 

[788Ham]

TheLoneHaranguer,

I'd not worry too much about the sternum and rib bones stopping most bullets, the vitals are only about 2 inches below those ribs and sternum. If you make it past the sternum {Cartilage }, you're home free.

 

[Ben86]

I aim for anatomy, not some generalized area. Mainly the heart or brain. Similar to what I do when hunting.

 

[Hangingrock]

 

[Loosedhorse]

Now, THAT target I like.

 

[Failure2Stop]

Aim for the center of what you can hit that will get the response that you need or can target.

If all I have is a left shoulder, I'll put a bullet into it.
If I have the ability to target the high center torso, I'll put as many into it as I have time available.
If I can target the CNS, I'll try to get to it.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I shoot for the center of paper plates these days.

 

[Ankeny]

Minute of paper plate when the SHTF is pretty good shooting.

 

[Dogguy]

I just expect the guy to stand still with his arms at his side in perfect light at 21 feet exactly until I hit something important.

 

[Ben86]

I knew those targets were good for something. You get to practice exactly what's going to happen in the field (as long as you wait long enough).

Yeah, maybe he'll get bored or complacent waiting for you to shoot and display that perfect opportunity for a shot, like a trophy buck at the top of a hill.