Do You Trust YOUR Electronic or Battery Powered Digital Powder Scale~?
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Jesse Heywood
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Agreed. My last scale buy was the RCBS 750 Rangemaster. Originally I had problems with not holding zero. Once I learned to leave in on all the time I have been pleased with the results.
MCgunner
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You learn in quant class (quantitative chemical analysis) that the scales (okay, really sensitive ones) will mis-weigh an object if you have finger prints on it. If your fingers are unclean, I'd think even a powder balance would benefit from wearing rubber gloves or handling with tongs. With a high end, accurate, enclosed single pan balance, you can see the weight drop on a small flask or glass object after you set it on there with your fingers as the fluids from your finger prints evaporate. So, SOP for gravimetric analytical techniques is to use tongs to handle such when weighing, wear gloves, don't get anything on the object to be weighed or it will have a negative affect on the accuracy of your test.
I really don't see much of an affect with a balance that only weighs to 0.1 grain, though. Just something to think about when talking about weight drift. What I like about the electronic balance is that I mostly load with volume powder measures. If I want to weigh every 5th round, I just tare the case, dump the powder, weigh it in the case, keep loading. Much quicker and simpler than working with a beam balance. I load ALL my handgun ammo with powder measures and most of my rifle ammo. I'm a hunter, far as rifles go, not a bench rest shooter. I don't sort cases, bullets, that sort of thing. I still get 1 MOA or sub MOA from my handloads. If I wanted those quarter MOA one hole 100 yard groups, I'd worry about weighing every charge and that sort of thing.
I really don't see much of an affect with a balance that only weighs to 0.1 grain, though. Just something to think about when talking about weight drift. What I like about the electronic balance is that I mostly load with volume powder measures. If I want to weigh every 5th round, I just tare the case, dump the powder, weigh it in the case, keep loading. Much quicker and simpler than working with a beam balance. I load ALL my handgun ammo with powder measures and most of my rifle ammo. I'm a hunter, far as rifles go, not a bench rest shooter. I don't sort cases, bullets, that sort of thing. I still get 1 MOA or sub MOA from my handloads. If I wanted those quarter MOA one hole 100 yard groups, I'd worry about weighing every charge and that sort of thing.
NotSoFast
Member
I have the RCBS Rangemaster 750. In almost two years of operation it has not failed me. Occasionally it drifts off Zero and I run a Calibration regularly, but there have been no hiccups. My test is to calibrate and zero my scale, drop a charge then measure it on the digital scale and compare that to the balance beam scale measurement. So far that has always come out within 1 grain. The only time it doesn't is if I haven't recently zeroed the digital scale.
Hondo 60
Member
My Pact scale works just fine according to the check weights, so yes, I do trust it.
Bought a Pact Precision shortly after they came on the market and when they were the only digital scale on the market for reloading. Still running and accurate after many years. I do use a set of check weights before a loading session. Has never shown an error. I do keep the RCBS balance beam in a drawer in case the need for reloading arises when the electricity is off.
Yes, because I have check weights that I weighed (validated) on a $10,000 lab grade scale!! I've been using an RCBS ChargeMaster 1500 for over two years now and will never go back to a balance beam scale. One tip for anyone with the CM if your scale "drifts" from the start of the loading session to the end. I found a large curved washer in one of my toolboxes that fits the pan and plastic "stage". I calibrate the scale, zero, then add the washer and zero again. The washer weighs around 450 grains so it shifts the scale closer to the center of the range which is 0 to 1500 grains. I notice that the scale doesn't drift over a long loading session now.
I use a $12 shipped digital scale http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15002.
If .005-.015gr variation is not a concern to you, then this cheapo scale will serve you wonder. The scale seems to be affected by weather, temp, etc. that's why there is a slight variation, but small. What I do is weigh the empty case, then weigh the case W/ charge, then subtract empty case from the case w/ charge. Weigh each step TWICE to make sure.
Hope this helps.
ATK
If .005-.015gr variation is not a concern to you, then this cheapo scale will serve you wonder. The scale seems to be affected by weather, temp, etc. that's why there is a slight variation, but small. What I do is weigh the empty case, then weigh the case W/ charge, then subtract empty case from the case w/ charge. Weigh each step TWICE to make sure.
Hope this helps.
ATK
amlevin
Member
Trust but verify.
I have a Chargemaster that I turn on when I get up in the morning on "Reloading Day". I calibrate it before a loading session and always check my load using "Test Weights". I place test weights that are as close as possible to my desired load and see if they show the exact weight. For example, if I am loading 41.7 grains I check with 41.5 grains of test weight and then again with 42. A scale may be OK at -0- but is it still accurate where it matters?
I am more than pleased with the Chargemaster and have shot my best groups since I started using it. My old balance scale now has a place in my reloading cabinet, waiting for a day when the power goes out or should I want to take my setup to the range.
I have a Chargemaster that I turn on when I get up in the morning on "Reloading Day". I calibrate it before a loading session and always check my load using "Test Weights". I place test weights that are as close as possible to my desired load and see if they show the exact weight. For example, if I am loading 41.7 grains I check with 41.5 grains of test weight and then again with 42. A scale may be OK at -0- but is it still accurate where it matters?
I am more than pleased with the Chargemaster and have shot my best groups since I started using it. My old balance scale now has a place in my reloading cabinet, waiting for a day when the power goes out or should I want to take my setup to the range.
I've had my RCBS 1500 for 3 or 4 years now and it has never done anything not expected. I leave it plugged in but off. When I start it I always calibrate it with the 2 weights provided and when I put the pan on it always weighs exactly 155.0 grs. After rezeroing and dispensing the load, when I pick up the pan it always registers exactly -155.0 grs.
It's like it is calibrating each and every time.
The reason I got it in the first place was because I was having occasional problems with the balance beam. I would say that I trust my CM much more than the balance beams which are stored away, permanently.
It's like it is calibrating each and every time.
The reason I got it in the first place was because I was having occasional problems with the balance beam. I would say that I trust my CM much more than the balance beams which are stored away, permanently.
howlnmad
Member
Yep. I have a PACT BBK and a Chargemaster. Both are on the money by my check weights. I have a RCBS 5-0-5 that won't zero out, so yes, I trust my digitals over my balance beam. JMHO
ranger335v
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"Do You Trust YOUR Electronic or Battery Powered Digital Powder Scale~?"
Well, the battery powered ones are electonic too. ?? And I don't have one at all 'cause I don't trust 'em very much. My "opionon" is, if you get a "good" digital, it's good. At least for as long as it's good, but that will NEVER be as long as a proper beam scale will be good.
There is no difference in the accuracy of a good powder scale so that's a draw. Sensitivity tends to go towards the beams. Anyone who finds his digital to be "faster" than a beam isn't using his beam correctly, there is no effective difference in speed; a fast number on the face isn't much value if you have to watch it stabalize the second or two it takes a beam to settle.
Labs, pharmacies, etc, even grocery stores do use digitals but they all cost several hundreds or even thousands of dollars and they still must have routine maintainance and calibration checks by professional scale technicians. Our scales don't cost nearly that much, aren't made nearly that well and never get such care so I don't trust 'em. Electronix techs have good job security fixing such stuff; I know, I was one for a long time.
But, the fun thing is, we all have a right to spend our own money and make our own mistakes!
Well, the battery powered ones are electonic too. ?? And I don't have one at all 'cause I don't trust 'em very much. My "opionon" is, if you get a "good" digital, it's good. At least for as long as it's good, but that will NEVER be as long as a proper beam scale will be good.
There is no difference in the accuracy of a good powder scale so that's a draw. Sensitivity tends to go towards the beams. Anyone who finds his digital to be "faster" than a beam isn't using his beam correctly, there is no effective difference in speed; a fast number on the face isn't much value if you have to watch it stabalize the second or two it takes a beam to settle.
Labs, pharmacies, etc, even grocery stores do use digitals but they all cost several hundreds or even thousands of dollars and they still must have routine maintainance and calibration checks by professional scale technicians. Our scales don't cost nearly that much, aren't made nearly that well and never get such care so I don't trust 'em. Electronix techs have good job security fixing such stuff; I know, I was one for a long time.
But, the fun thing is, we all have a right to spend our own money and make our own mistakes!
lvl1trauma
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The only time I have had a problem with electronic scales is when the battery was weak then I got screwy weights. That was on an RCBS scale. Changed battery and problem was solved.
ranger335v
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"But a digital scale with an automatic powder dispenser such as the RCBS ChargeMaster 1500 Combo (which is what I have) is WAY, WAY faster than a beam scale "
But digital dumpsters wasn't the question. No scale dumps powder and a measure is a whole 'nother device. Enjoy your CM, it is slightly faster than a manual system even if it's used correctly, and much faster than a manual done poorly.
But digital dumpsters wasn't the question. No scale dumps powder and a measure is a whole 'nother device. Enjoy your CM, it is slightly faster than a manual system even if it's used correctly, and much faster than a manual done poorly.
Peter M. Eick
Member
Yes I trust mine RCBS. I also have check weights just to be sure.
I got talked into (on this forum) to the idea that beam scales were better then a digital so I bought a 1010, and started using both. I found that my digital was faster, gave the same answer as the 1010 and was just as reliable. Works well, just no better then the digital
Now my 1010 sits on the shelf as a reminder to me to think through other folks advice and not get talked into something being better just because other folks say it is. Remember different does not mean better, just different.
I got talked into (on this forum) to the idea that beam scales were better then a digital so I bought a 1010, and started using both. I found that my digital was faster, gave the same answer as the 1010 and was just as reliable. Works well, just no better then the digital
Now my 1010 sits on the shelf as a reminder to me to think through other folks advice and not get talked into something being better just because other folks say it is. Remember different does not mean better, just different.
Jesse Heywood
Member
1858 said:
Good tip and probably useful for any electronic scale. My early problems were with drifting, but most of that went away when I started leaving the scale powered on all the time. Will have to try adding a little ballast and see what happens.
Jesse, I leave my CM on 24/7 too and found that my pan weight would drift by three or four 1/10ths of a grain over the loading session. At the start of the session, the pan weight would be reported as 154.0gr. After zeroing the scale and then removing the pan, the scale would show -154.0gr. By the end of the loading session, the pan weight would be reported as -153.6gr (drift). I don't know if this affected the load at all since I have the scale set up to zero and then automatically dispense the next charge once it's stable. However, it annoyed me so I added "ballast" as you call it so that the pan was significantly lighter than the new stage and to move the weight range closer to the middle of the 1500gr range. After doing that, the weight of the pan remains constant over extended loading sessions and is reported as -154.0gr whenever I remove it from the stage.
fastattack
Member
I agree with Clone - a good one is probably trustworth as many here have said. My cheap one can be 2/10th of a grain off in either direction with no consistency. Now, let me ask, how good is a digital scale if you have to verify it every time? Mine might be better used to sort bullets or brass, but I don't trust it with powder.
Offfhand
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I don't claim to be an expert but sometimes I learn some good things by watching and asking questions. Last summer I drove over to Pa. where they were having the benchrest championships. Watching these guys load and shoot is always an education. I was surprised to see that Jim Carmichael the gun writer was one of the shooters. I'd always wanted to meet him and found him at his big motor home. He invited me in and it was awesome to see, with a built-in loading bench. His loading equipment was rather simple but mostly looked custom made. One thing that impressed me was that he was using a RCBS 1500 Chargemaster for his loading and he had it plugged into a battery pac. When I asked why he was using the battery thing with the CM he told me is was handy when no other power source was available but mostly because it is a steady and constant power source. He said that electric plugins can be uneven and cause weight variations and that outside influences such as florescent lights and even the plug cord can also cause erratic readings. His trick was to keep the battery pac plugged in so it is always fully charged and plug the CM to the pac. All good advice and I bought a battery pac as soon as I got home and keep my CM plugged to it 24/7. When I looked at scoreboard I saw he was in top place for the day, so he must have been under pressure but you wouldn't know it by talking to him. Later I learned he won the HV championship so his CM must have been working perfectly. I wish I had thought to get his autograph and will if I see him again.
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