Does a Browning .30 caliber machine gun fire. 308 rounds?

[Trunk Monkey]

I'm watching Saving Private Ryan. Upham is running around with what looks like bandoliers of 50 caliber ammunition and they're saying it's for a 30 caliber machine gun.

Those rounds look way too big to be 30 cals to me.

 

[bangswitch]

The .30 cal Model 1919 originally fired a 30-06 cartridge, same as the M1 rifle. Many have since been re-chambered to 7.62x51 (.308), but in WWII, they used the 30-06 cartridge. That's what Upham is lugging around his neck. If you could hold a belt of .50 cal next to it, you'd immediately see how damn big those cartridges are in comparison.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

View attachment 236168 View attachment 236169 The .30 cal Model 1919 originally fired a 30-06 cartridge, same as the M1 rifle. Many have since been re-chambered to 7.62x51 (.308), but in WWII, they used the 30-06 cartridge. That's what Upham is lugging around his neck. If you could hold a belt of .50 cal next to it, you'd immediately see how damn big those cartridges are in comparison.

Okay that makes sense I knew those weren't 308s around his neck

 

[Deanimator]

Given the right parts, the Browning M1917/M1919 can be converted to any cartridge with the same case head size and the same or shorter length case.

That means:

• .35 Whelen
• .358 Winchester
• 8x63mm Swedish
• 8mm-06
• 7.7x58mm Japanese
• 7.92x57mm Mauser (J & S)
• 7x57mm Mauser
• 7.65x54mm Mauser
• 8x51mm Mauser (J & S)
• 7.62x51mm NATO (.308 Winchester)
• .270 Winchester
• 6.5mm Creedmore
• .260 Remington
• .243 Winchester

 

[lysanderxiii]

Given the right parts, the Browning M1917/M1919 can be converted to any cartridge with the same case head size and the same or shorter length case.

That means:

• .35 Whelen
• .358 Winchester
• 8x63mm Swedish
• 8mm-06
• 7.7x58mm Japanese
• 7.92x57mm Mauser (J & S)
• 7x57mm Mauser
• 7.65x54mm Mauser
• 8x51mm Mauser (J & S)
• 7.62x51mm NATO (.308 Winchester)
• .270 Winchester
• 6.5mm Creedmore
• .260 Remington
• .243 Winchester

Links would be the major thing to keep them from working. The M1 pull-out link won't fit over many of those cartridges, and be too loose on others.

 

[1KPerDay]

Did you notice that none of the cartridges had primers?

 

[Tommygunn]

Did you notice that none of the cartridges had primers?

It was a movie, they were no doubt dummy rounds. Most nongun people will never notice these things.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Did you notice that none of the cartridges had primers?

I noticed that the primers were all dented

 

[H&R Glock]

Look closely and in some movies they are shooting tulip crimped 50 BMG blanks in the guns. Others have sound effects and a muzzle flash but the feed belt is not moving! Go figure! Hollywood magic!

 

[FL-NC]

7.62 x 51 converted Browning 1919 series machineguns were in common use by the Israelis, South Africa, and Rhodesia. As far as Hollywood goes- old style (bottle necked) blanks can be seen several times being used in the M60 MGs in Hamburger Hill. Which really annoyed me.

 

[.308 Norma]

Did you notice that none of the cartridges had primers?

Ha! I never noticed that. I'll have to watch for it the next time we watch the movie.

 

[Mn Fats]

Did you notice that none of the cartridges had primers?

I noticed that as well years back. I love the movie and also understand its just a movie and most people watching would never notice. But to put the time and effort in to recreate the Omaha beach scene and then leave out primers bugged me. Of course I've noticed tons of gun flaws in film. Hammers down on 1911's. Guy pumping his shotgun every scene even though it was never discharged. 30 rounds fired through a glock with no reload. And again I get its cinema but the empty primers was a big misstep.

 

[Jim Watson]

Links would be the major thing to keep them from working. The M1 pull-out link won't fit over many of those cartridges, and be too loose on others.

Well, we know for sure it will work with .30-06, .308, 8mm Mauser, and 8mm Swedish.
Most of the rest are the same in body as one of those, differing only in neck diameter for the different caliber.
I don't know about 7.7mm Jap, though, it might be just enough different.
And congratulations if you have machine gun quantities of 8x51.

 

[BigBore44]

I don't think, and I could be wrong, that even blanks are used in shooting scenes anymore. They may be carried. But I mean for function of the firearm. I think all that stopped after Brandon Lee died.

 

[22250Rem]

Welcome to Hollywood, folks.......... It's always neat and interesting for those into firearms to see a movie where all that stuff is correct. But the vast majority of those watching it will never notice. Therefore; due to the extra hassle and expense of getting everything correct, gun and ammunition -wise it's just not feasible that it's gonna happen just to keep such a small percentage of their audience happy.

 

[mavracer]

Look closely and in some movies they are shooting tulip crimped 50 BMG blanks in the guns. Others have sound effects and a muzzle flash but the feed belt is not moving! Go figure! Hollywood magic!

Yeah I was watching some B Zombie movie and the had a M2 on a shopping cart and the CGI muzzle flash was moving all around the end of the barrel.

 

[BigFatKen]

A classic sad case was Jon-Erik Hexum

(November 5, 1957 – October 18, 1984) was an American model and actor. He died as a result of an accidental self-inflicted blank cartridge gunshot round to the head on the set of the CBS television series Cover Up, in which he played the male lead.

He thought it was Okay to treat a blank as a non-bullet. Enough power to push bone through brain.

 

[22250Rem]

I remember that...... How sad and tragic. ... One of the reasons I recall it so well was that I couldn't believe that being actors who worked with things like blanks that they weren't better informed about how dangerous those things can be. I'd bet that nowadays (if they even use blanks anymore), that everyone gets a class on them and knows what they are dealing with well beforehand. Wouldn't surprise me if O.S.H.A. came down on CBS after that because it occurred in the workplace.

 

[Sunray]

Saving Private Ryan is the usual Hollywood fairy tale. Isn't history.
"...He thought it was..." Actors know little about anything as a rule. Less about firearms.
.30 Brownings used by the U.S. chambered .30-06 during W.W. II. The CF used 'em in 7.62NATO until the mid 90s. Spitfires and Hurricanes used Browning MG's chambered in .303 British until they changed to all cannon armament after the BOB. Other armies used 'em in their PBI calibre too. 7.5 French, 7.62 x 54R, 7.65 Argentine, 6.5 x 55, 8mm Mauser, 8×63mm, etc.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I don't think, and I could be wrong, that even blanks are used in shooting scenes anymore. They may be carried. But I mean for function of the firearm. I think all that stopped after Brandon Lee died.

A couple of years ago I got to talk to two of the producers of the Canadian Broadcast Corporation series Rookie Blue. (Believe it or not they changed a couple of things based on my suggestion) They told me that if the gun wasn't coming out of the holster during the scene they used what amounted to a blue gun. If the gun was to be fired they used a Propane powered mock up.

If a real gun was ever used the set armorer kept it under lock and key until it was needed. When needed the armorer, director, actor holding the gun and actor who the gun was going to be pointed at all verified that the gun was unloaded and as a final safety precaution the gun was "fired" into a clearing barrel. (Which is why you frequently saw 1911s and BHPs with the hammer down on this show.

Under no circumstance was live ammunition ever allowed on set.

 

[lysanderxiii]

Well, we know for sure it will work with .30-06, .308, 8mm Mauser, and 8mm Swedish.
Most of the rest are the same in body as one of those, differing only in neck diameter for the different caliber.
I don't know about 7.7mm Jap, though, it might be just enough different.
And congratulations if you have machine gun quantities of 8x51.

Actually, no they wouldn't. The neck of the cartridge needs to pass through the top of the M1 disintegrating link and the M1917 cloth belt. The neck of any 8mm is a good bit bigger than the neck of a .30 cartridge.

With M60 links, you have slightly different problem. The clip for the rim interferes with the extractor claw and they will not reliably be withdrawn from the belt. The simple solution of 7.62mm NATO in the Mk 21 Machine Gun (an M1919 modified to shoot 7.62 NATO) was to flip the belt upside-down. With other cartridges the diameter where the link grips the case is slightly different and may cause a loose or tight condition. Also, you would have to make a non-standard cartridge stop for the feed tray.

While many believe that the British Browning Mk I and II were just M1919s re-barreled in .303 with a new bolt, they aren't. There is a lot of differences and almost none of the parts interchange.

Other armies used 'em in their PBI calibre too. 7.5 French, 7.62 x 54R, 7.65 Argentine, 6.5 x 55, 8mm Mauser, 8×63mm, etc.

All of those, like the .303 variant, were purpose built to that cartridge, with purpose designed links. They were not "converted".

 

[Trunk Monkey]

FWIW in one scene Upham is standing with the belts of ammunition around his neck and one round falls out of the belt.

 

[DukeConnor]

I had a second louie raise a m16, pull the trigger, and shoot a silver dollar size hole in the top of our tracks tent extension with a blank. Im talking heavy canvas. My ears rang for an hour. I cable locked his rifle in the M577's gun rack and wouldn't let him have it for the rest of the ecercise. He didn't argue.

 

[CapnMac]

Which Cal..30 Browning MG you mean matters, too.
While the M-1919 series have been converted to other calibers, the M-1917 really wasn't (although, IIRC, Browning built samples in 7mm & .303 for potential foreign sales).

But, without the right chamber, no, it would be a mess.

 

[lonegunman]

A 1919 fired 7.62x51mm or .308 Winchester after it was invented in 1952. It would be unlikely that anyone in WWII would have used it.

That being said, it is a movie. It is far easier to find and make .308 blanks these days than actual 30-06 blanks.