Does Anyone Still Buy from the CMP?

[Swifty Morgan]

Years ago, someone told me I should get an M1 carbine from the CMP. He said it was a great source for cheap carbines. I checked, and as I recall, they were running around $650, minimum. I thought that was too much for a worn carbine, so I passed.

If you look at the current auctions, $650 seems like a bargain (except to me, I guess), and the M1 Garands they're selling sound like real beaters. Mismatched wood. Mixed parts. Worn chambers.

This week I got an email about 1911 sales. You would think there would be some good deals. Wrong. A 1911 with pitting and wear sells for $1050. I can get a brand-new 1911 from Smith & Wesson for about $800, and Gunbroker has nice Colts for less than $1050.

Is it me, or has the CMP completely jumped the shark? What am I missing here? Are these tired old guns such great collectibles they're worth the premium?

 

[Jeff H]

I don't know what their current stock is but 5 years ago or so a service grade Garand was around $650 or so which was about 1/2 of the price that you would find the same gun for on auction sites. Their Mil-surp M2 ball ammo (greek stuff) was reliable good shooting ammo at very reasonable prices as well.

They tell you exactly how the barrel gages so you know if you are buying a worn out one or not. It is worth it to pick it out yourself if you are near one of their stores. They offer new wood on quite a few service grade rifles and they are well made.

I'm very happy with the purchases I have made. Not what I would call a worn out rifle.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

What do you think of their 1911 prices?

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

What do you think of their 1911 prices?

I would say they are in line with what a GI 1911 brings in my area. Immaculate, blued, WW1 era guns are in the $2500 range, with beater, mismatched, A1s going for around $800.

 

[GRIZ22]

Years ago, someone told me I should get an M1 carbine from the CMP. He said it was a great source for cheap carbines. I checked, and as I recall, they were running around $650, minimum. I thought that was too much for a worn carbine, so I passed.

If you look at the current auctions, $650 seems like a bargain (except to me, I guess), and the M1 Garands they're selling sound like real beaters. Mismatched wood. Mixed parts. Worn chambers.

This week I got an email about 1911 sales. You would think there would be some good deals. Wrong. A 1911 with pitting and wear sells for $1050. I can get a brand-new 1911 from Smith & Wesson for about $800, and Gunbroker has nice Colts for less than $1050.

Is it me, or has the CMP completely jumped the shark? What am I missing here? Are these tired old guns such great collectibles they're worth the premium?

Many others and myself have bought many guns from CMP that were not "worn out". You need to realize that military weapons are rarely worn out. Most military weapons that get worn out are those used in basic training units that get shot a lot on a regular basis.

When military guns get rebuilt everything goes into separate piles. Parts that can be reused are. Those that can't are tossed. That's how things get mismatched. Many M1 carbines were made with parts from different suppliers. They came mismatched when they were new.

Most military guns are carried a lot more than shot. Doing so in the field will result in cosmetic challenges. I remember being taught how to use the toe of the stock to break my fall when diving into the prone. Probably did that a couple hundred times.

Pistols are generally shot much less than rifles in the military.

CMP checks every gun before it's sold. Does a bad one get by? Sure, sometimes. If that happens CMP has about the best customer service around.

You also don't understand something about collecting. Original finish is more important and more valuable than nicely refinished.

If you want a carry gun spend the money on a new gun. If you want a gun with history, you can take out and shoot, and in 10 years multiply in value (there are only so many GI 1911s out there) buy a 1911 from CMP.

 

[reddog81]

What do you think of their 1911 prices?

CMP is required to sell at market rates. Usually their prices are $100 to $200 under prices you'll find at gun shows or shops. The 1911's are reasonably priced and the demand will be much larger than the supply. You might be able to find cheaper ones on the open market but you'll be searching for a while.

 

[GBExpat]

Are these tired old guns such great collectibles they're worth the premium?

"Tired old guns", huh? <chuckle> Sounds to me like you are wasting your time even thinking about The CMP as a source for firearms.

I think that $1050 for a Service Grade USGI 1911A1 is a reasonable price ... just where many of us thought that that it would probably be priced.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

The CMP was recommended to me as a good place to get a cheap M1 Garand or carbine in great condition. It looks like that's not true, unless "cheap" means cheap for a collector's item. Was it ever true?

 

[CoalTrain49]

I don't think any of these are something a person would want as a range gun. The slides are not hardened and will be prone to cracking with hard use. Best buy a new gun if you plan on firing thousands of rounds with it. The CMP rifles are going to hold up a lot better to constant use. Because of that I won't be buying one. I'm not a collector although I do have a USGI carbine. I shoot it occasionally and don't feel bad about it.

I think they are over priced for what they are. If I was looking for a collector I would spend the $2500 and buy one in good condition with matching slide and frame. If you buy a 1911 from the CMP there is no way to know what you might be getting.

 

[Elkins45]

The CMP was recommended to me as a good place to get a cheap M1 Garand or carbine in great condition. It looks like that's not true, unless "cheap" means cheap for a collector's item. Was it ever true?

I bought a field grade for $630 that looks good and shoots exceptionally well. Is that cheap? Well, I sincerely doubt I could buy one at a gun show for within $100 of that. The only way I’m likely to get one any cheaper is if somebody’s widow doesn’t know what she’s selling.

1911 prices? The USGI 1911 market is stupid. I expected CMP to reflect that and it looks like I was right. I have no interest in one at their prices, even as a collection piece.

 

[ilbob]

Is it me, or has the CMP completely jumped the shark? What am I missing here? Are these tired old guns such great collectibles they're worth the premium?

I suspect there will be no shortage of buyers which suggests the buyers at least think they are worth the premium, if there is one. A real military issue 1911 is not all that easy to come by.

 

[AlexanderA]

Seeing the sky-high collector prices for original M1911A1's in my area, I think that the recently-announced CMP price structure will have a downward effect on the market. At least I hope so.

 

[GBExpat]

... It looks like that's not true, unless "cheap" means cheap for a collector's item. Was it ever true?

I have 10 of the original Greek Rack Grade M1s (prior to the creation of the Field Grade to accommodate these great-condition Rack Grades) in my gunsafes downstairs that I bought in 2004-2005 for $295/ea. Shipping was ~$15-16/ea. Except for easily correctable cosmetic issues, all are Service Grade equivalent rifles ... so, yeah, that was true once upon a time.

The cheapest that you could ever buy M1 Carbines from The CMP was $495 in Summer 2007.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

I think it would be neat to have a WWII M1 carbine made by a company that didn't ordinarily make guns (IBM, Rock-Ola) , but it's hard to get excited about a 1911 that could have spent its entire career in the US in the hands of someone like Gomer Pyle.

 

[Nuclear]

Almost all M1 Garands and M1 Carbines will have mixed manufacturer parts. Even coming direct from the factories, because sometimes the manufacturers didn't make all their own parts or were short parts, so they used whatever company's parts they could get to finish the guns. It was wartime production, after all (for the most part). Then almost all of them were repaired in the field and/or went through the arsenal rebuilds as described above. That's why guns with all the parts from the same manufacturer and matching wood are almost all done by modern day collectors, and not really worth the premium prices, unless there is documentation.

The rifles from the CMP are functional, have been checked out by their gunsmiths who really know what they are doing, and have been test fired. They are a few hundred dollars cheaper than you will find for sale on the open market. And as has been said, they will fix a gun that has a problem, or replace it if the problem makes it unsafe, unable to function or falls below the grade it was sold as. Plus the "profit" from the sales goes to promoting the shooting sports to young people.

 

[TheVision]

Related video: The CMP Philippine Returns

$5 million spent to remediate termite and asbestos damage, and return the 86,000 Philippine Garands to the United States.

 

[1KPerDay]

The CMP was recommended to me as a good place to get a cheap M1 Garand or carbine in great condition. It looks like that's not true, unless "cheap" means cheap for a collector's item. Was it ever true?

Yes, a few years ago, when service grades were $600ish and "special grades" were $900 (new barrels, new stocks, fresh parts, fresh park). The deal of a lifetime were the "service specials" which were as-new correct GI barreled actions put in new commercial stocks for $750. I missed out on those though. I also got a couple M1 Carbines for $650ish each which stung at the time but now seems like a good deal. Not sure I'd buy any of their rifles at their current prices, and I definitely won't be buying a 1911. If you want a "real, issued GI" 1911, though... you might.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Seeing the sky-high collector prices for original M1911A1's in my area, I think that the recently-announced CMP price structure will have a downward effect on the market. At least I hope so.

Those collectors have to sweating this out. What if, just speculating here, what if these CMP pistols turn out to be in better condition than many think they will be. That's going turn the collectors market upside down. How many of these are there, 80,000? If only half get into the market that's going to hurt some collectors.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I shouldn't be reading any of this. Now I'm on the fence. I got to thinking about this and put it into perspective. If I was at the LGS and there in a glass case was an authentic USGI 1911 in good condition for $1050 would I buy it. Probably.

I'm going to fill out the paperwork just for the heck of it. If they hit my number in the lottery I'll make the decision to buy it then. If I don't hit the lottery no big deal. What's it cost to fill out the paper work, $5?

Someone's going to want that pistol in 10 years when I can't see the sights anymore. I bet I can turn at least a 10% profit.

 

[reddog81]

You aren't going to find cheap anything anywhere unless you want to spend hours browsing online auctions, armlist, and show up first to local gun shows.

The CMP has reasonable prices and they're usually cheaper than just about anywhere else. They've only had M1 carbines a handful of times over the last 10 years. You could be waiting a long time if you think you're going to get a CMP M1 carbine. I'm sure there are 100's for sale online right now.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

So basically, I have to rip off a widow.

 

[medalguy]

Cheap rifles? Well I bought an M1 carbine back about 1965 for $17.50 I think it was, and a 1911 a few years prior for $17. Keep in mind the retail prices on those guns weren't a lot more than that at that time. Yes CMP does sell for close to current prices, but they have to do that, and let's all remember that prices have tended to rise over time. If you want a nice all matching rifle, I see guys all the time on the CMP forums buying and selling specific manufacturer parts. I'd bet 90+% of the "original" rifles came together in somebody's garage. Thanks but I'll take an arsenal rebuild any day.

 

[Jim Watson]

Considering the number of fraudulently misrepresented and outright fake 1911s I read about, I am sure a lot of non-plutocrat collectors will be glad to get a real USGI refurb with CMP papers.

 

[reddog81]

So basically, I have to rip off a widow.

If she's looking to sell, the average gun store will offer her $.50 on the dollar. Offer her $.60 on the dollar and you both come out ahead.

 

[DeepSouth]

It depends on what I want... if I want a nice 1911 to carry and defend my life and family with, then no, I’m not going to buy that one from the CMP. If I want a true piece of history that may have been dropped down with a solider into occupied France, then yeah, I’ll buy from CMP.

It’s all about what you want.

I recently bought an International Harvester M1 Garand from CMP, could I have bought a more accurate, better looking 30-06 for cheaper from Buds gun shop, probably. But I wanted a M1 Garand, so I drove to the CMP.