Does brass weaken with age?

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Copper age hardens and also tarnishes. I learned that when I was young, tough, hadn't realised my body would eventually wear out, and made my living by running up and down power line poles. There is a lot of difference between new copper which is bright, shiny, and soft and years old copper which been out in the weather and has tarnished to dull and become much harder. I also saw some of the effects from the contents of the atmosphere it was in. Most startling was on a couple of poles down wind of a gas plant where the predominating wind was blowing the fumes from a flare directly on them. The line was about 20 years and the #6 copper was almost corroded thru where it was in the open air. Where it was fastened along the pole it was not nearly as corroded but still very hard. Brass is a copper alloy so it will eventually harden. The conditions in which it is stored will have a big impact on the time it takes to do so.

We also replaced miles of very old #6 copper line with ACSR. We used a power reel to roll up the old copper line and it was stiff and hard, springy in fact. We recycled it by building a big fire from wood and throwing a roll of the old copper in it. When it cooled it was soft again and much of the corrosion had flaked off. We used it for ground wire just like the brand new stuff.

Like I said..

 

[thump_rrr]

About 12 years ago I bought a Savage 10BA.
At the same time I bought 200 .308 Lapua cases.
I ran 4600 rounds through that factory barrel in 10 years only using those 200 cases which I annealed every 1-2 firings depending on how quickly I needed to get reloaded.
I was pushing a 180gr SMK at 2625fps which is above book maximum loads.

I still have those 200 pieces of brass.
They were set aside when I replaced the barrel but if I put them next to my new Lapua brass I can’t tell the difference.

 

[BushMaster-15]

Brass harden with age ,that's funny Brass hardens by working it ,not allowing it to set over time . It WILL TARNISH though ,that's a fact !. Eventually ALL things will perish but that takes a millennium x 10/30 Th.

I'm using some 1942 .30 Cal Ammunition in a M1 ,I'm also reloading those cases After annealing them currently IMR 4064 ,4895 , Bl C2 and over #10 reloads with NO failures .
What's even more impressive are the K's of spent cases, that I received after they had set in 5 gallon buckets for over #40 years I KNOW of . I have currently over #16 reloads on those cases . 1942-43 44 .
Ditto with 7.62x51mm 1953,54 ,55,56 cases and yet to have any issues . After #3 firings they get re-annealed . What is perhaps the most remarkable attribute to those cases is , the fact the Rim's aren't being chewed up ,as everyone knows gas guns can play rough .

Don't confuse powder corrosion with brass hardening ,or as earlier posted mercuric salts primer contamination ,both will wreak havoc if allowed to stand on brass , As will moisture !.

 

[doubleh]

Brass harden with age ,that's funny

It may be to you but it happens because of it's copper content although very slowly. The way it is stored also has an influence over the speed that it does. Corrosion is an entirely different thing. I have said my piece and am done with this subject.

 

[NuJudge]

Brass can go bad with age. The only clear example of it I can cite is a batch of 6.5x55 M-S brass I bought from Midway about 1985. It was beautiful, and shot well in my Mannlicher-Schoenaur rifle, with no issues. I tried shooting some more of it about 2015 and got structural failures of the brass involving radial cracks forming in the extraction groove. I am surprised it did not blow the rifle up.

All the other bad brass I have encountered was quite possibly bad from the beginning.

 

[BushMaster-15]

It may be to you but it happens because of it's copper content although very slowly. The way it is stored also has an influence over the speed that it does. Corrosion is an entirely different thing. I have said my piece and am done with this subject.

Brass can go bad with age. The only clear example of it I can cite is a batch of 6.5x55 M-S brass I bought from Midway about 1985. It was beautiful, and shot well in my Mannlicher-Schoenaur rifle, with no issues. I tried shooting some more of it about 2015 and got structural failures of the brass involving radial cracks forming in the extraction groove. I am surprised it did not blow the rifle up.

All the other bad brass I have encountered was quite possibly bad from the beginning.

I won't argue and doubt any real discussion would result in a thread closure ,as previously experienced in a few threads .

Explain to ME please ,exactly HOW brass hardens with age ?. Also please explain to ME ,how I'm getting #12-20 reloads out of 1942-44 WWll M1 .30 Cal cases ; ,along with 1953-56 7.62x51mm cases , That I acquired from a Military range nearly 45 years ago . FYI : I can't think of a single case ,that I acquired which had not set outside in open Bins and I helped transfer into #5 gal buckets and only started using them within the last #4 years .

I've yet to lose a single case or have lose primer pockets and I'm running them top end of Military specs ,so their NO wimp loads but safe in ALL of MY older semi auto units , one of which is 75 year old M1 Garand .

Now I've had a few cracked necks on some OLD Turkish 8mm and they're berdan corrosive primed ,with Steel core ,so that's NO surprise to ME

Target : MY Old Tanker had a stripped pinion and at the time I was unable to elevate the sights . ALL #8 are right there together though .

 

[JFrank]

I think larger capacity cartridges naturally burn more powder and just harder on brass, how long they last just depends on how hard they get hit and how much brass gets moved during resizing.

 

[joneb]

The more I read the more I'm split on the issue. Post number 33 breaks it down pretty well. What does The Road think?

Everything weakens with age. It's called entropy, the rate of decay depends.

 

[Riomouse911]

I have a bit of a cartridge collection. One older round I have is a .33 Winchester with a cupro-nickel jacketed bullet. The neck on this unfired case has cracked for some reason, allowing the bullet to be twisted in the case between my finger and thumb.

It sure looks like the case became brittle, maybe the primer or powder inside caused it. Of course it is at least 70 or 80 years old, so this case being cracked doesn’t surprise me.

Stay safe.

 

[JFrank]

Does it have a huge neck ID ?
Compare the OD of a loaded round against a fired case.

 

[Scout21]

I think larger capacity cartridges naturally burn more powder and just harder on brass, how long they last just depends on how hard they get hit and how much brass gets moved during resizing.

That's a pretty well known fact, I doubt anyone would argue with you.

What I was specifically asking about was if brass ages just sitting there. According to what I read brass can harden simply when put in storage. I'm pretty well split because it seems that there are very well informed people stating contradictory things.

 

[AJC1]

That's a pretty well known fact, I doubt anyone would argue with you.

What I was specifically asking about was if brass ages just sitting there. According to what I read brass can harden simply when put in storage. I'm pretty well split because it seems that there are very well informed people stating contradictory things.

The fact is that every company has their own brass formula, and government armories of the world likely do as well. One cannot clearly make a statement that applies to all and be completely correct. Each person has experiences based on different formulas of brass in different applications.

 

[tmd16556]

Doing a little more research, ammonia can be a problem for brass and is the sort of thing brass could easily be exposed to in storage. I know in the 1920s and 30s reloading manuals also recommended cleaning brass in ammonia. That probably didn’t help.

A lot also has to do with alloys and manufacturing processes. This probably explains a lot. Some brass is poorly made and was going to fail in the next loading before it went into storage. Some was well made but stored poorly and was ruined by chemicals nearby.

 

[Mk-211]

https://www.astm.org/stp42563s.html

 

[243winxb]

Cartridge Brass-
Material is 70 copper/30 zinc with trace amounts of lead & iron , called C26000.
The difference between brands is in forming method & how many annealing.

There are slight variations in the 70/30, because of the trace amounts.

 

[tmd16556]

I suspect it’s the forming process that sets up stress cracking. You can cut corners on annealing and get away with it for a while, but in long term storage it’ll break down (Turkish ammo). If done right it can hold up much longer.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Brass can get hard spots in the raw material also. Then after being drawn it's really hard. Makes for a very short life.
Most of my brass is old to very old. My 30-30 brass is original brass from the 1950's when Dad was reloading them. I inherited this brass and are still using it.
I don't know what is right or what is wrong about brass age harding, I was always told it does not age harden and pretty much believe that. If that old 30-30 brass starts splitting I'll figure it's because it was never annealed.
When I got my 327 FM revolver I had 7 out of 50 new Federal rounds split on their first firing. After buying Starline brass that went to 1 out of 500 over 13 years.
I think some brass manufacturing processes are just better than others. Don't think that age has much to do with it, at least in the short period of time that we are talking about.

 

[DMW1116]

Brass doesn’t weaken or harden (opposite things) as it ages on its own. Well, cartridge brass anyway. However it is quite susceptible to stress corrosion cracking. This requires both stress, corrosion, and a pretty specific environment. For brass, one of the things that get to it is exposure to ammonia. It doesn’t take much, like being down wind of a horse stable or chicken house. The ammonia in the excrement plus residual stress in the brass from forming or neck tension can cause it.

 

[Mk-211]

For those of you that are really anal about brass. Clean it first, use a method that removes anything corrosive. Like washing in SS pins and dawn soap or Iosso liquid. Dry thoroughly after.

Then buy one of these.

https://www.foodsaver.com/food-vacuum-sealers/

 

[wbm]

Does brass weaken with age?

Yes.

 

[AJC1]

Brass doesn’t weaken or harden (opposite things) as it ages on its own. Well, cartridge brass anyway. However it is quite susceptible to stress corrosion cracking. This requires both stress, corrosion, and a pretty specific environment. For brass, one of the things that get to it is exposure to ammonia. It doesn’t take much, like being down wind of a horse stable or chicken house. The ammonia in the excrement plus residual stress in the brass from forming or neck tension can cause it.

I think the correct reply is awww horse ****..

 

[tightgroup tiger]

For those of you that are really anal about brass. Clean it first, use a method that removes anything corrosive. Like washing in SS pins and dawn soap or Iosso liquid. Dry thoroughly after.
Then buy one of these.
https://www.foodsaver.com/food-vacuum-sealers/

I got the bright idea of storing my 9mm loaded rounds in vacuum pack food bags. I packed two bags full and put them on the reloads shelf. Went in there the next day and the bag had air in it again.
Repacked them and tried it again, this time double sealing all four sides. Next day same thing.
That's when I realized that the vacuum was sucking the air out of the 9mm rounds. Not good. That air needs to be in there as a shock absorber to keep pressure under control. Not to mention it will change the burn characteristics of the powder some way. I supposed if you opened the bag and left them lay out for a few days they'd probably re-acclimate.
Anyways, I decided that wasn't a packaging option.

 

[Mk-211]

Brass only.

Loaded rounds in ammo cans with those dissicant packs.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

We used a lot of brass in satellite construction. It’s one of the short-list metals which doesn’t change composition or properties over time in vacuum even when exposed to cosmic particle waves. The brass used in aerospace is not far from the same composition as cartridge brass but it’s not the same alloy, either.

 

[tmd16556]

Thinking about it, rat whizz is probably the biggest problem making good brass go bad. Those rat b@st@rds love to eat paper and have no control over their excretions.