Thernlund
Member
Soybomb said:
This is a good point. If you're giving junk to your largest reseller, the vast majority of your products in circulation will be junk. As such, your reputation overall will quickly suffer.
-T.
Does Wally World get different Guns?
- Thread starter Master of Arms
- Start date
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This is a good point. If you're giving junk to your largest reseller, the vast majority of your products in circulation will be junk. As such, your reputation overall will quickly suffer.
-T.
jimmyraythomason
Member
Yeah but... do you give your best product to the retailer who pays you the LEAST for it? Just askin'
Thernlund
Member
jimmyraythomason said:Yeah but... do you give your best product to the retailer who pays you the LEAST for it? Just askin'
Yeah, actually. If they can prove to you they can move high volume.
I have a friend that owns an commercial AV company. Manufactures like LG and Yamaha give good discounts to resellers that prove they can move product in high volumes. Places like Circuit City and Best Buy can get much better deals then smaller VARs like my friends company.
In one case, the retail price at Best Buy was lower than his direct cost!
So yeah, high volume does equal lower per unit cost.
-T.
Master of Arms
Member
- Joined
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- 336
YEP!!
One thing that I liked is that they will order just about anything that you want. And the prices are very hard to beat.
I kind of doubt it. It is just packaged in a different box. I think the WalMart box is a little larger than the normal box and maybe holds more units for retail sale. The units inside the box are exactly the same with the same UPC code that goes to everyone else. The product all comes off the same assembly line, some is just diverted to a different packaging line.
WalMart does not have a big problem with having to price match any other stores.
bigfoot311
Member
wal mart doesnt even sell guns in my area (so cal)...
Neo-Luddite
Member
You know, I'm not THAT old (late 30's) but started buying guns before WM became the superpower it is today in so many rsepects; the stories that large chain stores somehow were shipped an inferior product were around twenty years ago, too.
FWIW--Walmart's effect on the gun world will shrink as they get move out of gun sales in many areas--and that's fine. Guns are just too highly regulated of a product to sell on a razor thin margin without, ultimately, driving quality down by forcing suppliers to use inferior manufacturing techniques.
I for one don't like to see plastic parts replace metal ones on long-produced models of firearms; the 'Walmart Effect' drives choices of shaving a penny here and there and the next thing you know 10/22's (for example) end up with plastic trigger housings and who knows whats next.
FWIW--Walmart's effect on the gun world will shrink as they get move out of gun sales in many areas--and that's fine. Guns are just too highly regulated of a product to sell on a razor thin margin without, ultimately, driving quality down by forcing suppliers to use inferior manufacturing techniques.
I for one don't like to see plastic parts replace metal ones on long-produced models of firearms; the 'Walmart Effect' drives choices of shaving a penny here and there and the next thing you know 10/22's (for example) end up with plastic trigger housings and who knows whats next.
RoadkingLarry
Member
Can't say for sure aout guns but it isn't uncommon for a lower end guns to be sold only at places like wallyworld, There were several Marlins that were wal-mart/chain store only guns (marlin model 30 is one) it is what it is. But, I do know for a fact that in the early '90s Zebco had 2 seperate assembly lines for fishing reels, one was for wal-mart and one was for everybody else (regular sporting goods places) and the material was not the same on both lines. The wal-mart line had cheaper parts. In either case Zebco would stnad behind them. Don't know if that is true today or not since they shipped it all to China.
countertop
Member
I have a 336 that came with a gold trigger . . . of course now its got a black one thanks to the good folks at Wild West Guns
Husker1911
Member
I was in the business thirty years and didn't ever encounter another factory repair invoice within a factory new box. Merely going on my own personal experience.
You won't see a repair ticket in a factory new box. You have to think about how WM works.
New merchandize does not come to the store. It goes to the warehouse which sends it to the store. Returns of this type go back up the chain. When they get repaired they go back to the warehouse, not back to the same store.
It would not surprise me one bit if neither the store nor the warehouse ever looked in the box to pull out the repair tickets.
If a gun store sends a defective gun back, usually it comes back to the store, and than to the buyer. WM just typically replaces it with a new one so you don't have to wait.
One thing I've noticed, Wally seems to have cut back on selection a lot over the last 4-5 years.
Prob has to do with volumne sellers, just stocking those quick movers.
At one point, they were pretty good about having some fresh released new models. Got a first year Tikka T3for about $450.
They used to carry some of the better Remington heavy varmits, at a fair price, but no more.
They may special order Brownings, but they are not a preferred Browning dealer, so you may wait quite some time for something. I waited 5 months (wasn't in any hurry) for a T Bolt .22. Finally cancelled my end of the order. The store let the order stand on thier part, I was in 3-4 months later and they still had not received the rifle.
The new stores around me, and a few of the old stores are out of the gun business. they won't carry or special order for you.
The ones that have rifles on display, have several that look rough. Maybe too many people handling and not worrying about minor scratches, ding, etc. Really don't know.
A couple years ago, one store had a Remington CDl in .243 that was pre price increase. Heckava deal, I didn't "need" one, or I would've got it.
It's still worth the look though, you never know what might turn up.
Prob has to do with volumne sellers, just stocking those quick movers.
At one point, they were pretty good about having some fresh released new models. Got a first year Tikka T3for about $450.
They used to carry some of the better Remington heavy varmits, at a fair price, but no more.
They may special order Brownings, but they are not a preferred Browning dealer, so you may wait quite some time for something. I waited 5 months (wasn't in any hurry) for a T Bolt .22. Finally cancelled my end of the order. The store let the order stand on thier part, I was in 3-4 months later and they still had not received the rifle.
The new stores around me, and a few of the old stores are out of the gun business. they won't carry or special order for you.
The ones that have rifles on display, have several that look rough. Maybe too many people handling and not worrying about minor scratches, ding, etc. Really don't know.
A couple years ago, one store had a Remington CDl in .243 that was pre price increase. Heckava deal, I didn't "need" one, or I would've got it.
It's still worth the look though, you never know what might turn up.
When I used to work at a place that packaged (a completely different product) for Walmart among other stores, I was told that was the reason. And I know that's why other retailers (Circuit City, Best Buy) do it.
As for the inferiority, why, in this day and age of parachute lawyers and instant lawsuits would any company in an industry with a ridiculous liability risk let anything approaching a factory second out into the public?
M203Sniper
member
Yes they do. Wal-Mart has second run firearms and ammunition with inferior parts and low quality inspections on the assembly lines. Don't go buying anything from Wal-Mart there because that makes you a second rate consumer, that lil light bulb is not for saving YOU money it's for the employees to know what stuff needs to get it self sold. Same is true for tires and garden equipment, have you ever seen a SEARS truck at a Wal-Mart SEE SEE they aren't the same tires they are DIFFERENT and you can tell by looking at them if you know where, I got a friend that still works at that Wal-Mart in town it's not fancy with a shopping food store in it but it is the kind that just has everything else at huge great low down prices where the quality of thier merchandise is low down and the size of their customers is Waaaay up.
chris in va
Member
Bought two different 22 rifles from WalMart, several years apart. Both wouldn't fire more than 3 rounds at a time.
Coincidence?
Honestly though a WM general manager posted here last year that they do NOT get lower-grade firearms from manufacturers to meet their price point.
Coincidence?
Honestly though a WM general manager posted here last year that they do NOT get lower-grade firearms from manufacturers to meet their price point.
Robert Hairless
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- Oct 11, 2003
- Messages
- 3,983
Of course it's not a coincidence. It's a conspiracy. You've been victimized by the International Consortium. It infuses the .22 rifles in Wal-Mart's Virginia stores with evil spirits that do not allow them to fire more than three rounds before jamming.
The way to defeat those demons is to use better ammunition.
Some demonologists also advise hopping on your right foot, twirling a live squirrel around your head, and singing the Besssarabian National Anthem backwards while you shoot. I have not found that necessary.
FourTeeFive
Member
It looked like forcing the barrel clamp onto the forestock caused the scratching. I'm guessing the wood was slightly out of tolerance or the barrel clamp has burrs on the inside. However, the scratches appear to not go through the finish, so perhaps they were touched up a bit?
Grandpa Shooter
Member
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- Oct 11, 2007
- Messages
- 948
I was at the Walmart near me looking for an NEF Pardner .410. They sell for $117 there. I had talked with the clerk a couple of weeks prior and he said to just keep checking because they sell out almost as soon as they come in.
He did also say he wanted to show me something I might be interested in. He pulled out a Rossi/Braztech combo in .410 and 22. It was selling for $135. It had just come in and was logged into their book. He pulled it out and showed me what it was set up like. It had a polymer stock which I have not seen in other on-line ads. For me it was a plus since I intend to carry it in an ammo can on the front of our quad.
Is it different than what I have seen? Yes, but not lower quality as far as I can tell. Now if you are talking clothes, housewares, tools etc, that is a way different story.
He did also say he wanted to show me something I might be interested in. He pulled out a Rossi/Braztech combo in .410 and 22. It was selling for $135. It had just come in and was logged into their book. He pulled it out and showed me what it was set up like. It had a polymer stock which I have not seen in other on-line ads. For me it was a plus since I intend to carry it in an ammo can on the front of our quad.
Is it different than what I have seen? Yes, but not lower quality as far as I can tell. Now if you are talking clothes, housewares, tools etc, that is a way different story.
You guys may be experts on independent gun stores but you are falling for a common myth about large retailers. Up until about two weeks ago my dad worked for a company who distributes a ton of merchandise primarily to Wal Mart, where he has worked for over 25 years. I can assure you Wal Mart is not buying "inferior" products.
Consider however from a manufacturer's standpoint: Wal Mart is a great customer. You really think a manufacturer of any product (firearms or not) wants to only sell to mom & pop stores that move low volumes, sometimes have a hard time making payroll much less paying suppliers on time, etc? No way. They know that big companies like Wal Mart are extremely good at things like price setting, advertising, marketing, merchandising, moving merchandise off the shelves, accounts payable, etc. Getting a contract with Wal Mart is like a guarantee that your company is going to be successful, as long as you continue to supply a product that Wal Mart can sell consistently.
Of course Wal Mart is going to put downward pressure on price but so what? They operate at very low margins and depend on high volume to make it work. Manufacturers may make the choice to reduce costs of some materials in order to maintain a higher margin at the prices Wal Mart is willing to pay for the product but it's not Wal Mart's fault. If the firearm manufacturer is pure as the wind driven snow and Wal Mart is the bad guy like you guys all seem to think, then they should just tell Wal Mart to shove it and go ahead and only do business with mom & pops. Of course they do this to the peril of their entire business and it'd be corporate suicide and an act of complete and utter stupidity for many manufacturers. Getting Wal Mart to begin ordering your product is like finding the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.
As for different manufacturing lines, or Wal Mart requesting a custom version of the product with different packaging, feature set, maybe even less bells or whistles for some reason, special color, finish, material, etc. is not some kind of evil. In fact Wal Mart wants to be sure that they can consistently provide a product that will sell and their extensive expertise in selling a huge volume of whatever they sell is more than most manufacturer's could gain over multiple lifetimes of selling through small dealers. When they say "we would like this particular item, but with a nylon stock, and $8 less wholesale price" then it's like free consulting service. They are saying "if you are not an idiot, then you will make this for us because we are telling you in no uncertain terms that it will sell better than what you are giving us now". And if that means gearing up a special assembly line just to be sure you can provide Wal Mart with the right quantity of product consistently, then that is smart business. The last thing I want to do as a manufacturer is have Wal Mart make an order and for me to say "well I can't meet that demand because my hand assembly guy is out on a deer hunting trip this week so why don't you go order your million dollars worth of guns from someone else this month, 'K?" No if I'm smart, once Wal Mart starts to order stuff, I will make absolutely sure that when they place an order, I can supply it, on time and reliably. So if that means I have to go to automated assembly of things formerly done by hand, then I will do it. If it means I have to use a type of wood for stocks that doesn't require grain filler before finishing, then that's what I'll use. Whatever it takes, Wal Mart is the big customer and I will bend over backwards to make sure that I give them what they need, promptly, and my business will grow like crazy as long as I keep doing that.
It's hilarious to me how everyone likes to dump on Wal Mart. They are running mom & pop shops out of business. They contribute to urban sprawl. Their stores are not pretty to look at. They buy things from China. This is like a great advertisement for how ignorant the American consumer is on these issues. Look, I run a boutique guitar amp company and I sell a very small quantity of very high profit products and I do not fear Wal Mart because maybe they are going to sell some Korean Squier or First Act value pack for 1/20 of the price I charge for my amps. The reason mom & pop businesses are being "run out" by Wal Mart is because they are not offering products that justify the higher prices to enough consumers to keep them afloat. Either they need to get better at selecting appropriate merchandise, or they deserve to go away. But just saying "we're better because we're not Wal Mart, and you pay more just for it not being from Wal Mart" is a business strategy doomed to failure.
If you want to buy something from Wal Mart, then evaluate the quality, price, convenience, everything and make your choice. If you buy something at a low price from Wal Mart what use is it to complain that it's not a higher-end product? Big whoop? It was cheaper after all! If you want something of higher quality then go somewhere else and pay more for it. That's the beauty of choice.
I, for one, wish my local Wal Marts sold firearms. I am not a gun cork sniffer. This is not my hobby. I am in it for basic utility and nothing else. I find the lowest price I can and buy that, never look back. I suspect that if Wal Mart sells more firearms, that's more gun owners, more RKBA supporters (potentially), more voters that are likely to vote for candidates who support RKBA, more NRA members, more hunters, more people defending themselves against BGs with guns, and it is only good for the gun business overall. Railing against Wal Mart's gun sales just reduces the number of guns in the market and is not a productive way to support the cause.
Sorry for the long diatribe.
Consider however from a manufacturer's standpoint: Wal Mart is a great customer. You really think a manufacturer of any product (firearms or not) wants to only sell to mom & pop stores that move low volumes, sometimes have a hard time making payroll much less paying suppliers on time, etc? No way. They know that big companies like Wal Mart are extremely good at things like price setting, advertising, marketing, merchandising, moving merchandise off the shelves, accounts payable, etc. Getting a contract with Wal Mart is like a guarantee that your company is going to be successful, as long as you continue to supply a product that Wal Mart can sell consistently.
Of course Wal Mart is going to put downward pressure on price but so what? They operate at very low margins and depend on high volume to make it work. Manufacturers may make the choice to reduce costs of some materials in order to maintain a higher margin at the prices Wal Mart is willing to pay for the product but it's not Wal Mart's fault. If the firearm manufacturer is pure as the wind driven snow and Wal Mart is the bad guy like you guys all seem to think, then they should just tell Wal Mart to shove it and go ahead and only do business with mom & pops. Of course they do this to the peril of their entire business and it'd be corporate suicide and an act of complete and utter stupidity for many manufacturers. Getting Wal Mart to begin ordering your product is like finding the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.
As for different manufacturing lines, or Wal Mart requesting a custom version of the product with different packaging, feature set, maybe even less bells or whistles for some reason, special color, finish, material, etc. is not some kind of evil. In fact Wal Mart wants to be sure that they can consistently provide a product that will sell and their extensive expertise in selling a huge volume of whatever they sell is more than most manufacturer's could gain over multiple lifetimes of selling through small dealers. When they say "we would like this particular item, but with a nylon stock, and $8 less wholesale price" then it's like free consulting service. They are saying "if you are not an idiot, then you will make this for us because we are telling you in no uncertain terms that it will sell better than what you are giving us now". And if that means gearing up a special assembly line just to be sure you can provide Wal Mart with the right quantity of product consistently, then that is smart business. The last thing I want to do as a manufacturer is have Wal Mart make an order and for me to say "well I can't meet that demand because my hand assembly guy is out on a deer hunting trip this week so why don't you go order your million dollars worth of guns from someone else this month, 'K?" No if I'm smart, once Wal Mart starts to order stuff, I will make absolutely sure that when they place an order, I can supply it, on time and reliably. So if that means I have to go to automated assembly of things formerly done by hand, then I will do it. If it means I have to use a type of wood for stocks that doesn't require grain filler before finishing, then that's what I'll use. Whatever it takes, Wal Mart is the big customer and I will bend over backwards to make sure that I give them what they need, promptly, and my business will grow like crazy as long as I keep doing that.
It's hilarious to me how everyone likes to dump on Wal Mart. They are running mom & pop shops out of business. They contribute to urban sprawl. Their stores are not pretty to look at. They buy things from China. This is like a great advertisement for how ignorant the American consumer is on these issues. Look, I run a boutique guitar amp company and I sell a very small quantity of very high profit products and I do not fear Wal Mart because maybe they are going to sell some Korean Squier or First Act value pack for 1/20 of the price I charge for my amps. The reason mom & pop businesses are being "run out" by Wal Mart is because they are not offering products that justify the higher prices to enough consumers to keep them afloat. Either they need to get better at selecting appropriate merchandise, or they deserve to go away. But just saying "we're better because we're not Wal Mart, and you pay more just for it not being from Wal Mart" is a business strategy doomed to failure.
If you want to buy something from Wal Mart, then evaluate the quality, price, convenience, everything and make your choice. If you buy something at a low price from Wal Mart what use is it to complain that it's not a higher-end product? Big whoop? It was cheaper after all! If you want something of higher quality then go somewhere else and pay more for it. That's the beauty of choice.
I, for one, wish my local Wal Marts sold firearms. I am not a gun cork sniffer. This is not my hobby. I am in it for basic utility and nothing else. I find the lowest price I can and buy that, never look back. I suspect that if Wal Mart sells more firearms, that's more gun owners, more RKBA supporters (potentially), more voters that are likely to vote for candidates who support RKBA, more NRA members, more hunters, more people defending themselves against BGs with guns, and it is only good for the gun business overall. Railing against Wal Mart's gun sales just reduces the number of guns in the market and is not a productive way to support the cause.
Sorry for the long diatribe.
Master of Arms
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- Apr 9, 2008
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- 336
Awsome point ^
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