Don't be that guy!!!-Lessons learned from Big-Bore Revolvers

Status
Not open for further replies.
I almost got my first .44 magnum back in the mid-1970s when a Dirty Harriet took her first and only shot with her new S&W Mod. 29 and opened the skin on her forehead with the first round. Forty years later I am still amused by folk who bring large caliber guns to the range and find out that recoil is a problem that they didn't appreciate.

I've been an instructor with handgun and rifle for years...my recommended starting guns are .22LR. I started with that load when I was 8 and, sixty years later, still believe my first instructor got it right.

FH
 
This reminds me of my last range trip. Five or Six kids with a video camera rented a S&W 500. The guys passed it around and shot a couple rounds. Then they gave it to a girl, she lined up and took a shot and the recoil caused her to double tap one right through the ceiling! I don't think a single person in the building noticed it but me. I was going up to say say something to the guy behind the counter but they quit right after that anyway.

Hopefully everyone on here who watches those videos of poorly instructed people shooting big guns doesn't find it funny. I know I don't.
 
Well I just want to strengthen this story with all the neigh sayers that I have seen and been a part of similar things. Never seen a SO take off like that though. Once upon a time I went shooting with my cousin and his girlfriend and I had a new 500 that we were shooting. I was new to big magnums at the time and had never heard of a double fire. My cousins girlfriend wanted to shoot it, I was glad she did although hesitant. The worst I thought would happen was the gun would go flying so I told her to hold onto it and gave my cousin a full cylinder and told him To shoot up what ever she didnt. Now, she new full well that the gun would be a handful and recoil would likely be more than She could handle. She wanted to anyway. Well I took a picture right as she was firing and sure enough the dreaded double tap happened. The picture showed the handgun in full recoil pointed straight at her face. Fortunately the second round went off at some point before it made it all the way around to her head but I was mortified. I couldn't believe how close she came to dieing just from that it makes me sick to my stomach when I think about it. I have not since let a woman fire anything more than the .357s I own and always advise against it when I am with others. I can not tell you how grateful I am that she did not get hurt.

And to those of you assuming that the people involved would be more intelligent than to let that happen, think again. You must not get out much.
 
I have not since let a woman fire anything more than the .357s I own and ..

They are your guns and that's your right, but isn't that taking it too far? I would think showing them how to shoot (and single loading/starting with light loads) would be OK. I have seen women, women who couldn't have weighed 125lbs, shooting full load .460s&w without any problem.
 
its not my fault people do stuff like that. Nor is it my fault that the type of idjut who does that crap is the one these females consider the superior stock for dating and interacting with, while those who dont do that stuff never get a date
 
I am drawn and and have an over whelming love for big bore magnum handguns, it's just in my DNA regarding firearms in general I guess. But I have had the opportunity numerous times over the years to introduce, those who are completely ignorant to firearms, to this wonderful hobby, broad recreational experience it offers, and the purposeful value of a firearm. I couldn't even imagine doing something so thoughtless and irresponsible, what a moron.

When my wife met me she had never fired a weapon. And although I had a few big ore magnum wheel guns, I started her with a 22 revolver. Eventually, and when she felt ready, I had her handling a full house 44 mag. with confidence and authority in no time. But by no means should anyone ever hand someone who lacks any, or even only has limited experience handling firearms, regardless of what it's chambered in, a loaded gun and says go ahead, just pull the trigger. That's just a tragic accident waiting to happen.

I've probably had more extreme close calls of nearly having my head completely blown off by morons exhibiting zero safe gun handling practices, than most. Seriously, from big bore handguns, high powered rifles, to shotguns, and all of these occurred at point blank range, which probably contributes to my permanent hearing loss I'm sure. So to say I'm observant to others who are shooting around me, would be a gross understatement.

As for getting involved and intervene if circumstances indicate there is a high risk of someone getting injured, I do. That's probably a residual response of way back when I taught some firearm classes as a young man. So I react accordingly, as should any responsible person who is observant and witnesses dangerous gun handling practices, I even do it with friends and family. And I can honestly say I've almost always had a positive experience at ranges when approaching someone who may have been continuously sweeping me with their barrel. It's an issue of training in my mind, so I usually take on that personality, and usually when I say something to them, I do so in a low tone, so that no one else can hear the discussion, embarrassing someone in front of their friend or by standers only causes humiliation. And then I just in an "as a matter of fact tone " tell them, they need to please control their barrel and that I'm being sweeped. I feel my message needs to be firm and uncompromising, as there actions put my own personal safety in serious jeopardy.

That is how I view gun safety, in that, there is no compromise, safe handling must be responsibly observed, addressed, and corrected when ever possible.

An 8mm projectile struck so close to my head against the concrete wall I was leaning up against, it blew concrete chunks into my scalp/head.

A 20 ga. shotgun that the barrel had bounced off the top of my head almost simultaneously as it discharged. My close friend, a long time military man as well, was climbing up the side of a wash close behind me. It was a 12 ga. single shot, he had the hammer cocked, his finger on the trigger, and then he slipped.

GS
 
Last edited:
Read the first post and a few others.

I HATE guys that do that to anyone esp females. I have trained many first time women shooters. Women are fantastic on following directions and pay attention and ask good questions!

I love to teach women because on avg they really want to learn. I let them shoot .22s and work the way up in caliber and safety. After the official class they get to shoot whatever firearms I have brought. Most really love the 10-22 and I supply all the thunderduds they can use.

Most women are a sponge when it comes to learning about firearms and safety and are not afraid to ask "why" and "why not". I have seen women put quarters down betting in who can shoot best with the 10-22. I never discourage them as they are really having fun. I also warn them that larger calibers have more recoil and how to manage it.

About 1/3 of the women love the 1911 .45 and love the loud noise and recoil and learning to control it. Most comments about the 1911 is "it just fits my hand better". They have to pay for .45 rounds after the class and many do!

I can teach women faster with more retention than men, I'm not sure why that is. They all love the fact that any pistol can be ceracoated to any color, I guess to match thier shoes or whatever. Women ROCK and really pay attention and get to be deadly shots in just one range day.

Men who put a .44 mag in the hands in a first time shooter really makes me mad. They take a possible pro second amendment person and turn them OFF firearms and you know how women talk!

Many new students come from women who get 3 women friends to end up calling me to set up a 2 day class. One day is classroom to take away the mystery of firearms and the next day is range day and a long one at that.

I'm not sure of the figures but from what I have heard the women go on to get a CCW. Plus I'm getting more calls from the women wanting to get daughters and sons to take the class before they go off to college.

My goal is to create more second amendment lovers and get them to spread the love. I still get calls from students from 5 years ago asking what I think about some new pistol they are thinking about. It makes me feel very nice knowing I have created women who have really intergrated pistols into thier lives and are spreading the word.

More than a few have moved to full auto and/or suppressors. Only one has ask about reloading and I passed her on to a reloader friend for her .308

If you see an a$$hat put a new shooter on line with a .44 mag please step up and warn the poor girl/boy about what will happen when they pull the trigger. To heck with the person that said it was going to be funny. We need all the shoters we can get! One mad women can can become an antigun proponent with one shot and believe me she will will spread the word on how BAD firearms are.

Sorry for the rant but the OP observations really makes me mad.

Make shooters not haters. It really is that simple!

EDIT just to keep it on topic many of the women less than 50% that go onto shooting like the .38 special many of those +p as a choice.
I teach the women and let them shoot revolvers, pistols and rifles.

The best question I ask is "how would you stop someone from abducting your child if it was just you, him and your child.
 
Last edited:
"- the range manager would be crazy to deny rental of the gun because the couple fit some stereotypical description.."

mgmorden - C'mon - we are not talking about voting rights here - we are talking about personal safety and the continuing protection of our 2'nd Amendment rights! Should we be afraid to "profile" in this situation? Why endanger people and give ammo to the anti-gun movement by arming idiots beyond their level of competency? What is to be lost by saying , "Sorry , I reserve my right to not serve you."? For goodness sakes - bartenders are dragged into court for NOT taking that stance.
What part of "Shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

Check out the videos again. It's men of all socioeconomic backgrounds (I'm basing this on clothing worn, cars visable, & firearms used), different ages, group sizes, height, weight, race, etc...
Just because someone is younger does not mean they're more prone to do this. Ignorance and lack of respect for the firearm because of poor instruction is.

Stop being biased toward younger people. This happens non stop in our community and there is no basis for it.

And for the earlier poster that thought they were sly for judging a person by what they were wearing, grow up. The clothing you described may not be my cup of tea, but I'm not superior in any way because I don't wear it.

Start judging people by the content of their character.
 
The guy steps back and runs out of the range, My brother ran to the girl and helped her to a chair and we called ems and as far as we know she is alright just has a mild concussion, we didnt see or hear from that guy again.

The only good thing that came out of this is that she now knows what kind of person he is. And hopefully she avoids him like how he will be avoiding that gun range.
 
But by no means should anyone ever hand someone who lacks any, or even only has limited experience handling firearms, regardless of what it's chambered in, a loaded gun and says go ahead, just pull the trigger. That's just a tragic accident waiting to happen.

Funny enough, this is how my first shooting experience was. My buddy went over the four safety rules first, handed me his Super Redhawk .44 so I could see it, then loaded it up with full bore loads and handed it to me, and said "Hang on to it." I'm blessed enough to be 6'3" and 195 lbs though, so while I did need to hold on, it wasn't like these poor tiney gals who end up getting hurt. I also didn't realize that he was being a crack dealer that day...... The first one is free, but then your hooked for life, and you have to pay for future fixes.

They are your guns and that's your right, but isn't that taking it too far? I would think showing them how to shoot (and single loading/starting with light loads) would be OK. I have seen women, women who couldn't have weighed 125lbs, shooting full load .460s&w without any problem.

Absolutely true. Women can shoot magnum large bore revolvers as well as any man, so long as their hands are large enough and strong enough to grip the gun. But the rest of it is technique, not physical size or strength. If you needed to be a hulk to shoot them, they would be very poorly designed guns indeed. Though, being large and strong does certainly make it easier to keep the gun on target, and to deal with the recoil. Same principle as shooting the same cartridge/load out of different weight guns or guns with different barrel lengths. More mass behind the gun = better recoil absorbing potential.

My close friend, a long time military man as well, was climbing up the side of a wash close behind me.

I find this interesting. I used to shoot with two former military guys. One of them is a very proficient handgunner and shooter in general. He is safe, he knows what he is doing, and we can talk endlessly about firearms in general.

The other is the most unsafe shooter I've ever seen. He had shoulder surgery, and decides he wants to shoot his Mossberg 500 a week afterwards. He couldn't work the pump with his bad shoulder. So what does he proceed to do? He wedges it in his groin to get the leverage he needs to chamber shells. Then he asks me if I want to shoot it. I said sure, expecting he'd let me load it and take over since he was stoved up. He proceeds to load it one handed on the tailgate of his truck, with it pointed in the general direction of, though maybe 20 or 30 degrees off from, where other shooters are standing. Granted, it wasnt chambered, but I still pointed it out. Then he chambers a round again by wedging it against his groin, and hands it to me with the safety off. I don't shoot with him much anymore since I got sick of watching him like a hawk.

I bring him up because he was shooting my 460 the first time, and he happens to be really small. I saw him bring the gun in real close to his face so it was like looking through an open rifle sight I guess. I yell and wave my arms. "Hey! That thing will knock you cold if you pull the trigger right now! Hold it out like normal!" I think his shoulder was making the X frame too heavy to hold out at arm's length. Then he fired, and understood exactly why I made a big deal out of it.
 
They are your guns and that's your right, but isn't that taking it too far? I would think showing them how to shoot (and single loading/starting with light loads) would be OK. I have seen women, women who couldn't have weighed 125lbs, shooting full load .460s&w without any problem.

Yes I know they are capable, and if a tenacious enough woman comes along and is willing to work up to it I may just let them. But that hasn't happened yet, and the few that have gone with me since have been content shooting smaller stuff. None have shown interest In The big bores, and frankly I am not going to push the matter. The only ones with a problem with that rule have been other men trying to push their women into it. After I tell them the story about my cousins GF they let it go. (usually I go shooting with other guys, not from discrimination, but it just tends to work out that way)
 
its not my fault people do stuff like that. Nor is it my fault that the type of idjut who does that crap is the one these females consider the superior stock for dating and interacting with, while those who dont do that stuff never get a date

So true.

On another note, I have people in my place of work buying .44s and .357s who are new, or relatively new to firearms. Personally I have no issue selling these guns, as I thoroughly explain the difference between the magnum and special loads. I also typically suggest a 6 in or longer barrel, do you folks think this is a bad idea for a first gun?
 
Three days later and 62 posts and nobody notes what day the OP
posted this on.....April 1st?
Dave
 
Personally I have no issue selling these guns, as I thoroughly explain the difference between the magnum and special loads. I also typically suggest a 6 in or longer barrel, do you folks think this is a bad idea for a first gun?

Not at all. You explain, so your doing your job to take reasonable measures to make sure the buyer is advised of the strong recoil. Saying nothing would be pretty lame. .357 is a common first gun. Do you get a lot of people buying .44's for their first gun? Just curious.

Three days later and 62 posts and nobody notes what day the OP
posted this on.....April 1st?

So was this a joke? I didn't think it was?
 
Yep. This is the work of a small man, as is evidenced by his hasty retreat after the lass hurt herself.

I too was the victim of a little man when I started, who gave me a 375 H&H for my first centerfire shooting experience. Ringed my eye with his scope, blood everywhere. Stitches. He was laughing, he thought it was so funny, so I smeared my blood on his face with my thumb, and across his mouth. He stopped laughing after that and was very offended.

It is a small man indeed who laughs at the pain of others.

I think he's dead now.
 
Don't be that guy!!!-Lessons learned from Big-Bore Revolvers

I have heard people laugh about handing a 4.5 pound 12ga shotgun with Tennite plastic stock and a hi-brass 2.75" duck load, telling them don't worry about the recoil, it's lighter than that .22 rifle you just shot. Not just a problem with Big-Bore Revolvers; it's a problem with "pranksters".

If I started a beginner with my .357 it would be with .38 wadcutters and we'd work up to the bearstopper loads as confidence was gained.

Destroying confidence of a noobie is no way to grow the sport.
 
Last edited:
Do you get a lot of people buying .44's for their first gun? Just curious.

Not THAT many. A few here and there. Mostly you get the guys who buy that as a first gun. I did sell one4 inch smith to a very nice couple, who wanted some protection on their RV. They also bought 3 other guns too.
 
Last edited:
Not only is it stupid it is really dangerous to the shooters and possibly spectators.
 
It really upsets me that someone would do this. But doesn't surprise me one bit. Friends and I do quite a bit of big bore shooting. We will never sugar coat what the recoil is like. After the incident with the woman getting killed by an inadvertent double tap we changed the way we load for folks that have never shot a big bore. Let's face it we shoot them alot and a double tap has happened to each of us.

When we have someone that has never shot one before ONLY ONE ROUND is loaded into the cylinder. Someone will typically stand off to the side of the shooter to block the gun from hitting them in the forehead if they can't manage the recoil. This is the way they will continue to shoot with us until both the shooter and we are comfortable with their abilities.
 
Been there and have seen that. Never understood why any idiot would hand any gun with substantial recoil to a new inexperienced shooter and expect the outcome to be funny. The video links posted by RC cover things nicely.

Maybe about 10 years ago I took my annual West Virginia hunting trip. I would always bring my Ruger 44 Carbine along with my S&W Model 29 Revolver. My friend Herm lived right on a river in lovely Webster Springs W. VA. His latest and greatest girlfriend Bobbi had to tell me over and over again how WV girls were all great shots and guns were in their blood. She really wanted to shoot my Model 29 which I refused over and over again.

Finally Herm asked if he could take my revolver down by the river and shoot a few. Cool with me. I had already opened a beer and with me it's shootings done time for fun. Once I open a beer my shooting is done for the day. Herm had not yet opened a beer so fine with me.

Herm with Bobbi in tow, her mouth still running walked down to the river. I hear bang, followed by bang. Then a pause... then bang followed by a scream which freaked me out and got me to my feet. Here comes Herm and Bobbi with Bobbi holding her head and a bloody hand. Herm holding my revolver. The third bang was Bobbi shooting my gun which promptly came back and nailed her between the eyes with the target hammer. A chunk of flesh and blood on my gun. My conclusion was not all WV girls are marksmen and many aren't all that bright either. Herm passed away a few years ago and every time I look at the scratch on my Model 29 barrel from Bobbi dropping it when it impacted her head I remember that story.

Ron
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top