Don't stop and help people on the side of the road

[MachIVshooter]

Much of small-town America is now abandoned or devoid of hope, with viable businesses replaced by methamphetamine manufacture and trade.

Cell phone coverage is extrmely widespread in most areas (exceptions have been mentioned), making it possible for the both the good samaritan and the real stranded traveler to summon help.

The full-service gasoline stain with mechanics is largely a thing of the past. One cannot even get a flat fixed easily those days.

Today's automobiles are extremely complex, and the liklihood that anyone without specialized tools and diagnostic gear would be able to help much is rather low. A tow truck or flat-bed may be needed.

I don't disagree with the first point, but I will address the other 3:

-Cell coverage ain't that great in a whole lot of places. Once you get away from urban & suburban areas, there are huge gaps in service. I have no signal in half of my county, and we're only 30 miles from Denver. Population out here isn't that low, either, at about 13 people/sq mi average.

Full service filling stations are nowhere near as commonplace as they once were, but you'd be hard pressed to find a town that has a presence on the map without at least one or two full service shops. Doesn't mean parts availabilty will be great, of course.....

And yes, modern cars are very complex. But the problems that strand them now are very frequently the same things that did 40 years ago. I get a lot of cars on the hook that have lost a belt due to a seized idler pulley or water pump, ruptured coolant hoses or radiator tanks, severely corroded battery terminals, etc. All my tens of thousands of dollars worth "specialized tools and diagnostic equipment" do not get used on 4 out 5 cars that come in. Everything is metric now, but most repairs are still done with old school wrenches, sockets, screwdrivers and pliers. I have approximately $154,000 invested in tools over my 16 year career, and do the majority of repairs with about 5% of them.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

I have mixed feelings about this. I have stopped to help people, and people have stopped to help me. But now that I have a family, I find myself less likely to stop. Make a call, sure. But as a practical matter, there's not much more than that I can do anyway; I don't carry a toolbox and wouldn't know what to do with one if I did. And I'm certainly not going to put my family at risk - which, being a husband, father, and sole provider, means not putting myself at risk either.

I am my brother's keeper, but my family comes first. I'll do what I can to help yours, if I can do so without endangering my own, but I will always bear in mind what is often said here - it's not the odds, it's the stakes.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Sorry but I'm just not terrified of everything to the point that I won't stop and help someone on the road. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I always have, and always will be the guy to stop and lend a hand on a 98 degree July afternoon when hundreds of others passed by because they were scared. One day I may get myself into a pickle doing so, but IL deal with that situation when it arises.

I'm kind of shocked that members of "the high road" are too good to assist others.

I don't think it's a matter of "too good" or "too scared" but another reason that is likely to be considered low road so I'll keep it to myself. The closest Sister Beatrice would let me come would be calling it "siege mentality" but even that is only a nudge in the right direction.

FWIW - our family has something of a tradition that when the snow starts flying and a certain stretch of nearby highway becomes nearly impossibly slick one (or more) of us take the tractor out to pull unfortunate travelers out of the side ditches. The largest personality problem we've run into so far was the guy that seemed indignant to having his 65K car hooked to a piece of farm machinery. After the guy stopped complaining Dad put the chain back on the tractor, told the guy it didn't make sense to hook his quarter million dollar John Deere to his cheap foreign car and drove on. Even then Dad radioed the guy that runs the tow truck.

 

[Mainsail]

It's dynamic, never static.

When the helpless-person-on-the-side-of-the-road tactic stops working, something new will get tried.

Saying, "Don't help people on the side of the road" is the same as saying, "Don't leave the bunker".

The best thing you can do it just live your life and have situational awareness. If you want to help someone, then help someone. If you're afraid of everything, stay home.

 

[zxcvbob]

FWIW - our family has something of a tradition that when the snow starts flying and a certain stretch of nearby highway becomes nearly impossibly slick one (or more) of us take the tractor out to pull unfortunate travelers out of the side ditches.

♫ "When you're loaded with potatoes and you're headed down
You've gotta drive the woods to get to Boston town.
When it's winter up in Maine better check it over twice,
That Haynesville road is just a ribbon of ice." ♪

 

[swampcrawler]

A while back there were some teens running a similar scam on a stretch of airline hwy just outside of baton rouge. The 20 something female stand out trying to flag someone down to help while her two male assistants lay in wait. When someone stopped they would attack them with a baseball bat, take the wallet and run.

Their last victim was a 70 something year old man. Fortunately the old man saw the attackers reflection in the Window of the car and turned to deliver a .357 magnum round to the groin. Needless to say this group is no longer running their scam.

Yes there are bad people out there. A lot of them. I'd never advise my grandfather or my mother or girlfriend to stop on side of the road to try to help someone as they have practically no chance of defending themselves.

I personally stand 6 ft 6 and weigh in at 330 lbs. I carry a handgun and there is an 870 in a door wrack in my truck. I feel that I'm fairly capable defending myself, but moreover I realize that I make a very poor target. Someone running such a scam is, I feel, far less likely to attack a big bearded bear of a man when there are easier targets out there.

Please don't take this to mean that I think I'm invincible, I don't. I know that a bullet or blade affects me in the same way as everyone else.

But all in all, I feel relatively safe in rendering assistance to the single mother stranded at top an interstate overpass with a terrified crying 3 year old in the back seat. I had the jack and lug wrench and was able to throw on her spare and get her out of a highly risky part of the road much more quickly than if she had waited on her father to get there.

Cops usually won't do much that doesn't collect revenue down there.

However, if I run across 3 young men at 2 am in the middle of nowhere, I'd be a little less inclined to help.

 

[chrisb507]

As a kid, my father always stopped for cars on the side of the road. Always. I spent a memorable portion of my childhood waiting in our car with my mom and brothers while dad helped some stranded motorist. Robberies, muggings, rapes, beatings and shootings I saw over maybe a two dozen stops: 0.

Today, I will stop if the situation warrants it. I won't stop for a car on the side of the road like my dad used to, will certainly if I think help is needed. I've stopped for accidents, cars in the roadway, tires being changed, etc. Robberies, muggings, rapes, beatings and shootings I have been subject to over maybe a dozen stops: 0.

So yeah, I get it, the world is a scary place where anyone could kill me at any time, but, I guess I wasn't raised to just ignore people in need on the off-chance that they may want to kill me. I suppose I would want someone to stop to help me if I needed it, too.

 

[Davek1977]

The "I do it, and nothing bad has ever happened to me" posts amuse me, because, if something HAD happened, there is a good chance you wouldn't be here to talk about it. We can all say we've done things maybe we shouldn't have and survived. Those that did something they shouldn't have, and didn't..... don't have the luxury of posting about it in hindsight. Of course the "I do it and I'm fine" posts heavily outweigh the "I did it once, and now I'm dead" posts! Its my responsibility to maintain my safety and that of my wife, and avoiding potentially dangerous scenarios with a great number of unknowns and possible outcomes is part of that protection/self-preservation. I'm not willing to trade my own personal safety for that of a stranger's. I will make a phone call or make sure they otherwise get help, but I won't stop for unknown people with unknown intentions. Living in a predominately rural area, encountering "strangers" along the road is rare, but I WILL stop and help and friend or neighbor in need. If I can help, without compromising my safety too a degree I'm uncomfortable with, I will, but if there is anything about the scenario thats makes me uneasy, I won't stop and will otherwise try to provide assistance from afar

 

[chrisb507]

The "I do it, and nothing bad has ever happened to me" posts amuse me, because, if something HAD happened, there is a good chance you wouldn't be here to talk about it. We can all say we've done things maybe we shouldn't have and survived.

Exactly. Same thing with the "one guy did it once and how he's dead" posts. Both are just anecdotes...about one single time and place...and basically speak to the risks of stopping.

As for the stakes of stopping, heck, driving itself is one of the most dangerous things you can do. Accidents outweigh homicides as causes of death. (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/deaths.htm).

 

[swampcrawler]

Above post is one of my favorites so far.

 

[hso]

Since the OP is based on a fraud I'm going to approach this as a general topic.

Should you stop and help people stranded on the roadside? Of course you should unless you know you're in a bad neighborhood, but with appropriate caution. Do you want you or your family ignored by passersby? How sad would that be that we've become so paranoid.

Pull past the trouble before pulling over so you can put them between you and traffic and so you can assess the situation. If you're not completely comfortable pull a little far forward of the situation to give yourself a better view and more time to evaluate whether you're able to help before the stranded motorist has the chance to walk up to you.

Should you call it in? Of course you should. You want someone to know you've stopped to provide assistance so the authorities might be able to send a roadside assistance vehicle to assist with your assist. Do you call 911? Probably not unless it is an accident scene or someone appears to be in medical trouble. There are plenty of non or lesser emergency numbers in most states to get someone on the phone to provide assistance. Most states have a three digit 411/511/XYZ number for DOT or Highway/State Patrol.


Life is not a movie and we should not live it like we're going to find a hook attached to the car door/bumper.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Since the OP is based on a fraud I'm going to approach this as a general topic.

Should you stop and help people stranded on the roadside? Of course you should unless you know you're in a bad neighborhood, but with appropriate caution. Do you want you or your family ignored by passersby? How sad would that be that we've become so paranoid.

Pull past the trouble before pulling over so you can put them between you and traffic and so you can assess the situation. If you're not completely comfortable pull a little far forward of the situation to give yourself a better view and more time to evaluate whether you're able to help before the stranded motorist has the chance to walk up to you.

Should you call it in? Of course you should. You want someone to know you've stopped to provide assistance so the authorities might be able to send a roadside assistance vehicle to assist with your assist. Do you call 911? Probably not unless it is an accident scene or someone appears to be in medical trouble. There are plenty of non or lesser emergency numbers in most states to get someone on the phone to provide assistance. Most states have a three digit 411/511/XYZ number for DOT or Highway/State Patrol.


Life is not a movie and we should not live it like we're going to find a hook attached to the car door/bumper.

Amen. This isn't some false dichotomy where the options are to bebop out at 3 a.m. to help four guys with gang tats change their tire while unarmed and listening to your iPod via headphones or to drive past at 90 mph on the wrong side of the road in your uparmored Humvee with the gun turret covering the stranded motorist with her 3-month old trying to get the jack under the frame.

Just use a little bit of common sense, a little bit of situational awareness, a little bit of cell phone, and little bit of decency and kindness, eh?

 

[RustyShackelford]

Post #73: Audie Murphy, small towns.....

I disagree with the remarks in post #73. There are no "good deaths" . Yes you can die fighting for a cause you believe in & you shouldn't be a coward or afraid to stand up to evil or attackers but you should also use your head & mitigate the risks involved.
Major Audie Murphy, the MoH recipient & the highest decorated soldier of WWII once said; "never get into a foxhole with someone braver than you".
A isolated road or a dark highway is not where Im going to play super-hero & think I could fight off multiple subjects.

I also agree with the small town post. The community where I grew up is now smaller than when I lived there in the 1980s. It's around 60% or the size. My cell phone(Virgin Mobile USA) didn't have service either in spots .
FWIW; when I returned after several years in 2013, I OCed a lot. I had my M&P Compact .45acp in a Blackhawk SERPA with a factory 10rd magazine as a spare.
The area wasn't unsafe or dangerous but many streets/stores were vacant & it had fewer residents-visitors.

 

[MedWheeler]

(redacted pending further review.)

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Medwheeler: Kleanbore, I think we get it. You won't offer aid.

Didn't say that. Here's what I said:

If it is clear that your help could prevent death or injury, you have no choice.

But if it's just a matter of seeing to someone sitting at roadside, you do. You can readily summon someone else to render assistance, which is quite likely what you will end up doing anyway.

I said that I will summon help. That is "offering aid".

I also said that dropping off some water or blankets might be indicated from time to time.

I also asked wether others pick up hitch-hikers. I did not say that I won't. But I would be very unlikely to do so.

(Heck, in another thread, you confirmed you'll never even answer your own door.)

Wrong again.

I do not open a door unless I have a good idea about who is there.

When I answer the door, I do not do so with gun in hand. Nor do I recommend standing directly in front of the door when I answer it.

Now, sometimes I do not answer the door. If it's someone going from house to house dropping off leaflets or trying to get money or signatures, I just let the bell ring.

 

[taliv]

i still pick up hitchhikers.

they're pretty rare these days though.

about the only time i don't is if i'm late for something important or if i have a whole back seat full of guns cause i was too lazy to empty my truck from the range trip the night before.

 

[DeepSouth]

I said that I will summon help. That is "offering aid".

Not nessarily, it may well not be. What it could be is to little to late, which is no help at all.

Me personally, if I believe someone is in need I will try to help. It's really it that simple. Every time I see this conversation this comes to mind:

A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

I know I'm simplistic, and I understand the logic of the opposite view to some degree. Anyway, I'll just go on and bow out now before I say something not high road.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by taliv: i still pick up hitchhikers.

I seem to recall reading something to the effect that hitchhikers assume more risk than the people who pick them up. Dunno.

I do not recall ever having picked up a hitchhiker. I don't think I'd really mind having one in the passenger seat if I had someone in back.

Once after a radiator hose had blown, I started walking. A station wagon stopped and picked me up. Middle aged couple on the way to the MO State Fair. The man showed a Colt snubbie (illegal then) and warned me about trying to take any of the pies in the back.

Another time a couple of us ran out of gas next to a farm house on Route 66 in Illinois. I started walking. I tried to flag down an IL State Patrol car, but all I got was a thumbs down. A guy in a pickup stopped. I had to sit on top of a bunch of warm freshly killed pheasants on the passenger seat. Model 12 Winchester, by the way. They guy poured some gas from the tank of an old Farmall and took me back to the car.

Today, of course, we would have called for help on a cell phone.

 

[taliv]

hitchhikers assume more risk than the people who pick them up.

heh, that's how i'd figure it, for sure


Used to be, I'd see a car on the side of the road with gas cap lid open, then a mile or two later, some guy/girl walking. always seemed pretty low risk for me, pretty high risk for them.

If they're walking, and look tired, i always figured an ambush was pretty unlikely.

About the only thing I can tell you for certain is that if you pick up the ones holding a cardboard sign, you'd best start thinking about volume discounts on febreeze

 

[MedWheeler]

Kleanbore, I tried to pull my post pending further review, but you had caught it anyway, so I should respond.

In the "answer door" thread, posts 13 and 14, we mentioned addressing a knock at the door, but never discussed going to it with a gun in hand, nor actually opening it.

I thought, since you said no gun should be brought to the door, you were saying one should always disarm before approaching it. Of course, I can't see you thinking this, but that's how it reads, since the phrase "in hand" was omitted.

So, I had speculated you would not approach the door in the first place, and you replied that that was probably good advice. So, I took it to mean you encourage ignoring a door knock at any time. (We do all know that there are times when that would be prudent.)

Back to this thread: I am surprised, and maybe in even a good way, that, although you've ruled out stopping for a party stranded on the roadside, you still do not appear to have entirely ruled out picking up a hitchhiker. I think it's been 25 or more years since I've done that, but I don't think it's ever been a male.

 

[RustyShackelford]

My state; abandonment.....

My state has a abandonment statue that says if you witness or go by a scene and ignore or refuse to help a victim you can face a formal charge.

This was 2000 or so when I was first informed of this state law. I honestly don't know how much legal weight or credibility it could hold in a criminal court.
Drivers or motorists can come up with a 1000 reasons why they couldn't or wouldn't stop to render aid/help a traffic accident victim.
I don't even know how a state trooper or LE officer could identify or investigate a by-stander or driver for this charge.
A recent media article in my metro area had a public affairs Sgt with the state highway patrol say back-logs & traffic incidents cause local troopers to take up to six hours to respond.

Rusty

 

[Working Man]

I have helped and been helped many times and the cycle will continue as long as I do.

Each person has to live by their own conscience and act accordingly within their own abilities. Regardless if it is direct or indirect aid I would hope that most if not all THR members would do something.

Whichever choice is made, we must always be careful as we might not be around to help the next person. That reality should not stop us from rendering aid as we can but remain with us so we can continue doing so.

This thread brings to mind the words of Edmund Burke — 'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.'

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Once after a radiator hose had blown, I started walking. A station wagon stopped and picked me up. Middle aged couple on the way to the MO State Fair. The man showed a Colt snubbie (illegal then) and warned me about trying to take any of the pies in the back.

Those must have been some pies.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by MedWheeler: So, I had speculated you would not approach the door in the first place, and you replied that that was probably good advice. So, I took it to mean you encourage ignoring a door knock at any time.

NO!

I had just posted a video by Massad Ayoob. He did not ignore the knock, did he?

Nor did he approach the door, and he gave a pretty good reason.

He stood back, and kept moving while he talked.

 

[Kleanbore]

Risk Assessment

There are all kinds of articles and TV program segments on how to respond to a knock on the door. I do not consider the likelihood of danger to be more than very remote, but it is prudent to be cautious.

The dangers inherent in hitch-hiking (to whom may be in question) have been covered in police films and school lectures and articles for as long as I can remember. People have done it and have gotten by with it for decades. There have also been a fair number of victims.

The risks involved in trying to render aid to a purported stranded motorist were addressed in episodes of The Best Defense and Personal Defense TV a couple of seasons ago. The Florida State Police warned some time ago that robbers were using the scam to attract unwitting victims.

And why not? Almost everyone has a strong inherent desire to help anyone who appears to be in need. The most elementary game theory will identify posing as a traveller in need as a most excellent tactic by which to lure a single unwitting and vulnerable person into a trap--a trap from which the perp can depart rather easily without being immediately pursued.

That one may have stopped to help others many times means absolutely nothing more than the fact that one may have left the doors of the house unlocked all of the time for years without a problem; or that one has picked up any hitch-hiker who ever came along; or that one has "cleared his house" without a problem (so have I, but there was no one there); or that one has never needed a gun; or, and this is my favorite, that one has never had a problem walking in such and such a high crime neighborhood.

So, what do do?

DO NOT BE NAIVE; do not assume that things are what they appear to be; and avoid putting your self at unnecessary risk so you will be proud of your altruism afterward.

On that last point, it might be very good idea to ask from the car what is needed, and to avoid having all of the parties in your car put themselves at risk at once.