Don't talk to the Police

[sendarope]

This is not a "bash police" post. I respect the guys on the street. Though that respect is reserved for those that uphold the oath they took and with the militarization of our law enforcement that category of officers is shrinking. I have known a lot of cops over the years and one of my good friends is a VA state trooper. All the guys I have ever run into have been good guys but their bureaucratic bosses have not been.

http://www.regent.edu/admin/media/schlaw/LawPreview/
The professor is followed by an LEO who backs up his assertion that you should never talk to the police.

Miranda reads" you have the right to remain silent anything you say can and may be used AGAINST you in a court of law"
Though nothing you say can and may be use FOR you.

All it takes is some rogue prosecutor (Duke) to get you good and screwed.

I know what many LEO's may say about this. But fortunately here on THR most of us are the good guys so the criminals will not likely see this.
Besides somebody loaded this on Youtube as well.

 

[Rugerlvr]

Many many posts on this same video.

 

[Art Eatman]

My view is really, really simple: Don't be stupid when you talk to police. Use common sense about what you say and what you don't say. Keep it to a bare bones minimum; even the cops will tell you that, not just your lawyer.

Standing there, mute, could get you arrested for murder. A bare bones story might well result in no charges at all.

Skip the grimy details of, "He said, and I said, and he did this and I did that..." and all that happy horsepoop. You can sell the story to True Crime Magazine at some future time...

"He was there, I was here; he attacked, I defended." After that, it's attorney time.

 

[Biker]

Perfect, Art.

Biker

 

[Treo]

I think it's a great video but I'm amazed that this thread isn't locked yet

 

[divemedic]

Standing there, mute, could get you arrested for murder. A bare bones story might well result in no charges at all.

I disagree. I cannot think of a single thing you could say that would get you out of a murder charge that will not get you out of a murder charge 20 minutes later when your attorney gets there.

On the flip side of that, anything you say CAN do the opposite and get you in hot water. Ever heard of talking your way into a ticket?

 

[ilbob]

Most of the time talking with police about some crime they think you committed is an awful idea. Clamming up and asking for your lawyer is the only thing that makes any sense.

A normal traffic stop - say as little as possible, don't volunteer anything. That does not mean you have to be rude.

 

[Treo]

I can see where shutting up could get you arrested, but I can see more where not shutting up could get you convicted.

If I was involved in a murder investigation the only words you'd get out of me would be " I do not wish to make any statement or answer any questions W/ out my attorney present."

 

[cmidkiff]

Name, rank, and serial number

... from a civilian point of view. I'm always polite and cooperative with LEO's, but I'm sure as heck not volunteering any information. ID, insurance card, CCW permit... they have the right to ask for such things, and I'm happy to oblige. Questions like 'have you been drinking' will get answered... it's appropriate for them to ask, and I don't drink and drive. Questions such as 'do you know how fast you were going', 'why are you in such a hurry' or 'what are you doing out so late' or 'what's in the back of the truck' aren't going to get an answer without representation.

Happily, I have never had any occasion to deal with a LEO asking me questions not related to a traffic stop, but if the occasion were to arise, I would apply the same sort of logic.

 

[ilbob]

they have the right to ask for such things

They have no such right. They have been granted power to demand such things. There is a huge difference between a right and raw government power.

 

[ptmmatssc]

If it were a shooting incident , the only thing a LEO would hear from me would be :

" I feared for my life . I need to talk to my attorney. "

Nothing else .

Any other time , as said by someone else , name ,rank, serial # . You know , license , reg, ins.

 

[Frog48]

Old news.

 

[Pat-inCO]

If you remain totally quiet, YOU are the BG, correct or not. Make the shortest and most concise statement possible, including:
1) I am the victim
2) I feared for my life because he attacked me
3) My name is......etc.
4) I want to consult with my attorney before I say any more.
5) If asked any further questions, repeat number 4.

The LEO then has enough to begin his part AND you have established you are the victim, not the BG.

 

[divemedic]

If you remain totally quiet, YOU are the BG, correct or not.

Standing mute is not an admission of guilt, nor can the fact that you refused to answer be used against you.

There is a reason why they tell you that you have the right to remain silent. I have testified in numerous cases, including several homicides, and I have seen many a defendant go down because he let one little statement slip. I frequently tell people not to say things that I will have to testify to later, and when they ignore me, I get overtime to go to court and testify.

 

[Jim K]

OK, everyone is fond of scenarios, some absurd. But how about this one?

You are walking down the street when a car runs up on the sidewalk, killing and injuring a dozen people. You get the make of car, license number, and a good look at the driver.

The police ask if anyone has any information. You refuse to tell them anything because some "legal expert" on the THR site said to never talk to the police. Now don't you feel all good and superior?

Jim

 

[torpid]

OK, everyone is fond of scenarios, some absurd. But how about this one?

You are walking down the street when a car runs up on the sidewalk, killing and injuring a dozen people. You get the make of car, license number, and a good look at the driver.

The police ask if anyone has any information. You refuse to tell them anything because some "legal expert" on the THR site said to never talk to the police. Now don't you feel all good and superior?

Luckily, this was all just an elaborate test, and the people were robots.
The "police" in this scenario are actually aliens disguised as police, and they are looking for observant humans to abduct for their genetic experiments.

Congratulations, you just avoided an unpleasant extraterrestrial experience.

Whew, thanks THR "experts"!

 

[Biker]

The cop's perception of you and how he writes up his report goes a long way in how the legal issue proceeds after the fact.

BTDT...

Biker

 

[divemedic]

The cop's perception of you and how he writes up his report goes a long way in how the legal issue proceeds after the fact.

In this country the prosecution uses something called evidence. We do not prosecute based on opinion of some beat cop. Any exculpatory evidence that will be brought to light by your statement will still be just as true in 20 minutes after your attorney gets there. Besides, saying that you would rather that your attorney be there before making a statement does not mean that you have to be rude about it.

Or are you trying to say that LEOs are so unprofessional that they don't understand the law?

 

[Biker]

I'm not trying to say anything - I meant exactly exactly what I said.

Was I not clear enough?

Biker

 

[Old Ephraim]

Threads on this topic have always intrigued me, with your consent I'd like to participate for once.

I've been a peace officer for 23 years, two on the road, and 21 with a state investigative agency. I've never tallied, but I've been the lead investigator or supervisor on probably well over 300 shootings, be they homicides (all manners of), suicides, accidents (which are mostly negligence), and officer involved shootings.

While citizen self defence shooting investigations are vastly different from officer involved shooting investigations, at their core they need to be evaulated in the same manner. That is, what was going through the shooters mind immediately before and at the time of the shooting event? A simple "I was afraid for my life, I want a lawyer" does not educate the investigator as to the many, and changing, evaulations that go through your head before a decision to act, or not act, is reached. Scientific analysis of the scene, and witness statements are very important, but your statements are critical. Experienced investigators will know that you will most likely be a 'soup sandwich' after a shooting, and will make allowances for that.

I guess my question is; why limit yourself to a reaction of "I want a lawyer"? You've already exercised options in making the decision to carry for your protection (that I support whole-heartidly), what to carry, ammo, holster, training, playing out many scenerios in your mind, discussing courses of actions with loved one...so why limit yourself after the gun goes bang?

No matter what I investigate all I seek is the truth. I've never received a bonus for clearing, or arresting anyone. The vast majority of investigators I've worked with over the years are this way as well. I would never advise anyone to not exercise their rights, but if you know it's a good shoot, why risk an arrest record?

I'm really hoping to learn something from you guys. If I can answer any questions from you I would be happy to do so.

 

[Thernlund]

-T.

 

[whosyrdaddy]

OK, everyone is fond of scenarios, some absurd. But how about this one?

You are walking down the street when a car runs up on the sidewalk, killing and injuring a dozen people. You get the make of car, license number, and a good look at the driver.

The police ask if anyone has any information. You refuse to tell them anything because some "legal expert" on the THR site said to never talk to the police. Now don't you feel all good and superior?

Jim

Think Richard Jewell​

 

[Thernlund]

Think Richard Jewell

That's right. No good deed goes unpunished. Screw civic duty if I'm going to get crucified for it.


-T.

 

[basicblur]

I guess my question is; why limit yourself to a reaction of "I want a lawyer...so why limit yourself after the gun goes bang?

‘Cuz after watching the lawyer’s video (and the cop on behind him said he couldn’t tell you anything the lawyer said was incorrect), anything you say to a cop (even though it’s hearsay) “can and will be used against you in a court of law”, just like Miranda says.
BUT
Anything you say to the cop that could be used in your defense in a court of law will immediately be challenged by the prosecutor as hearsay and will not be allowed…
Nuttin’ like playing with a stacked deck!

No matter what I investigate all I seek is the truth.

While the cop on the beat may seek the truth, have you ever seen Nancy Grace or Lis Wiehl on TV (both former prosecutors)?
How would you like to have either one of these gals (or someone similar, and they ARE out there) as the prosecutor on your case?
Think all they’re seeking is the truth?
We won’t even mention Mike Nifong…

The vast majority of investigators I've worked with over the years are this way as well.

I think the operative words here are “vast majority”!
Hmmmm…with my luck, iff’n I was involved in something (or someone THOUGHT I was), wonder if I’d be lucky enough to get one of the "vast majority" or…? :banghead:

 

[divemedic]

No matter what I investigate all I seek is the truth. I've never received a bonus for clearing, or arresting anyone. The vast majority of investigators I've worked with over the years are this way as well. I would never advise anyone to not exercise their rights, but if you know it's a good shoot, why risk an arrest record?

That is a rather political answer. As an investigator, you are paid for arrests that result in convictions. You may not get a bonus, but if do not close cases, or you do not make arrests, or your arrests do not result in convictions, I will be willing to bet you won't be an investigator for very long.

Sort of reminds me about traffic tickets. Cops claim that there are no quotas, which is true- there is no set number of tickets they must write. However, every cop that works in a populated area will tell you that your evals depend on ticket writing. Heck, my city even budgets a certain amount of income every year from traffic ticket fines.

Arrest record beats a conviction. Arrest means squat.