Don't worry the PH will bail me out if anything happens...

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H&Hhunter

H&Hhunter

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If I hear that one more time I am going to PUKE!! It always comes up when folks who haven't been there or have done very little dangerous game hunting try and rationalize using a substandard underpowered DG caliber.

NEVER trust another man to bail you out of a dangerous potentially deadly situation in dangerous game country. You need to be able to take care of business all by yourself.

Never go into wild elephant country unless you've got an elephant gun in your hands. This guy is an experienced hunter who got smoked because he allowed himself to be unarmed around wild elephant.

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Tom Siebel On Being Gored By An Elephant
As told to Steven Bertoni, 09.23.10, 10:40 PM EDT
Forbes Magazine dated October 11, 2010



[Copyrighted Material Removed]

Sorry guy here is the link.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/1...l-gored-by-elephant.html?partner=contextstory
 
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Very well written piece...it's like you're almost there.

The Art of Self Reliance goes a long way in life: from hunting, to war, to disaster recovery, to simple things like personal finance.

In the end, it's easy to fault the PH that day...but at least he had a chance to miss. The victim set his destiny in motion that day when he chose his camera over a rifle. Sure he may have missed too, or may have just angered the elephantress...things may have been different. Still hind site is 20/20 and hopefully we can all learn from this encounter.
 
Ever read any of Capstick's books. He talks about elephants making red splotches in the ground. A PO'd elephant will hunt you down and stomp you into a squishy.
 
Sunray said:
A PO'd elephant will hunt you down and stomp you into a squishy.
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I thinkin' that's why they call them dangerous game.....and I thought that was the thrill of hunting them. I have read many accounts of adequately armed, experienced DG hunters being gored/stomped/mauled to death regardless of what they and their PH did. I'm sure some of them even claimed it could/would never happen to them. Play with fire and you could get burned....one of life's realities.
 
Ever read any of Capstick's books.
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Sure I have..

But the thing that made a much longer lasting impression on me is actually having been charged and chased by real life African elephants. Also having hunted cow's in a herd I have utmost respect for them. I consider cow elephant in a herd to be without a doubt the most dangerous animal on the planet to hunt. And the statistics do bear that out.

As far as playing with fire goes, sure hunting elephant is dangerous the point being you need to be carrying adequate equipment for the hunt and you should NEVER count on somebody else to bail you out you need to be able to take care of yourself. Ad of course you can still get hurt. Just like any risky activity there are no guarantees of safety which is what makes it challenging and worthy of doing.

Which is why you don't use a pet toy rifle when you are hunting them thinking that if your rifle doesn't get it done the PH is right there to back you up. Use something that is a no kidding elephant capable in ANY situation.
 
Never go into wild elephant country unless you've got an elephant gun in your hands.
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Preparation is preparation. This reminds me of a comment I read the other day by a hunter who was in Alaska hunting deer. He had his light rifle with him, loaded with light bullets for killing deer, instead of his bear rifle, because he wasn't hunting bears.

Guess what he found? Or what found him ... Bear. Big Alaska brownie. Deer rifle did the job, but ... "when you're in bear country, carry a bear rifle."

Seems to me to be good advice, on both counts. If you're 'loaded for bear' (or elephant), you're pretty much prepared for anything.
 
Yep,

Overkill has always been a mystery to me. Does that mean you are going to kill something too dead?:D
 
Elephants, Bears, People....never , ever a good idea to piss off "Momma", she'll be the first to kill ya dead, and rightously so!!! ~~LOL!!~~
 
It's always best to carry adequate stopping power for the heaviest thing you might encounter. Unfortunately, it's sometimes not a legal option. If you're hunting turkey and you're only allowed to use shot, what are you going to do if a bear shows up? In my state you can carry a sidearm, but I'd take buckshot or a slug over even a .454 Casull any day. And I'd very much like at least one person in the group to have a rifle. But if a game warden catches you with equipment inappropriate to your hunt, you can kiss your tag goodbye.
 
If that jerk with the rifle was supposed to be a PH, I'd definitely think twice before using him again. Wonder why he hesitated so long, think he was going to sucker punch that cow elephant?
 
The individual in the article appears to be a taker of pictures as opposed to a hunter. Is this not what is referred to as a Photo Safari. Under the circumstance the major responsibility for safe conduct lays with the PH.

In our day to day affair’s we place ourselves at risk and are dependent on others to act responsible. Such mundane things as car pooling we expect the driver of the pool vehicle to drive responsibly. If we were to charter a plane would we need to be a qualified pilot in case the charter pilot became incapacitated? A bicyclist using the same roadways as motored vehicles is inherently dangerous.

Every day we assume a certain amount of risk in our mundane lives.
 
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Tom the victim is a safari hunter who decided to take a day off from hunting and do a walking day for some photo ops. They were in a private reserve and that is why he wasn't carrying a rifle with him the day of the accident. The "guide" is also a licensed PH. I am sure that the reason he waited to shoot for so long had something to do with not wanting to have to shoot an elephant inside this exclusive reserve. But what makes me crazy is that he didn't shoot the thing while it was attacking Tom instead he lay in fetal position off to the side with his rifle in his hands.

You hear about people getting swatted by big game inside these non shooting reserves all the time. I don't do DG country without a DG rifle in my hands. Therefore I skip the parks and the non shooting reserves when I'm in Africa.

The point being however. That I see folks on this sight in particular stating that they would use whatever pet caliber de'jour for elephant or buffalo or some kind of nasty critter because they would have a PH backing them up so it didn't matter if it was adequate or not.

Folks might want to rethink that. The PH may or may not be able to help you out.
 
H&Hhunter said:
I am sure that the reason he waited to shoot for so long had something to do with not wanting to have to shoot an elephant inside this exclusive reserve.
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I thought the same thing....that and hoping it was a bluff charge.



H&Hhunter said:
But what makes me crazy is that he didn't shoot the thing while it was attacking Tom instead he lay in fetal position off to the side with his rifle in his hands.
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Didn't the victim claim to hear the wind coming outta the PH's chest as he was swatted? If you've ever had the wind knocked outta you, you know why he was laying in the fetal position and why he couldn't do anything. The PH stood his ground between the victim and the charging elephant and waited to the last instant to shoot. Only thing I see he did wrong was miss......and that would be easy to do in that situation. Whole lotta little things that added up to a bad situation.
 
H&Hhunter said:
Tom the victim is a safari hunter who decided to take a day off from hunting and do a walking day for some photo ops. They were in a private reserve and that is why he wasn't carrying a rifle with him the day of the accident. The "guide" is also a licensed PH. I am sure that the reason he waited to shoot for so long had something to do with not wanting to have to shoot an elephant inside this exclusive reserve. But what makes me crazy is that he didn't shoot the thing while it was attacking Tom instead he lay in fetal position off to the side with his rifle in his hands.

You hear about people getting swatted by big game inside these non shooting reserves all the time. I don't do DG country without a DG rifle in my hands. Therefore I skip the parks and the non shooting reserves when I'm in Africa.

The point being however. That I see folks on this sight in particular stating that they would use whatever pet caliber de'jour for elephant or buffalo or some kind of nasty critter because they would have a PH backing them up so it didn't matter if it was adequate or not.

Folks might want to rethink that. The PH may or may not be able to help you out.
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You must have information in addition to what is in the link, because nothing in that Forbes story indicates that he was hunting on that trip. The linked story indicates that he, his wife, and children had spent days riding around in a Land Rover observing animals. On the day in question his family was tired so he and the guide went on a walk.

Regardless, I don't see how that makes much of a difference. If you want to be close to wild animals, you take your chances.
 
it's very important that we stand our ground because if you turn and run we're going to get hurt because they chase things that run.
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I've heard this about a lot of dangerous large animals. I don't care. I figure there are only two choices when charged by a large wild animal that can seriously hurt me. Either I'm emptying whatever firearm(s) I have at the creature or I am RUNNING. Ideally at a right angle to the charge and into thick trees and bushes.

If I'm armed with only a camera thanks to some idiotic local laws, and there's a guy with a doublegun there. HE can stand his ground. I am leaving! That's just the way it is. In my experience with horned critters, the instinct to run is a sensible one.
 
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You must have information in addition to what is in the link, because nothing in that Forbes story indicates that he was hunting on that trip. The linked story indicates that he, his wife, and children had spent days riding around in a Land Rover observing animals. On the day in question his family was tired so he and the guide went on a walk.
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That’s how I read the story also thus my reply. I beginning to wonder if the story is going to be told in its total finality or more information is going to dribble out. It’s almost like pulling teeth out of chicken.:confused:
 
If anyone knows more about a given situation in DG hunting in Africa it would be H&H. He has as many friends and contacts in the PH world in Africa as he does in normal life over here. Heck I thick he may have even had his PH license at one point. Though I may be remembering that one wrong. I know this though. H&H has been there and done that more times then most of the rest of THR combined. If he says something about hunting, be it in Africa or Colorado, I tend to listen.
 
I could see using a PH as a back up if I was using a bow for the hunt. However, I would have to have a bow set up just for that situation, proper arrow/broadhead weight, also doing enough research to make sure I have the kinetic energy for an ethical kill. Everyone should do their homework.
 
I was wrong on that count.
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Gus,

I am still a hunting guide her in the good old USA. I was registered guide in NM for a long time. I currently do very little professional guiding. Occasionally I still help a buddy out with some industry guys who do hunts on his ranch. I think that you may be getting the PH thing confused with my other side occupation that I did for a while which was as an international safari, hunting and fishing booking agent.

In Africa I am a member of the South African Hunters Association. Which allows me to hunt sans a PH in certain places.

Other than that I am just a guy who loves to hunt and does it purely for the enjoyment of the whole process now days.
 
I could see using a PH as a back up if I was using a bow for the hunt.
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bubba,

If you are hunting dangerous game in Africa except for one or two countries, by law you will be accompanied by a PH. It's not a choice that you get to make.
 
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