Double rifles VS bolts

[SteveW-II]

Offhand, that is a wonderful example.

I have never seen the 'drop locks' out of an action like that and am very impressed at the jewelling detail.

Looking at the action locks, it looks like a Greener cross bolt that locks the dolls head as well as the lower bites. When you operate the spindle does the cross bolt protrude out of the side of the fence ?

PS. Love the 'tear drops' !

 

[Pete D.]

beauty

Offhand:I can only hope. Thanks for sharing. That concept, pride of ownership, is frequently lost in gun discussions where the emphasis is on utility more often than not.
Beautiful piece.
Pete

 

[Robert Wilson]

One other thing to consider is recoil: the more the recoil, the less the difference in speed between the double and the magazine rifle. This is because the competent rifleman is going to run the bolt while the rifle is in recoil. By the time the rifle is back on target, the piece should be close to ready to fire. It's still not as fast as the double, but the gap closes as recoil increases.

If you really want to get a double rifleman's hackles up, ask him how fast his third shot (two isn't always enough!) might be.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

If you really want to get a double rifleman's hackles up, ask him how fast his third shot (two isn't always enough!) might be

And I will bet a months pay the answer you would get from 90% of them would be one of these 2 "If I need more than 2 from this weapon I shouldn't be shooting it" or "You will not have time for more than 2 from this weapon as the animal will already be on you"

 

[Maverick223]

The double is king for reliability (there is two of everything that moves) and speed. Accuracy goes to the bolt action, but the double is more than good enough for what it was built for, which is, in most cases, a "stopping rifle".

Want the best of both worlds?...how about one of Peter Hoffer's bolt action doubles (that's right a double repeating rifle).

One detail that I don't quite understand is why companies have not introduced affordable (or at the very least approachable) double rifles. Perhaps it is lack of demand, but the regulation of the barrels shouldn't be nearly the issue it was in the past. With the prevalence of modern laser bore-sighters I don't understand why more than a few shots would be necessary to fine-tune the regulation. Obviously the craftsmanship would be inferior to the H&H and Purdy rifles, but at least it would make them more accessable to the folks that didn't want to spend $8k+ USD for one.

 

[Offfhand]

Post from above;

"If you really want to get a double rifleman's hackles up, ask him how fast his third shot (two isn't always enough!) might be."

Doesn't get my hackles up at all because anyone who has actually watched an experienced shooter reload his double may have second thoughts. (There are actual speed comparisions, by the way, at doubles competitions. Go to one and take your high caliber bolt rifle.) And don't forget, the double is reloaded with TWO shells. So ask how fast the FOURTH shot is.

 

[Art Eatman]

In the FWIW department, I watched H&H put two .470 Rigby bullets maybe two inches apart at around 15 or so yards. Sounded darned near like one shot. Very high-speed "double-tap".

I've watched shot-gunners with double-guns reload, having held two shells in the off hand. Really quickly. Looked to be about as fast as cycling a high-recoil bolt-gun.

 

[bonza]

PeteD, Yes I doubt that you'd find that caliber listed, it's apparently a proprietary round. The maker of the rifle, Carl Gruendig of Dresden, was known for his experimenting with cartridges based on the 11mm Mauser parent case. The cases have the Mauser 'A' base, & mine came from BELL back in the 1980s (.43 Mauser basic), it is a straight-walled case. I know of one other rifle chambered for this round, & it is a very similar double also by Gruendig, & it is in New Zealand.
This photo shows an empty 12.3x62mmR case along with a bullet, a loaded round, & a .45/70 Gov't. for comparison:

This shows the Mauser 'A' base configuration:

 

[Pete D.]

Bonza: Thanks.

 

[BrocLuno]

Something that has been largely overlooked in this discussion are the simple pleasures of owning double rifles. As with any other form of art or high craftsmanship, one never tires of enjoying the exquisite workmanship of a finely made firearm, and no other venue of gunmaking excels that devoted to making premier grade double rifles. Attaching some photos of one of my rifles: a Westley Richards "drop-lock"which encompasses the quality features one might expect in a "best" British double. "Drop lock" referring to the easily detachable firing mechanisms, which are themselves works of art. As are the folding "express" sights, fitted case, etc. Hope you enjoy.

Way above my pay grade, but oh so lovely. You are right about pride of ownership

AND, that is an investment that will not diminish unless destroyed in a fire or something. For those that can afford such, it is probably a better hedge on inflation than almost any other arm?

 

[SteveW-II]

> For those that can afford such, it is probably a better hedge on inflation than almost any other arm?

I agree. Am considering cashing out my 401k and buying into Rigby and H&H. Even if I don't get a 'better' ROI, just the pleasure of ownership will be enough. Given the performance of my 401k, a better ROI isn't too hard..

 

[dirtyjim]

If you really want to get a double rifleman's hackles up, ask him how fast his third shot (two isn't always enough!) might be

\
most of the double guys i know would be happy to show you how fast their 3rd & 4th shots are.
at our bigbore shoots we shooot 4 rounds at 6" shoot-n-see targets 25 yards away for speed & accuracy and those of use with bolt guns (or bolt trash as the double guys say)aren't waitin around at the end for the double guys to finish. we all finish within a couple seconds of each other.
we have some exceptionally fast bolt guys and double guys in the bunch

 

[GunTech]

No one mentioned that Pedersoli also offers an 'affordable' double rifle as well.

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/?item=ArmiCategoriaDettaglio&CategoriaId=280&lang=en

The Kodiak was also once sold by Navy Arms at a very affordable price.

It should be noted that the action on a double rifle is much weaker than a turn bolt, which is why the largest calibers are invariably long for their size compared to bolt calibers. A higher volume case means less pressure for the same velocity.

Finally, regulation is very specific to the temperature, altitude and humidity where the rifle will be used. London gunsmiths at the height of the empire were very adept at regulating guns in England for use in Africa and India. In London, the barrels might shoot to quite different points of aim, while they would be right on in Africa.

And these guns are regulated to a very specific bullet and load. Owners of these old doubles often spend a lot of time testing loads to get them to regulate, since it's not practical to reregulate the barrels.

There are still good deals to be had, particularly in some of the oddball calibers. 'Good deal' meaning $3000-4000 for a quality used English double gun in something like 475 No. 2 3 1/2 inch

 

[Maverick223]

No one mentioned that Pedersoli also offers an 'affordable' double rifle as well.

The only problems that I have with such rifles is the lack of "good" chamberings. I would want a NE in a double (in .40cal or greater). It is, however, a fairly nice rifle and somewhat affordable (at the very least approachable).