Down the reloading rabbit hole

[N555]

Your getting hung up on Chamber differences not the cartridge that fits into the chamber. There are a bunch of different chambers used in 223R. But all will take the same spec brass with the only differences is what's required for OAL due to bullet length and shape.

Chambers are different. The specs on the brass (outer dimensions) is almost identical and are interchangeability by all practical purposes. The load you work up is based on the components you chose for your gun. A different gun may require a different setup even the same model of the assembly line right next to each other.

5.56 spec are at a higher pressure than 223R. ~ 55k vs ~62k they can be loaded in any marking on the brass. So a 223R could have 5.56 specs (pressure). Loading higher increases wear and tear on your gun. Brass life is shortened. With gas operated guns you have to control the pressure at the gas port on the barrel. This is what drives the BCG (bolt) rearward. If running at the right pressure the brass will eject in the 3:00 to 5:00 direction. Too fast and it bounces off the deflector knocking it forward. Also will stretch the brass more causing case head separation. There are may ways to control this, heavier bolts, adj gas blocks are just a few ways to do it.

Yeah I use a 11oz rifle buffer to slow mine down and ejectes brass at about the 4 o'clock position.

 

[mofosheee]

Your getting hung up on Chamber differences not the cartridge that fits into the chamber. There are a bunch of different chambers used in 223R. But all will take the same spec brass with the only differences is what's required for OAL due to bullet length and shape.
Chambers are different. The specs on the brass (outer dimensions) is almost identical and are interchangeability by all practical purposes. The load you work up is based on the components you chose for your gun. A different gun may require a different setup even the same model of the assembly line right next to each other.

It's the nature of the beast that a machinist will fixate on details. I'm the first to admit that I don't know what I don't know. I was expecting less variance and more standardization when it came to chambers. All good information. Thank you.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

It's the nature of the beast that a machinist will fixate on details. I'm the first to admit that I don't know what I don't know. I was expecting less variance and more standardization when it came to chambers. All good information. Thank you.

Chambers are final cut with reamers. Reamers are precision cut to shape. As a machinist you know what happens when a precision ground cutter gets dull; and more important, what happens when it gets sharpened.
That’s why there’s so much variation between chambers, even from the same factory. It’s variations in the magnitude of half thousandths but in a 60-degree angle cut half a thousandth is a country mile.

 

[mofosheee]

Chambers are final cut with reamers. Reamers are precision cut to shape. As a machinist you know what happens when a precision ground cutter gets dull; and more important, what happens when it gets sharpened.
That’s why there’s so much variation between chambers, even from the same factory. It’s variations in the magnitude of half thousandths but in a 60-degree angle cut half a thousandth is a country mile.

Forever chasing that 0.0005"

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Forever chasing that 0.0005"

The F-15 STOL program was a decade long exercise in chasing half thousandths and single digits on HRC. It is not the only one I worked on but does have the most memories. Mostly nightmares in cutting titanium hinged staples.

 

[mofosheee]

The F-15 STOL program was a decade long exercise in chasing half thousandths and single digits on HRC. It is not the only one I worked on but does have the most memories. Mostly nightmares in cutting titanium hinged staple

Not sure. Titanium hinged staples component...........for thrust vectoring?

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I don’t know what they were used for. I just know we had to make hundreds and they were a pain.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I have to wonder if the manufacturing tolerances of the plain box, low-$ rifle ammo are close enough for any kind of consistency, lot to lot. If so, sorting by head stamp is just one step.

 

[mofosheee]

Yeah, similar to a friend of mine who worked in a SoCal factory where they were partitioned off from other workers. Nobody knew what they other was doing

 

[mofosheee]

I have to wonder if the manufacturing tolerances of the plain box, low-$ rifle ammo are close enough for any kind of consistency, lot to lot. If so, sorting by head stamp is just one step.

Agree and good point. Then we get into full length, small base dies, neck dies, work hardening and annealing.
Then we have the guys who prefer not to use military ammo. And just a guess, the reason is of the hit and miss success of repriming military compared to civilian.

 

[EricBu]

This has been beat to death over the years. I'm new to reloading rifle and suffering from information overload. Reading and talking with people ad nauseam opens up more questions.
Looking for a "one stop shop" reloading manual recommendation please. I have one 20" AR is chambered in 5.56 and the other, a JP Wylde .223 rifle.

I have both .223 Remmington and military 5.56 brass range brass and about 1K rounds of .224 unloaded bullets.
Do people reload military brass? One person I know states that he scrapps military.
Will a 5.56 die "force" .223 brass into 5.56" dimension?
Would resized range brass be suitable to reload in .224?

The Hornady bullet comparator and OAL gauge tool looks essential. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pLfyWJrc9A

Any and all advice appreciated. Thank you!

Any reloading book will get you where you need to be.....you can skip the fancy stuff like the comparator....until you get the basics down. But if you are looking specifically for loading tips for the AR platform, the Lyman AR 15 loading manual is pretty hard to beat, it answers all your questions, and several you haven't yet thought to ask.

https://www.lymanproducts.com/ar-reloading-handbook-2nd-edition

 

[mofosheee]

Some unknown hero left me this link, it was of great help; https://bulletin.accurateshooter.co...length-dies-neck-sizing-dies-small-base-dies/
Would someone tell me what this die set is for?

 

[Blue68f100]

For a 224 Valkyrie. This is one of the newer calibers that came out withing the last 10 yrs. It's a AR option for pushing 224" bullets faster than a std 223R or 5.56. Works very well with the 80-90 gr bullets. You normally get 200 fps more than a 223R puts out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.224_Valkyrie

 

[mofosheee]

Your links ties it together. The person who sold it to me was uninformed.
Thank you

 

[Nature Boy]

5.56 Military ammo has a crimped primer pocket that needs to be removed prior to seating a primers.

Some commercial .223 will also have crimped pockets.

If you’re going to make .223 it’s almost necessary to have a way to remove crimps in order to get your money’s worth out of the process.

I’m a fan of the Dillon super swager

 

[KYregular]

This has been beat to death over the years. I'm new to reloading rifle and suffering from information overload. Reading and talking with people ad nauseam opens up more questions.
Looking for a "one stop shop" reloading manual recommendation please. I have one 20" AR is chambered in 5.56 and the other, a JP Wylde .223 rifle.

I have both .223 Remmington and military 5.56 brass range brass and about 1K rounds of .224 unloaded bullets.
Do people reload military brass? One person I know states that he scrapps military.
Will a 5.56 die "force" .223 brass into 5.56" dimension?
Would resized range brass be suitable to reload in .224?

The Hornady bullet comparator and OAL gauge tool looks essential. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pLfyWJrc9A

Any and all advice appreciated. Thank you!

Nothing wrong with military brass, especially LC, you will have to cut the crimp out of the primer pockets however. LC is what I load my hotter PD rounds with. Keep in mind, if you are going to be using your loads in more than one rifle you need to find a "happy medium" on headspace to accomodate all.

 

[mofosheee]

I'm a gonna roll the dice and get one. Thanks for the product recommendation

 

[Necessary_Nutrient]

I didn't see much mention of Swaging the primer pocket. Military 5.56 like Lake City and IMI- both of which I've used- requires an extra preparation step of swaging or cutting out the crimp in the primer pocket so that you can reprime the case and once it's done you don't have to worry about it again. I use an RCBS primer pocket Swaging die with my single stage press.

Buy Primer Pocket Swager Combo-2 and More | RCBS

Shopping for the Primer Pocket Swager Combo-2 - Learn more about the latest Accessories and other hunting or shooting gear at RCBS.

www.rcbs.com

 

[mofosheee]

I didn't see much mention of Swaging the primer pocket. Military 5.56 like Lake City and IMI- both of which I've used- requires an extra preparation step of swaging or cutting out the crimp in the primer pocket so that you can reprime the case and once it's done you don't have to worry about it again. I use an RCBS primer pocket Swaging die with my single stage press.

Buy Primer Pocket Swager Combo-2 and More | RCBS

Shopping for the Primer Pocket Swager Combo-2 - Learn more about the latest Accessories and other hunting or shooting gear at RCBS.

www.rcbs.com

Still haven't bought a tool yet. I'm liking it more that the dillon 600. Takes up less space on the bence. Thanks!

 

[DMW1116]

I have used both swaging and cutting for removing the crimps. I use the RCBS cutter and the Lee Ram Swage. The cutter does a better job. I’ve never had to re-trim a pocket after using the cutter. The swager works about 95% of the time. Certain brands of brass need a little more than others so I’ll have to trim the pocket with my case neck deburring tool every so often.

The Ram Swage is MUCH faster even with the occasional miss. It also doesn’t leave a pile of little brass shavings to clean up, so it is my preferred method. I used it in 7.62 NATO cases and it was 100% there. They were all the same head stamp though. I may have used it in some crimped 9mm cases too. I run across those every 100 or so cases.

 

[mofosheee]

I have used both swaging and cutting for removing the crimps. I use the RCBS cutter and the Lee Ram Swage. The cutter does a better job. I’ve never had to re-trim a pocket after using the cutter. The swager works about 95% of the time. Certain brands of brass need a little more than others so I’ll have to trim the pocket with my case neck deburring tool every so often.

The Ram Swage is MUCH faster even with the occasional miss. It also doesn’t leave a pile of little brass shavings to clean up, so it is my preferred method. I used it in 7.62 NATO cases and it was 100% there. They were all the same head stamp though. I may have used it in some crimped 9mm cases too. I run across those every 100 or so cases.

Received the swager..........cycled a few cases. Didn't see in the instructions if lube was recommended.

 

[DMW1116]

It didn’t say that I remember. I haven’t used any but some sort of case lube might be a good idea. I have a pile of brass to decrimp and might try some on the mandrel.

 

[Blue68f100]

Received the swager..........cycled a few cases. Didn't see in the instructions if lube was recommended.

I normally use a little Imperial Sizing Wax on the punch to keep it from sticking. Squeaky clean brass wants to gual so this helps, just reapply every so often.

 

[AJC1]

I use the rcbs crimp removers, because not only are they the cheapest option, they are the fastest. I do mount the bit in my drill press and I can process them as fast as I can move them. The additional benifit is cases like s and b 38 cases prime so much easier after being run and they have no crimp. Best value tool in reloading. Brass chips on my drill press just isn't a problem for me....

 

[DMW1116]

Thanks a lot everyone. I'm considering going back to my RCBS crimp cutter now. I have a batch of twice-fired 223 cases I want to use as practice rounds. There are about 300, though I haven't counted them yet. If I take the time to cut the crimps out of the primer pockets, that will eliminate the need to worry about for however many realoadings I get out of these cases. The practice load uses the minimum charge of Shooters World Tactical Rifle that will run both my mid-length and rifle-length uppers and is only pushing a 55-grain FMJ to about 2500 fps. These should last a long time. I have another batch of full power target loads I'll run with the Lee Ram Swage and see how they do. This is a full power load with a 52-grain Barnes Match Burner to about 2950 fps in my 20" rifle. The idea of cutting away material from a full power load bothers me.