Dragonuv feed 7.62x54R properly?

[dukefan70]

I have no experience with Dragunovs whatsoever, but I do with Mosins and I'm just curious. Anybody who has tried stripper clips with a Mosin can tell you rimlock is a problem. Rather than fool around with stripper clips, its actually quicker to just hand load 5 rounds and make sure you won't get rimlock by stacking the rounds with the rims one in front of the other. So is it the same with a Dragunov mag where the rounds have to be loaded carefully or what?

 

[firesky101]

I don't have a dragunov, but I do have an SVT-40 and several mosins. I have quality stripper clips, and as long as you load them properly have never had an issue with rimlock in either platform. Those cheap stripper clips that look like they are made from galvanized are junk, and not worth your time. Try to find some blued soviet ones.

 

[mortablunt]

Repeat after me: "There is no such thing as a Dragunov on the American Civilian Gun Market."
Now that's settled, I'd like to introduce you to the idea that you have to properly load your clips and stack the cartridges properly. This vid contains a part on how to avoid rims locking at about 7:00.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dslNYt050I

 

[murdoc rose]

fires right on the money if the stripper clip is loaded right you will not have any problems.

 

[TurtlePhish]

Anybody who has tried stripper clips with a Mosin can tell you rimlock is a problem.

Nope, actually. The interrupter-ejector takes care of that. I can load the rounds in such a way as to guarantee rimlock in any other rifle, but the Mosin doesn't skip a beat.

I'd assume the SVD platform has a similar mechanism in place. Either that or the loading method for the magazines makes it impossible to get the rim of the top cartridge under the rim of the cartridge underneath.

 

[Grunt]

Quote:
Anybody who has tried stripper clips with a Mosin can tell you rimlock is a problem.

Nope, actually. The interrupter-ejector takes care of that. I can load the rounds in such a way as to guarantee rimlock in any other rifle, but the Mosin doesn't skip a beat.

I'd assume the SVD platform has a similar mechanism in place. Either that or the loading method for the magazines makes it impossible to get the rim of the top cartridge under the rim of the cartridge underneath.

This!! No, if you are getting rimlock issues with a Mosin-Nagant, your interrupter isn't functioning correctly. Take your rifle apart, clean off the cosmo and make sure this part is working correctly. As far as the SVD is concerned, mine is a .308 version (NDM-86) so that's not an issue. However, the captured SVDs I have used have no facility to load with stripper clips in the first place and I have yet to find even a Muj that was dense enough to load the magazines with the top rim behind the lower rim. Non-issue.

 

[caribou]

Yep , rimlock in a Mosin is a broken Mosin interupter. A Mosin with a functional Interupter will never rimlock, its not mechanicly possible.....

"But" a Dragonovs, teh magizine is not loaded with strippers, but a Tokarev will jam up if you dont load them slow and with the cartridges being pushed down and back while being loaded.
Neither the Tokarev or Dragonov's magizines have no devices to lift the cartridge to be fed above the rim of the round below, as the intterupter does, so proper stacking is a must.

 

[WardenWolf]

I don't have a proper SVD, but I do have a PSL. The same principles apply. You can't load with stripper clips, and, as a result, it's nearly impossible to get the rims in the wrong order unless you try. Think about it. You're loading one round at a time into the magazine. Inherently the rims are going to go into the right order unless you attempt to load it some really oddball way. A normal person loads it by pushing it in from the top, with it rolling under the feed lips and sliding to the back of the magazine (or, in this case, the rim of the cartridge below it). Only if you REALLY mess up will you create a rim lock scenario, and you'll know it the second you do, long before it gets into the rifle.

 

[Mizar]

If you take a closer look to a SVD magazine you will notice that it is canted to the back - to accommodate proper rim placement. When you are loading it, when the cartridge slips under the feed lips, it goes further to the back thus not allowing the next loaded cartridge to rimlock. Like WardenWolf already pointed out - if you are not paying attention you can get a rimlock, but you have to try hard for it to happen. One can jam almost any magazine while loading it, you don't need rimmed cartridges to do it - just not paying attention to what you are doing.

Boris

 

[Ash]

I own both the SVD (NDM-86) and PSL, plus some nice Mosins. There is generally no problem with rim-lock in the PSL or SVD unless the magazine is somehow defective. Still, the magazines are designed to load properly, by placing the rim cut-out forward from the rear so that you press the rim in first about 1/3 from the rear and then push the round to the rear (just like how you should be loading 22's or 30-30 or 410 magazines in bolt-actions).

As an addendum to the discussion, I consider the PSL to be the combat equal to the SVD. In ways, the SVD is better, but in ways, the PSL is better. The SVD has a better trigger, but a proper PSL trigger is a nice 2-stage as well (mine came with a superb 2-stage right out of the box). The PSL has a simpler gas-system that is easier to maintain in the field but limits loads used (which is actually fine as no nation which issues arms which fire the 7.62x54r currently uses heavy ball). The SVD has an adjustable gas system that allows flexibility with various ammo qualities.

The SVD is more accurate, but the PSL holds its own just fine. It might lose in a target-shooting contest, but it'll take out human targets just as well as the SVD. Optics are identical. The SVD is theoretically more rugged with its milled receiver, but the receiver is really not that beefy. I imagine neither rifle's receiver will wear out before the barrel does. Far too many PSL's from the 1970's are still in use in Africa and the Middle East for durability to be a real problem.

Were I to be going into combat and were told I had to carry a PSL over an SVD, I'd be fine with it. On the flip-side, I'd be just happy to carry an SVD.

Before anyone says they are not real snipers, but DMR's, consider that they were fielded by nations which had sustained sniper schools far longer than the US, and fielded vastly more snipers in WWII than we have fielded in our entire history. They call them sniper rifles, and since they wrote the book on sniper tactics and have employed them in greater numbers, they get to call them that. Perhaps you might call them tactical snipers.

In our case, they may not fit the Marine 2-man sniper team, which is more a strategic sniper mission, but they do the job just fine.

 

[WardenWolf]

Ash, I envy you. I want a genuine SVD (either Russian or Chinese) but they're so expensive. I actually prefer the NDM-86 simply because pretty much all .308 ammo you can find is non-corrosive, and after experience with my PSL I have sworn off shooting corrosive ammo in any gas-operated rifle. I found I lost more on patch and solvent costs than I ever saved, and cleaning it took far too long.

 

[caribou]

Wolf, try pouring boiling water over your piston, bolt and down the barrel while scrubbing. Dissolves the salts that attract the water, and drys itself asap...... and pretty low cost. I do that with my Tokarev and Mosins, never have rust problems either, with that one step to start off a routine cleaning.

 

[WardenWolf]

I don't quite have the coordination pull that off without probably burning myself. The problem is that the powder in the gas system very thoroughly attaches itself to the piston and gas tube walls, and the gas tube is irregularly shaped. It is not exactly easy to clean, and while hot water may get some of it, you'll never get all of it without using a wire brush and solvent. Otherwise you're just scratching the surface and there will still be salts mixed in there that will cause it to rust. It's not like a Mosin where you can just boresnake it and you're done. One time I thought I got it all, and later pulled out my bolt carrier and found some green on the piston. After spending an hour cleaning the gas system to get it spotless a few times, I've decided never again. I'll save that stuff for my Mosin. Part of what makes it difficult is that you have to worry about the gun's nice wood furniture, as well as water getting between the handguard and gas tube and causing rust. It just requires a bit more care than a Mosin.

I haven't shot any of my corrosive ammo in the Tokarev, though I do have a spam can's worth of good Romanian ammo. It would be pretty easy to clean, since the Browning action's delayed blowback ensures all the gas goes down the barrel. Just the barrel, slide, and bushing would need to be cleaned.

 

[Mizar]

WardenWolf, for cleaning corrosive ammo residue you only need hot (not boiling) water and a bar of soap. Water is the best cleaning agent for corrosive ammo. You don't need excessive amounts of water - just use it like a commercial solvent. Or you can soak the parts in diesel fuel - it cuts powder residue very well and it's cheap. You can borrow some cleaning tips from the black-powder section of this forum - like moose milk for example - Ballistol mixed with water. With that you don't have to worry about rust or wooden parts damage.

Boris

 

[caribou]

The Tokarev Im referring to is an SVT-40, my mistake on that one, and it dissassembles well enough, and the flowing water carrys away the salts it dissolves.
As well, the PSL and Dragonov's barrels can be plugged and boiling water poured in and allowed to drain by flowing out the gas tube. Works on my AK's too, but I havent shot corrosive through them in years, but boiling water never hurt 'em.

Dragonov's, SVT's, PSL's and most AK's get a stedy diet of corrosivly primed ammo and still clean up great.Sometimes it is best to just shoot non corrosive, and avoid ny hassles that may develop.

 

[Ash]

Window cleaner works well, too. While its the water that actually removes the salts in the solution, it is still a good cleaner and is convenient for the range. You can then do the water funnel method at home.

An SVT-40's action, though, is a pain to clean because of its relative complexity. I have owned them in the past and tried never to shoot corrosive out of them because of that. Many of them came to the US with corroded pistons and gas ports (not unlike the well-used Yugo SKS's).

By the way, I bought that NDM86 about two years ago for a staggering $1,200. I actually paid more for the Czech VZ54/91 below it.

 

[WardenWolf]

By the way, I bought that NDM86 about two years ago for a staggering $1,200. I actually paid more for the Czech VZ54/91 below it.

I hate you! Where on earth did you find it for that price? Everywhere I see they go from $2500 to $4000 (used to be $2500 for the Chinese, $4000 for the Russians, but now they're all up there).

 

[Ash]

It was at a gun show. The dealer had some price, I offered $1,200, and he took it. I almost ran out of the show in case he changed his mind.