Dragunov rifle a quality long range tool?

[leadcounsel]

I know that they have legendary accuracy at long distances and it uses the plentiful and cheap 7.62x54R (and having several Mosins, I like this caliber).

I'm looking at spending some of my deployment money on some fun weapons when I get back. I'm contemplating the Dragunov or clones of the Dragunov. We have a few captured ones that I've handled and I like the ergonomics.

I've seen them advertised in the $700-900 range with scope and magazines.

What are your personal experiences and recommendations? Are the scopes any good?

 

[Ash]

Okay, before anyone chimes in, I'll say it. There is only one real Russian SVD Dragunov, and those are very expensive - too much cost to be shooters. There are Chinese clones in 308 or original 7.62x54r. The original SVD chambering ones are worth about twice what the 308 versions are. Then there are the Tigr's, which are commercial rifles based on the SVD design. Some guys try to dress them up to look like SVD's, but they are not an SVD, not really. They are commercial hunting rifles in 7.62x54r. Even so, they are very close. The barrel, stock, muzzle attachment and sights are different on the Tigr. Some guys change them out for SVD parts, and there are even dressed up Tigrs imported by or called California Armory models, but they still have different barrels and gas systems, and are marked differently than Tigrs.

Then there are the Yugoslav M76's and Romanian PSL's (often called FPK or Romak-3'). The PSL is often mistakenly called a Dragunov because of the style of butt stock. There are some who see this as a great conspiracy to defraud, but the truth is, most of it is out of ignorance.

There is tremendous scorn heaped onto the PSL by Drag owners (though oddly enough, there is none heaped on the Yugo). Both the Yugo and PSL are the same nominal design, both being based on the AK action. The m76 uses a milled receiver whereas the PSL uses a stamped 1.6mm receiver. However, as in all stamped AK's, the bolt locks up into the milled trunion. They both fulfill the exact same role as the Dragunov and combat accuracy is the same.

None of them are true long-range rifles. That is best reserved for bolt guns (though for the price of a 7.62x54r Chinese drag, you can get a super accurate M1a). But for the price of the current Romanian PSL's on the market, you can get a great Designated Marksman Rifle, which is what all of these rifles, whether Chinese, Russian, Yugoslav, or Romanian, in reality are.

The Romanian optics, incidentally, are made by IOR Valdada. That would be akin to having military scopes made by Zeiss or Kahles.

They are great rifles and fill their role as well as the SVD (yeah, they really do). They are not Dragunovs (though legally in the US, the FPK Dragunov designation by Tennessee Guns means that for the purpose of bound-book recording, those rifles ARE to be called a Dragunov).

They are fun for longer range stuff, but don't expect tight groups. With good ammo, though, they are certainly "hunting accurate".

Ash

 

[stubbicatt]

The PSL is offered at the prices you indicated. The SVD is not. I have owned them both and shot them both. They are fun and sexy and all that, true enough. But accuracy seems to be only average. A well sorted M1a might hold you in better stead if accuracy is your goal.

Even then, there are bolt actioned rifles you can buy which will shoot much better.

In all I'd say either of the SVD or PSL are worth about $700 when you take any artificial price supports away from the SVD (such as there are no more being imported).

 

[Trumpet]

Is it a quality long range rifle?

No.

 

[wally]

I love the Romanian scopes, wish they made them for US ring mounts.

--wally.

 

[Tomac]

The Dragunov (like the PSL/Romak-3/SSG-97, etc) was designed for the Designated Marksman's role, not what we in the West consider true "sniping". With that being said, the full accuracy potential of these rifles will never be realized until someone comes out w/a true lightweight (appx 150gr) match load for the 7.62x54 (7N1/7N14, while more accurate than std 7.62x54 ball, doesn't qualify). Enter the .308 NDM-86 Dragunov:
Only 1,000 were imported in the late '80's and w/168gr match ammo they're far more accurate than a 20yr-old copy of a 40yr-old chromed-bored, semi-auto design should be. My personal best 3-shot ctc group at 100yds is .24", my best 4-shot at 100yds is .44", my best 3-shot at 500m is 4.5" and last year I rapid-fired 20rds at a std silhouette at 1,000yds w/no more than 4 seconds between shots (except when changing the mag) and achieved a 50% hit rate (would have been higher except for a slight wind moving most of the misses slightly off target to the left). Inexperienced shooters who ask to shoot it have no trouble hitting bowling pins at 500m if they're careful. I have to wonder what a trained shooter w/decent glass could accomplish...
If you want authenticity get 7.62x54, if you want accuracy get .308.
Tomac
In original laminate furniture w/4x scope:

In modern Russian SVD black polymer furniture w/8x scope:

The 1,000yds silhouette mentioned earlier:

 

[Cannonball888]

I rapid-fired 20rds at a std silhouette at 1,000yds w/no more than 4 seconds between shots

Nice gun. However I wouldn't call 4 seconds between shots rapid-fire. Still good hits for slow-fire.

 

[slzy]

if you had a dragunov,and had to order parts you would order draunov parts. if you had a psl you would order parts for it. nothing but the cartridge interchanges.

 

[Tomac]

Nice gun. However I wouldn't call 4 seconds between shots rapid-fire. Still good hits for slow-fire.

Thx! However, please note that I said "*no more* than 4 seconds between shots", not "4 seconds between shots". Many shots were appx 3 seconds and several were appx 2 seconds. What would you consider "rapid fire" for 50% hits at 1,000yds? When braced forward properly against the SVD's bipod, recovery from recoil settles you right back into the same "pocket" you were in when you made the shot, thus allowing for rapid follow-up shots.
Tomac

 

[saltydog]

The only difference between a dressed out Russian Tigr and a Russian SVD is the barrel length and the markings. All parts will interchange between the two. Most people buy the Russian Tigr for this reason. The adjustable gas system is the hardest part to find for the conversion. If you can live without the longer barrel then be glad you have one

BTW the SVDS has the the shorter barrel and a folding stock. Go figure.

 

[Ash]

One spends a mint to dress out a Tigr, including replacing front and rear sights, gas system, and butt stock. The legality of it is even in question, as dressing one out may be taking it from the realm of "sporting purposes" (real deal Drags cannot be imported). Sec 922r comes into play. It isn't discussed much, but it is an issue that has not been resolved. Remember, the ATF now considers thumb-hole stocks to be pistol grips and while Tigrs have thumbholes already, what is the ATF's position on real Dragunov stocks? What about SVDS stocks? While changing out sights and the gas system would not be out of the sporting realm, a bayonet lug and flash hider most certainly are. And even after dressing it up, you still have a Tigr, the value will never be that of an SVD. It won't matter to rounds fired down range, but the investment into dressing up a Tigr may not be returned if it is sold.

Ash

 

[rangerruck]

I personally like the drags, but I really like the easy usability of the scopes, plus they are double tough.

 

[skinewmexico]

Oneof the editors of Shotgun News spent a ton of money on one, trying to get "decent" accuracy. Custom barrel, trigger, etc. The results were nothing to brag about. May not have been a true SVD, may have been a clone. A lot of work for a 2 moa rifle.

 

[saltydog]

Dressing out a Dragunov Tigr is completely legal per ATF findings:

This link was taken from Chris's website at Dragunov.net:

http://www.dragunov.net/docs/Redacted%20BATFE%20Letter%20re%20Tiger.pdf



The Tigr may never be worth more than her sister but then again some of us are content with 2nd place

I personally believe the price of the Russian Tigr's will surprise most people in a couple more years. I never thought an SVD would be worth 10,000 bucks.

 

[Ash]

Which of course, is only as good as the next letter. It is odd that the SVD is perfectly legal to import, yet cannot possibly be imported from either China or Russia at the present.

Ash

 

[saltydog]

Yea, I agree. The whole thing is just stupid. Unfortunatley it has something to do with a Russian trade agreement. I have a fully dressed unfired Tigr but I still love my M1A and is my first choice in a battle rifle.

 

[kingjoey]

The Dragunov was designed as an extended range rifle, not for precision shooting. They are capable of first-shot body hits at 600yds, but not a guaranteed headshot at that range. They fill the same role that its predecessor the SVT-40 did, providing longer range fire and more power in a semi-automatic platform. They are more intended for 'harassing' fire at ranges beyond what an AK or SKS is capable of firing semi-accurately

 

[justin 561]

side by side with american rifles of its time of birth, it would fire a practical 30 rds per minute while other sniper rifles fired 5-6 rpm.

 

[Neckshot5seven]

Norinco is nice, expensive though. The Romak3 is what you would get for 7 to 9hundred. It shoots just as good as the others, there are just more of them imported to the US that is why they are cheaper. They are of slight less quality of finish compaired to Russian or Norinco, but shoot just as well. The optics are all built in Russia at Belarus so you still get same scope quality. just remimber to re mark up-down and left-right on the adjusting knobs of the scope. I had a really hard time making adjustments on the fly with mine. I ended up milling off the marks and re scribing them with a exacto knife in letters that made sense to me

 

[Neckshot5seven]

There is nothing harassing about a 191grain bullet zipping past you at 600 yards and it is still supersonic until around 1000. Most rifles shooting the N71 ammo is Minute of Angle if shooter does his part

 

[jrfoxx]

It is odd that the SVD is perfectly legal to import, yet cannot possibly be imported from either China or Russia at the present.

It's not odd, it's just the gubbmint.

 

[Grantman]

I'm from NZ and am privileged to be able to purchase full length 620mm barrel dragunov tigrs that are pulled off the same production line as the dragunov svd minus the slip-on flash hider and adjustable gas system. It's unfortunate that you guys in the US can't import these weapons because when the dragunov bug bites, it consumes you. That's what happened to me, but I was able to resolve the problem by buying one of my own. Here in NZ tigrs are nearly all synthetic stock, svd front sight post minus flash hider, and full length 620mm barrel tigrs direct from Izhmash. These tigrs are svd's without the 10 round mag, muzzle flash hider, and adjustable gas system. In other words there is no difference mechanically (apart from the gas system).

Even though I haven’t owned my dragunov long enough to really test it, I have still managed a sub moa 3 shot group with 203 grain Barnaul at 100 meters (109 yards). These bullets couldn't be further from what the dragunov was designed to shoot.




Here are some pictures taken through my belomo pso 8x42d. The first picture shows a tree at approx 130 meters. The second shows a fence at 200+ meters.









*Edit - you can see why they put muzzle flash hiders on these

 

[Tomac]

That is a gorgeous rifle and you are so very, very lucky! (Drools w/envy...):banghead:
Tomac

 

[MatthewVanitas]

I'm going to ask a dumb question: if Tigrs are eligible for import under 922(r) and Drags are not, but trade agreements with Russia are the reason why Russia can't send up Tigrs, is there any legal method by which such rifles could be sent to another country (Bulgaria, Czech Republic, wherever) and then sent on to the US?

Or possibly some method where the Czechs or whoever could buy Tigr parts kits, put them onto a Czech-made receiver, and export them to the US as Czech-made "sporting rifles" in compliance with 922(r)?

Not asking if there's a sneaky illegal way to do it, just asking if it's a legally doable business opportunity that either isn't profitable at current prices, or just hasn't been explored yet.

 

[dfariswheel]

Shipping through a second country is illegal.

A reverse version of this is, it's illegal to ship US made military equipment to say, Cuba.
Some criminal types try to buy the parts through some country it's legal to ship to, then trans-ship to Cuba...... Totally illegal, and the US watches for scams like this.

Same thing holds for items made in countries it's illegal to import into the US.
We watch for things being shipped through second countries as an attempt to "launder" it.

Making the parts for a rifle and assembling a working rifle in another country is "possibly" legal.