drawing line on target with handguns

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tightgroup tiger

tightgroup tiger

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I don't know where this really belongs as it affects my revolver, semi's and/or maybe my ammo.

About 3 months ago I bought a new GP100, 4", blued, revolver. I took a picture of it with the first target.
I run across this picture from time to time and noticed something familiar.

I have been shooting lines rather than small groups with multiple handguns and don't know what I doing wrong to cause this.
Other than my normal pulling one shot, I see this a lot in my shooting of handguns,
Does anyone know what I doing wrong, why I'm not shooting a small group instead of a line? In this target I did get three through one hole but I have a lot of other targets that I can see all six shots. As said above, I do this with semi-autos on occasion also but more so with this particular revolver.
attachment.php
 
I think I've seen targets at the range I use have this graphic on it.

I can see the position of the bullets having relevance to this chart but I was more wondering about why I get straight lines instead of normal groups.

I know it's not very important but I was just wondering.
 
When it happens repeatedly, it is something you are doing with your grip and or trigger pulling.
 
The only mechanical problem I can imagine that would cause a line pattern would be either the front sight or rear sight wiggling side to side between shots. Pretty easy to check that the sights aren't loose.

How is your vision? Any possibility that you are not getting a clear sight picture? I am plagued by a lot of floaters in my eyes...really aggravating.

What do your groups over a rest look like? Does the revolver shoot better for someone else? (not that those are bad groups)
 
tightgroup tiger said:
I have been shooting lines rather than small groups with multiple handguns and don't know what I doing wrong to cause this.
Click to expand...

Do you peek at the target between shots? You might be chasing your shots.
 
Do you dry-fire? It's the best way to become a better shot, and it's free.

I like to do an unusual dry-fire exercise that I think might help you here. Lay on the floor your back and aim at the ceiling directly above you. Let your shoulders relax against the floor so you're not holding any of the weight with your muscles. This will not be your usual shooting posture but that's OK - we are only going to pay attention to your hands. Think of it like shooting off a bench.

Aim at a small dot on the ceiling and watch your sights for a couple of seconds before, during, and after dropping the hammer. Chances are, if the gun is shifting around, it's because of your grip tightening, or your thumb pressing, or your trigger finger applying pressure to the side. You have all the time in the world to diagnose the issue and to practice, your arms won't get tired.

When you can dry-fire from this position without the gun moving around, you've properly trained the muscles in your hands. You can then transition to dry-fire from a more traditional stance, and solve any new problems that might crop up. Sometimes, moving your foot an inch to the left or leaning a bit more forward will make a world of difference. There is a natural, balanced posture that can be held steady with a minimum of muscular control, and your job is to find it. Once you get it, and get used to it, it will become easier and more consistent on the range.

If you struggle to get your hands to behave, try a different set of grips. The ability to change grip styles is a major advantage of a revolver over an pistol, and a gun that fits will always perform better.

Needless to say, don't aim at your ceiling if you live in an apartment with somebody above you; dry-fire targets must always be expendable. Snap caps are not a bad idea, but most modern center-fire revolvers can be dry-fired safely without them. It's also a good habit to not allow live ammo in the same room as your dry-fire practice. The most common error is a dry-fire session, followed by reloading the gun, followed by a little more dry-fire. If you have to walk in and out of the room between transitions it makes this error a lot less likely.
 
Thank you for all the replies, I follow your suggestions and see if I can quit doing this.

Mr. Borland, I do peek at the target between shots, it's a bad habit I picked up somewhere along the way.

I do still sight the bullseye between shots though.

Murf, that is something will start doing, I can relate to that, even if I pause between shots I will try to call my shot to myself and see if that helps.

Walkalong, I keep thinking about the targets you posted in my thread about BE-86 where you have all six through one large hole and I would like to once in my life shoot a group of six like that, not five with one three inches away, like is my normal M.O. But I picked up this nasty habit and I want to break it.

I will watch my finger position also.
 
One of two experiments

Just to see what happens, try this:

Set two targets downrange and use two guns, your GP100 and any other.

1) Fire one round at target 1 with the GP and set the gun down.

2) Pick up the other gun and shoot a while at target #2.

Repeat the cycle 5 more times.

Evaluate target #1.

Lost Sheep
 
Two of two experiments

Could it be the gun?

Set up six targets downrange A, B, C, D, E and F

Number your chambers, 1 through 6

With 36 rounds,

Fire from chamber 1 at target "A"
Fire from chamber 2 at target "B"
Fire from chamber 3 at target "C"
Fire from chamber 4 at target "D"
Fire from chamber 5 at target "E"
Fire from chamber 6 at target "F"

Rest a while. Let the gun cool, let your nervous system reset.

Repeat 5 more times.

Evaluate the targets.

If you have good groups, it probably is the gun.

If you have good groups that, on each target move in a line, it definitely is the gun. Possibly the locking hand or the cylinder (timing notches or chamber alignment/spacing, though these are highly unlikely).

By the way, when you single-action cock the revolver, does the locking hand drop into the notch slightly BEFORE the sear catches the hammer?

Thanks for asking our advice.

Lost Sheep
 
Walkalong, I keep thinking about the targets you posted in my thread about BE-86 where you have all six through one large hole
Click to expand...
Only on the good days. I can shoot an ugly group with the best of them. :)
 
Quote the OP:
"Does anyone know what I doing wrong, why I'm not shooting a small group instead of a line?"

Could be fatigue. I had the same problem decades ago, until I strengthened my shooting hand(s).
 
it could be anything my good man. the grouping isnt THAT bad. the placement isnt that bad. is it ppc quality? at 7 yards, it is. better then ive read some of the gunwriters doing for magazine reviews.
 
I actually made it to the range yesterday, I tried the suggestions here and shot normal groups. I tried the "calling each shot" suggestion and made myself shoot correctly. It helped a lot.
I shot normal groupings, but I had split 1/2 cord of white oak that morning with a splitting axe so I didn't expect to much as far as good groupings.

I did ok though, I had a couple 2" groups at 7 yds and several groups that all I could do is laugh about, but I didn't shoot any lines on my targets.

I will be very conscious from now on about all these suggestions you've made for me to try from now on.

thank you for taking this seriously.
 
glad you found a solution. may i suggest one more idea: aim small, hit small. a lot of times a shooter will subconsciously "aim" at the whole target, when they should be aiming at a specific spot on that target.

luck,

murf
 
Missing small would make me happy, Missing big, some days I really shine at that one!

That's again guys. I will take all your advise, reset, and start over. I think sometimes I get stuck in bad habits and boy can it be hard to get out of them.
 
I like to shoot a steel plate at the 40 yard berm and some days it is protected by an invisible force field, but then some days I can hit it most of the time even with my FN Model 1922 with it's tiny sights and stiff trigger. The days when I have trouble hitting it regularly with my 586 with a red dot, it's time to pack up, or get closer. Some days I can hit my 12X19 (?) silhouette steel plate at 100 yards pretty regular.

Bottom line is practice and focus. It is the focus I sometimes struggle with. I am just too impatient some days. Or maybe it is just ADHD kicking in or something. Never diagnosed that way, but back in my day it hadn't been invented yet. I tend to either be seriously focused, or not, with not a lot of in between.
 
Bottom line is practice and focus. It is the focus I sometimes struggle with. I am just too impatient some days.
Click to expand...
Walkalong,
I think us maintenance guys are impatience by nature anyways. I normally don't have a problem focusing until I notice two or three people behind me watching me shoot. That really irritates me.

I really envy those of you with private ranges.

Now patience!, that's always been a problem for me. I've been told by the range officers to slow down, that I shoot to fast. I know I do. At 7-10yds I only use 4" targets, when I start shooting outside the 4" circle with my 9mm Shield I start getting upset. Then I start shooting 1"-2" groups,... I'm probably focusing more when I get mad.
So that does go back to forcing myself to focus like you said.
It's good advise, but easier said than done for me sometimes, but I will try that next time I get to the range.

Thank you
 
IMO you are worrying way too much about groups with a gun that was not designed to be a target gun. That is a SD handgun and instead of standing there trying to shoot small groups you should be practicing drawing smoothly and shooting quickly, something that will serve you well in a SD situation. If you can fire 2 or 3 quick shots center mass the size of the groups won't matter. Stopping the attack is what matters.
 
That is a SD handgun and instead of standing there trying to shoot small groups you should be practicing drawing smoothly and shooting quickly, something that will serve you well in a SD situation. If you can fire 2 or 3 quick shots center mass the size of the groups won't matter. Stopping the attack is what matters.
Click to expand...

Working on basic marksmanship is never time poorly-spent, IMO, and 7-10 yard cloverleafs are easily within a 4" GP100s capability.

Nonetheless, shooting tight groups, and delivering quick hits each take lots of practice, but the proficient wheelgunner will be able to deliver both on demand, so both are worthy endeavors, IMO.
 
MrBorland said:
Working on basic marksmanship is never time poorly-spent, IMO, and 7-10 yard cloverleafs are easily within a 4" GP100s capability.

Nonetheless, shooting tight groups, and delivering quick hits each take lots of practice, but the proficient wheelgunner will be able to deliver both on demand, so both are worthy endeavors, IMO.
Click to expand...
I was not putting the OP down. I was trying to tell him not to worry about the small things and worry about shooting very small groups with a gun not made to do that. sometimes we all get hung up on a sidetrack instead of the middle of the road.
 
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