Drawing the line between Use and Abuse of a revolver

[Dr.Zubrato]

Wanted to know where you guys draw the line between hard use and abuse of your wheelguns.
Cosmetics do not apply, I'm talking timing, or parts replacement at faster intervals.

Most everyone knows about loading a revolver, slamming the cylinder.

Can closing it by the cylinder and not the crane cause timing issues?

Fast dry firing, or erratic fast firing?
If I jerk the trigger halfway I feel the cylinder spin, and lock into the notch while I prep the hammer. If I do it smoothly these operations occur simultaneously.

Having the cylinder spin after locking into a notch. Found this by accident when practicing one handed reloads. When I use close the cylinder using the side of my body I heard the cylinder click more than once from indexing a little too hard. Immediately didn't like it, so I avoid indexing after closing.
I see no damage to the notches or (word for the thing that locks them in place).
If this can cause damage to that part, can I buy this part as a drop in replacement or will it need to be fitted by gunsmith?

Turn rings, burn rings, cosmetic issues, scratches, etc do not concern me.

I have a 442, but I'm also interested in across-the-board revolver information from different mfg's and ways to safely and reliably use revolvers hard.

Thank you, I'd be grateful to know of any other revolver no-no's or things that moderately or severely limit their useful lifespan.

 

[jamesinalaska]

I reload for my various .357's. I look for visible signs of overpressure on the fired brass as a means of checking to see of the load is abusive to the gun, but one experienced shooter taught me to listen for the gun to "ring" also.

Some lighter guns, even when shooting within the recommended loadings, will begin to "ring" slightly (think of a tuning fork) when they are at either a harmonic or near a maximum loading. Those loads can be very hard on a revolver.

 

[Sport45]

Can closing it by the cylinder and not the crane cause timing issues?

Not that I've ever heard of. In fact, I've never closed a revolver by pushing on the crane.

For me, abusing would be firing higher pressure loads than the gun can safely handle. Bullets that are light for caliber can be hard on forcing cones too.

Not pulling the trigger all the way back each time can result in skipped chambers on some revolvers, but I don't think it's necessarily abusive. But "Bogarting" the cylinder closed is.

Dry firing is abusive to many rimfires. My Target Sealed 8 has an impressive amount of peening on the chambers.

 

[MrBorland]

Couple o' things in no order:

- Flicking the cylinder closed Hollywood style is exceedingly bad revolver form. I'm not sure how much damage it actually does to the crane, but it shows everyone you're a total revolver doofus.

- Actually slamming the cylinder closed is abusive. During fast reloads, though, what might look like slamming is actually fast, but controlled closing. Big difference. Closing by pushing on the cylinder isn't harmful - AFAIK, it's the proper way to close a cylinder.

- Reloads: Using a weak hand reload with push-to-release speedloaders (e.g. Safariland CompII/III) can seriously strain a S&W's yoke screw. The yoke screw is the only thing keeping a Smith's cylinder from falling off the front of the gun when they cylinder's open. Slamming rounds home into an unsupported cylinder can cause the screw to fail and the cylinder to end up on the ground. For this reason, I think the stronghand (aka FBI) reload is the one best used as your default reload.

- If your stroke is smooth, rapid DA shooting shouldn't peen the cylinder stop or the notches. If your stroke is herky jerky, all bets are off. You can buy a replacement cylinder stop from Brownell's, but it'll be oversized and in need of fitting by a gunsmith. Titanium cylinders seem more resistant to peened notches, but seem to be tougher on the stops.

- Opening the sideplate with the mainspring fully tensioned can put excessive tension on the hammer stud. Especially so if you actually cycle the action this way. Loosen the mainspring before popping the sideplate.

- Speaking of sideplates, there is a right and wrong way to do it, and the wrong way is abusive.

- Using the wrong screwdriver is abusive. Use the correct gunsmithing screwdriver for the job.

- I've never been a fan of the ol' "I'll clean out the .38spl carbon rings by just shooting .357mags". I'm not sure that it's actually effective, and that the carbon rings don't help to raise pressure. I just opt to regularly clean my chambers.

- I've also not been a fan of the ol' "I'll get the lead out of the barrel by shooting jacketed ammo". Again, it's not likely that effective, and if the barrel's appreciably leaded, logic tells the practice can't be good for the gun or barrel.

- Finally, on some guns, the fitting between the trigger nose and hammer sear makes it possible to jam the nose if you slowly and simultaneously release the trigger and lower the hammer "just so". This isn't a half-cock!! The gun wasn't designed for this, and it can be very damaging to the smooth engagement surfaces. To manually lower the hammer, fully release the trigger, get your finger off the trigger, then lower the hammer.

 

[earplug]

Overloaded reloads.
Rust and neglect.
slamming the cylinder in and out.
Screw drivers that don't fit.

 

[Drail]

Excellent advice from Mr. McB - who definitely knows about rotary guns.

 

[TimSr]

Most corrosion is caused by negligence, as in a failure to keep a gun clean and well oiled.

Mechanical abuse varies from gun to gun. What may cause problem in one gun may be perfectly safe in another. My definition for mechanical abuse would be any action that makes part wear out faster than normal wear and tear in a specific model. People rarely agree on what actions those would be.

 

[BSA1]

Can closing it by the cylinder and not the crane cause timing issues?

Placing your hand in front of loaded chambers is always a bad idea. If something was to cause one of the rounds to fire while you are closing the cylinder or handling the gun it will give you a very painful and permanent reminder.

Having the cylinder spin after locking into a notch. Found this by accident when practicing one handed reloads. When I use close the cylinder using the side of my body I heard the cylinder click more than once from indexing a little too hard. Immediately didn't like it, so I avoid indexing after closing

I don't understand what you are saying. If the cylinder rotates after locking into notch there is a mechanical issue that needs to be addressed. Could it be you are not getting the cylinder closed all the way when trying to close it by pushing against your body?

Fast dry firing, or erratic fast firing?

Older model N-Frame S&W revolvers bolt notches can develop peening over time when fired rapidly double action. The weight of the large cylinder stresses the bolt.

S&W addressed this issue when they redesigned their revolvers with their endurance package.

I remember a interview one time with a S&W Executive where the person doing the interview asked him what was the best way to smooth up the action of their revolvers. The Executive replied "Shoot it...a lot".

Handle a 30 year S&W revolver that has been shot a lot and most likely it will have a buttery smooth action.

 

[BCRider]

.....- Finally, on some guns, the fitting between the trigger nose and hammer sear makes it possible to jam the nose if you slowly and simultaneously release the trigger and lower the hammer "just so". This isn't a half-cock!! The gun wasn't designed for this, and it can be very damaging to the smooth engagement surfaces. To manually lower the hammer, fully release the trigger, get your finger off the trigger, then lower the hammer.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. I can't see how anything we'd do during manually lowering the hammer from fully cocked would be any different than pulling the trigger and letting the hammer fall normally. After all we can't get our finger off the trigger fast enough to release the trigger before the hammer falls fully when shooting.

Also when I do manually lower the hammer my practice is to tension against the spur to to point of feeling it move back a little. That way I know I've got control. If I do that and then pull and release the trigger the hammer will simply settle back on the trigger's nose.

Signed
Curious and confused

 

[Old Fuff]

- Flicking the cylinder closed Hollywood style is exceedingly bad revolver form. I'm not sure how much damage it actually does to the crane, but it shows everyone you're a total revolver doofus.

Absolutely bad news! Especially on pre-1970 Colt's and later Python's, Cobra's, Detective Special's, etc. as well as similar mid and small frame Smith & Wesson's.

What this does is spring (bend) the crane/yoke barrel, which is the hollow tube the cylinder revolves on. This in turn allows the chamber(s) to become misaligned with the bore, causing lead spitting and possibly a cracked barrel at the back.

 

[MrBorland]

I can't see how anything we'd do during manually lowering the hammer from fully cocked would be any different than pulling the trigger and letting the hammer fall normally. After all we can't get our finger off the trigger fast enough to release the trigger before the hammer falls fully when shooting.

Lowering the hammer while simultaneously letting the trigger go forward is where you might get into trouble on some guns. When lowering the hammer, do so with the trigger fully forward or fully back (with live ammo in the cylinder, the former's much safer).

 

[knfmn]

The big one as far as abuse of a revolver has always been flipping the cylinder closed. I see people doing that occasionally at the range and it makes me cringe every time. :/

As far as hot reloads are concerned, it honestly depends a little on the gun. I don't think it's a huge surprise that the loads in current reloading manuals are tamed down a *lot* from where they used to be. I don't sweat hitting max loads in any of my Rugers as long as there are no pressure signs. I try to limit the max loads in my S&W's as they seem to be a little more delicate (a very little) and they're also my babies.

 

[Red Cent]

What MrBorland said. You can actually balance the end of the sear on the trigger and the handgun will look to be in half cock.
A friend was at the shop and we were talking guns. I had a M10 and he fooled with it for a couple of seconds and showed me the hammer position. He said not to make a habit of it. I then picked up a M22 that is exceedingly slick. He was unable to perform the trick on the M22.
I follow the Colt SAA modus operandi.

 

[BCRider]

Lowering the hammer while simultaneously letting the trigger go forward is where you might get into trouble on some guns. When lowering the hammer, do so with the trigger fully forward or fully back (with live ammo in the cylinder, the former's much safer).

Ah, now that makes a lot more sense. And yeah, the way the actions work on a lot of them this could be an issue.

 

[Dr.Zubrato]

Wow, big thank you to everyone for sharing your knowledge. Especially not to close it by the crane in case I pull the trigger by accident or forget to move it. I know not to put my fingers anywhere near there but slipped my mind ever since I've been warned by someone never to close it by the cylinder.

Again thank you for bring all these things to my attention, and taking time to share your knowledge. I'll be in NY for business for a week or two so I won't reply but will soon be asking about how the competition guys reload one handed, left and right. I've found several ways to do it on my own and I'm works my out the most streamlined way but I'd like to see how the pros do it.
Honestly one handed revolver manipulation is very simple and easy, once you tuck the barrel in your jeans with the cylinder open!

 

[dfariswheel]

"Bogarting" the gun by slamming the cylinder open and shut with a flick of the wrist is very damaging, especially on pre-1950 revolvers.
The Colt's and S&W's of the pre-war era had softer metal in the cylinder cranes or yokes and they bent easier.
Even in modern guns it's stupid.

Other damaging practices are "Force cocking" the gun in single action.
That's jerking the hammer back with a snap.
That causes the cylinder to rotate much faster and with more force and that batters the cylinder locking notches and the cylinder locking bolt.

I once saw a man on the line force cocking a new S&W 686 with such force you could hear a "CLACK" all the way down the line.
When asked he stated that "They're made to take it".
I suspect he was showing off his gun handling skills to the "amateurs".
This was a gun less then a couple of week old and the cylinder locking notches were already so damaged the cylinder would need to have been replaced to repair it.

Another damaging practice is shooting the gun in double action by jerking the trigger as hard and fast as you can.
Again, this rotates the cylinder with great force and batters notches and locking bolts.
There is a way to shoot DA very fast without battering the gun and that's to learn how to "roll" the trigger.
This is a learned skill.
Jerry Miculek is as fast as it gets with a revolver, but he doesn't damage his guns.
That's because he knows how to pull the trigger fast without the battering.

"Shooting the lead out" by shooting jacketed ammo after lead is a good way to blow a ring or bulge in a barrel.
People do this for years until one day they shoot a few more rounds then usual or the bullet metal is slightly different, then they're shocked to find a bulge in the bore.

When a jacketed bullet passes down a leaded bore the bullet has to try to push most of the leading in front of it, similar to the bow wave of a boat.
If there's a little too much lead, the bullet can't push it fast enough and pressure soars.
Something has to give and this usually results in a bulge or ringed barrel.

Another hazard of shooting the lead out is that some of the lead IS over-ridden by the jacketed bullet and that irons the lead onto the bore in a thin layer of lead plating.
This thin layer can be almost impossible to see.
Moisture can infiltrate under the thin layer and the first sign of trouble is when a small piece of lead flakes off, exposing a rusted pit in the barrel.

Disassembly of a revolver with improper screwdrivers or improper ways of removing the side plate or cylinder ejector system is famous for damaging good guns.

Failure to do ANY maintenance will rust a revolver internally and externally.
You'd be shocked at the number of otherwise intelligent people who buy a revolver, shoot it, and toss it in a drawer or gun case with no maintenance.
Many of them see no issue with a little external rust or rust oozing out a trigger or hammer slot.

Cleaning guns with inappropriate cleaning tools, chemicals, or methods ruin many guns.
People spend over a thousand dollars on a fine revolver, obsess on the "most effective ammo", agonize over the finest holster or grips, talk incessantly on the internet about the "best lubricant", then put God knows what down that expensive barrel or cylinder because "It's cheap, and Billy Bob at the gun show said it was good stuff".

A favorite of mine, and a real money maker for me, was failure to get a gun repaired when it needed it, OR best of all, doing your own repairs when you have no idea how a revolver design actually works and how to diagnose problems and how to correct them.
Part of that one is "improving" the gun by altering parts by stoning or polishing.

 

[Old Fuff]

You forgot the much honored practice of sticking a pin-punch (any size will do) between the two levees of a Colt hand-ejector "V" mainspring, while cocking the hammer to "reform the spring" thereby easing the trigger pull.

This is particularly affective when done to a pre-World War Two Colt.

 

[BSA1]

When a jacketed bullet passes down a leaded bore the bullet has to try to push most of the leading in front of it, similar to the bow wave of a boat.
If there's a little too much lead, the bullet can't push it fast enough and pressure soars.
Something has to give and this usually results in a bulge or ringed barrel.

It is well known the an obstruction such as bullet or part of a bullet can cause ringing/bulging but I have never seen proof of the "bow wave".

Another hazard of shooting the lead out is that some of the lead IS over-ridden by the jacketed bullet and that irons the lead onto the bore in a thin layer of lead plating.
This thin layer can be almost impossible to see.
Moisture can infiltrate under the thin layer and the first sign of trouble is when a small piece of lead flakes off, exposing a rusted pit in the barrel.

I have never seen evidence of the ironing lead into the metal theory. I have seen rifles with several layers of fouling in the barrel which appears to be from jacketed bullets. My two worse offenders were a old Marlin 35 Remington and a 91/30. As for moisture getting under the thin layer causing rusting I think this applies equally to copper fouling.

 

[Dr.Zubrato]

I have never seen leading followed by a bulge or ironing out after firing a jacketed bullet after lead bullets, however I'm sure it varies with severity. If you have a few lines of lead or minimal to moderate you will most likely have no problem. The issue is when someone has a heavily leaded barrel where it looks like a sewer pipe and follow with full power fmj loads, I'm sure.
If all the reloader understands lead there should be no leading, even in a glock, contrary to rumors and myths.