Dry Shooting BP

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Foto Joe

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Jan 13, 2010
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Cody, WY
Since I started shooting BP, which from my join date you can see was not that long ago, I have been one of those "Crisco Shooters". Riding back from the range on the bike was sometimes difficult if I had been shooting upwind as my glasses were opaqued by BP soot and Crisco mixed together. But alas, the gunk always just washed away with soap and water and never a bit of fouling to scrub out of the barrel that a few strokes with a bore brush couldn't fix.

So.....After reading more than a couple of posts from TheRodDoc as well as starting to load cartridges with Black Powder, I gets to thinkin'.... These guns weren't really made in the 19th Century with the express purpose of going out to the local shooting range and eating up lead and powder just for fun. These guns were made for one reason, to protect the person carrying them from either bad guys or the government (sometimes the two are interchangable). Lube i.e. lard, tallow, beeswax etc. was largely to render the firearm water-resistant or to prevent corrosion.

Given that I rarely shoot during a rain storm then it stands to reason that blowing litterally pounds of Crisco down the barrel of a six-shooter might be over-kill when it comes to lubrication.

Sometimes I've been referred to as a slow learner, slow but I eventally get it. Most of the time.

So here's my little un-scientific experiment that I conducted last weekend.
I packed up my 2nd Model Dragoon and my 1862 Police and went up in the mountains purposefully leaving my trusty can of Crisco at home. I did take my small oiler filled with Ballistol as a security blanket of course. Here's what I discovered.

1862 Police (Uberti)
I fired 48 rounds through this little gem. Given that my fat fingers can't cap it with the cylinder in place nor will my snail cappers work on it, I have to pull the barrel and cylinder to cap it. After 48 rounds, she never bound up, cylinder arbor (pin) never stuck in the barrel and basically I saw NO difference other than I didn't have shortening splattered half way to the target and I could still see through my glasses well enough to navigate home.

2nd Model Dragoon (ASM)
As with the Police I fired a total of 48 rounds through this one as well but unlike the Police I use a snail capper on this one so the barrel and cylinder never had to come off during re-loading. After three cylinders I noticed a small drag on rotation when cocking. To solve the problem I put a couple of drops of Ballistol on the fore and aft end of the cylinder at the arbor, problem solved. This was necessary every couple of cylinders to keep things smooth. I probably could have shot four or five cylinders without problem but I don't want to put any more stress on the cylinder hand than I have to. Other than that, as with the Police, no difference.

Cleaning
Here's where I did see a little difference. Not in hard fouling but in the lack of mess by just shooting BP without lube. The only problem that I encountered was removing the barrel from the Dragoon. Powder fouling had made getting the arbor out of the barrel very difficult. In the future I will remove the barrel every three cylinders and wipe it down and re-apply Ballistol all the way back to the recoil shield. Since I had to pull the barrel and cylinder every time I capped the Police, this problem was limited only to the Dragoon. As far as fouling in the barrel, no difference period.

Footnote :uhoh:
The Dragoon is loaded with 45gr 3f Goex and apprx 8gr cornmeal filler. Police is loaded with 16gr 3f Goex and 8gr cornmeal filler. It is my belief and opinion that by using compressed cornmeal two things happen: a substantial "Gas-Check" is created since the cornmeal burns at a substantially slower rate than Black Powder, basically it's a wad that doesn't cost much. And... the course nature of cornmeal acts to shall we say "Scrub" the barrel on its high speed exit thereby keeping fouling to a minimum.

In closing I will state that I am a religious user of Ballistol during re-assembly of any gun. Nipple threads, cylnder arbor and when full dis-assembly is done the internal parts get treated. Also the chambers and bore get coated with Ballistol at each cleaning. Does the Ballistol help with keeping these guns functioning without shooting lubricant of some sort down the barrel in front of the ball every time you fire?? I think so.

I believe that my can of Crisco will now be donated back to my wife to bake cookies with. And while sitting in front of the TV one nite happily munching upon a homemade chocolate chip snack if I happen to feel a little crunch and get that slight taste of charcoal and sulfer, I'll know that my little can of shortening has been returned to its original purpose. :barf:
 
What I have found through the years of shooting them dry is that when a gun binds up quickly when shooting it dry is that no. 1, The cylinder is too loose on the arbor. Should be a slip fit and most the repos are far from it. Way to large of a gap. Most run from .003" to .007".

This lets the fouling enter the arbor area. Original cylinder center bores were hand lapped to a slip fit on arbor, and also the barrel, to fit at end of arbor.
I suppose that is one reason they can sell them so cheap. No hand work on fitting much.
Just keep everyone thinking they are supposed to be used with lots of grease is cheaper for them to make em.

A .0006" to .001" is proper. Any larger and the gun will bind quickly. the larger that free space the quicker it will bind up.

I have an old early S Marco walker (early 1970's) that I have only shot a couple times because it was a revolver with a Very Poor fit in all counts.
I just got it out and found it has .006" clearance on arbor. No wonder it starts to bind up on the first shot. Also the arbor surface that the cylinder sits on is longer then the cylinder. That directs fouling right into that large gap. I have cut that back flush with the end of the cylinder now and cut it in an upside down V shape. That stopped most of the fouling but it still will bind up in 18 or so shots.
Will need a thin sleeve put into the cylinder to fix right. Then hand lapped to fit arbor.

At a slip fit these old guns will shoot 60 or 70 shots with out cleaning it. Maybe more I haven't ever shot more then that at one time in a single gun.

The next problem with some aftermarket guns is the cylinder face has machine marks on it or some even have numbers stamped there. Or even the marks that some fellows leave when trying to remove the barrel with the ram.
My Walker looks like it was cast. There is very small pits in the face and the face isn't flat. It is slightly dished in towards the center. This too will direct more of the blast down to the arbor then out away from the arbor. It also had 3 equally spaced marks that look like something gripped it from the face end in manufacture. like a wood lathe would use. Maybe to roll the engraving?

These collect the fouling and make it stick to face.

If you polish the front of the cylinder flat till is shines like a mirror it won't let the fouling stick much at all. Also the forcing cone face. (keep them square with bores)

Then you will need to readjust the cylinder gap to barrel. Set to around .003". My 1851 works fine at .0018 which is what it had from colt. (second generation)

A .006" cyl. gap on a 44 cal. is like drilling a 1/8" hole just in front of the bullet in a in-line barrel. Big leak.

This brings up another problem with the repos. some use a tapered arbor to barrel fit. Uberty and S Marco for sure do.
This tapered arbor also makes it hard to remove the barrel. Straight arbors like Colts used and still do will let the barrel pull right off with no effort at all.
This taper makes adjusting the barrel gap hard without the proper reamer or lap.

With the straight arbor just push out the wedge with your thumb and remove barrel easily. Reverse to put barrel back on. Thumb pressure on wedge only.

With these proper fittings your gun will shoot like they did in the old days. Many, Many shots with out any sign of grease. All my guns but the Walker will shoot like that and I'm working on the walker. It will.
 
RodDoc..I know that what you're saying is true because a gunsmith told me basically the same sort of stuff when he was messing with my Walkers and '49's....(I still use a little Crisco or sometimes an over the powder wad from Cabela's)....
 
Rod-Doc. I agree with most everything you said. I was surprised that you mentioned that ASM used a tapered arbor. Must have been something they started in later production. The earlier ones up to around the mid to late eighties had a straight arbor like Colt and Pietta. I thought Uberti was the only one who used the taper system. By the way if you only need to set the B/C gap back a few thousandths you can use the arbor as a lap it's not hard to go back as much as .005 that way, of course you need to remember to take that much off the barrel lug also.
Not having the forward cylinder ring sticking out past the cylinder is a big help in not having fouling build up. I noticed Pietta started doing that with their 2010 production guns.
I think you might be a little narrow on your cylinder to arbor fit but hey if it works for you. I'm happy with .002 satisfied with .003 but if it had more than that I'd bore out the cylinder and make a bushing.
A big +1 on setting and removing the wedge with thumb pressure. On the 2010 production Pietta is actually getting this right
If anyone would like a chuckle go to Pietta's website and read their tutorial on removing a wedge. Hint, it relates to wedges set by Luigi the gorilla wedgesetter and not to those since they made their upgrades in late 2009.
 
My Walker is a 1973 ASM. I didn't realize it had a tapered arbor either till I started working on it. No wonder the barrel always comes off hard. It locks onto the taper.
 
A shallow taper will fit together very tightly and the tapered shaft will stick tight into the tapered hole. The less taper the tighter it will become, or wedge on. The same theory as a wedge. The less angle on the wedge the tighter it will hold. The steeper the angle the easier it will pull out.

Such as a Cam gear on a tapered shaft. A puller must be used to get it off after it has been pushed on the taper snugly.

A tie rod end on a car or a ball joint. both have shallow tapers. takes little to push them together but way more effort to pull them back apart.
Or a shaft in a piece of machinery with a taper for a gear to fit on the end.
 
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Ya know, everytime I read a post by someone who is insistent on smearing lube-goo over the top of the ball I roll my eyes :rolleyes: and think "why, why lord, why?". Not that it bothers me that people like to do that but what surprises me is the stubborness of some folks that just insist that ample amounts of goo must be on top of the ball. They'll insist that accuracy suffers if you don't or your revolver will bind up. In the end many of them end up with melted Crisco everywhere. No wonder some need checkered grips to keep their revolver from squirting outta their hands. :scrutiny:

It doesn't take much lube to keep a revolver from binding. In fact, the small amount of lube on a felt wad is plenty. Some of you may prefer to not use any lube and do the occasional wipe down and squirt of Ballistol. I prefer to use my home made felt wads impregnated with a Crisco/beeswax mix. This is plenty of lubrication. I haven't experience any binding issues therefore I forego the wipedown with Ballistol.

Use what works for ya. I'm gonna just keep rollin' my eyes :rolleyes: whenever I see a BP shooter covered in Crisco or who breaks out the cake decorating appliances to top off their load.
 
Rod-Doc. That's interesting I just sold a 1979 vintage ASM Walker and the arbor was dead straight. Makes you wonder what models and when ASM did what.
 
Hehhehheh....Bye. You just made my ignore list until the sun dosen't shine and the grass dosen't grow....
 

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