N555
Member
Well I have done at least 600 cases with it and it's still alive.
Good for lower volume. Trying to do high volume would be a curse.
Good for lower volume. Trying to do high volume would be a curse.
- Status
OP
OP
N555
Member
That's all it is. I have a bigger more efficient coil for cases. I bought it for doing mechanicing stuff and figured I would try it for doing brass. It worked good but I have an annealeez. But it's on loan for a while.
lordpaxman
Member
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2011
- Messages
- 2,443
Did you just hand hold that and time it? I know you can use Tempilaq to get the temperatures correct, I was wondering if anyone had ever tried an IR thermometer? Like these:
https://www.thermoworks.com/search.php?search_query=infrared sale
https://www.thermoworks.com/search.php?search_query=infrared sale
OP
OP
N555
Member
There is no correct temperature, it's temperature and time.
Virtually everyone using Tempilaq to anneal brass casings is doing it wrong.
The correct temperature is greater than 1,525F for more than 2 seconds.
I see a lot of people trying to use Tempilaq to get the temperature to something ridiculous like 750F too 900F, yeah that won't even start do anything.
Cheap IR pyrometers aren't going to help.
Their response time is too slow and they give the average temperature over a certain area.
Last edited:
OP
OP
N555
Member
A real professional one uses like 6,000 watts. This one is a toy. As long as you don't have a pacemaker, a candle is more dangerous.
jmorris
Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2005
- Messages
- 24,297
And don’t work very well on reflective surfaces.
OP
OP
N555
Member
Heat oxidized brass should provide enough emissivity to get a close enough reading. But you will only get a usable reading with something like a flir.
doubleh
Member
Popcorn time. Everyone and their dog has a different method.
OP
OP
N555
Member
Seems like there are or were a lot of people just heating the brass up enough to discolor it and not actually soften it.
If you don't care about accuracy, only brass life just heating up the brass enough to discolor it and knock 5 to 10 points of whatever the starting brinell hardness was, is better than nothing I guess.
But why only do it half arse?
If you don't care about accuracy, only brass life just heating up the brass enough to discolor it and knock 5 to 10 points of whatever the starting brinell hardness was, is better than nothing I guess.
But why only do it half arse?
Yankee1986
Contributing Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2022
- Messages
- 185
I have never annealed anything but the device used in the video, on a smaller scale, seems like it would be the ticket?
https://www.instagram.com/p/CpBnUhipBQk/?igshid=NDk5N2NlZjQ=
https://www.instagram.com/p/CpBnUhipBQk/?igshid=NDk5N2NlZjQ=
Do you have a Temp/Time/Effect chart you can provide (or point to) ?
OP
OP
N555
Member
What see a lot of, or used to see a lot of.
Here is a chart for 800F. See how nothing even starts to happen for several seconds.
And you don't want to try to hit the same point on that transition curve, anywhere from 10 to 50 seconds. At 8 seconds almost nothing has happened.
This is a chart a lot of people use. They see this chart and wrongly think "all I have to do is hit 800F for a few seconds and I'm good". Not knowing they are looking at what I believe is a 4hr chart. Given enough time, like a year or 2, that sharp drop eventually moves back to 400f mark.
Since we can only heat the brass for several seconds because heating the neck and shoulders for longer would eventually heat the whole case. Heating the whole case would significantly soften the case web and that would be catastrophic.
Here is a chart for 6 seconds, that's more realistic. 800F is 425c and see how almost nothing happens at 800F for 6 second?
Ignore the green line, only blue matters.
Me, if I can only hold a temperature for a few seconds I'm going for more like 800c or 1,500F.
Here is a chart for 800F. See how nothing even starts to happen for several seconds.
And you don't want to try to hit the same point on that transition curve, anywhere from 10 to 50 seconds. At 8 seconds almost nothing has happened.
This is a chart a lot of people use. They see this chart and wrongly think "all I have to do is hit 800F for a few seconds and I'm good". Not knowing they are looking at what I believe is a 4hr chart. Given enough time, like a year or 2, that sharp drop eventually moves back to 400f mark.
Since we can only heat the brass for several seconds because heating the neck and shoulders for longer would eventually heat the whole case. Heating the whole case would significantly soften the case web and that would be catastrophic.
Here is a chart for 6 seconds, that's more realistic. 800F is 425c and see how almost nothing happens at 800F for 6 second?
Ignore the green line, only blue matters.
Me, if I can only hold a temperature for a few seconds I'm going for more like 800c or 1,500F.
Last edited:
BIZERKO666
Member
Out of curiosity, doesn't Zinc have a melting temp of 787* F? at 1,525F the zinc would be cooked out of the brass no matter how long. IDK, Just asking.
OP
OP
N555
Member
No its a homogeneous alloy. Zinc oxide would be white powder.
Homogeneous alloys need to be chemically separated. Once metals are mixed together it's usually very difficult to unmix them.
Last edited:
OP
OP
N555
Member
Hunting ammo laded with my ruined brass has no problem doing 1 moa or less at 300yd. My worst load development ladder test was around 2moa at 300.
Yes I ruinsed it.
You can see how I over heated the body and probably the case head so much it didn't even burn off the sharpie where I marked my loading.
Yes I ruinsed it.
You can see how I over heated the body and probably the case head so much it didn't even burn off the sharpie where I marked my loading.
Last edited:
Green line shows grain size. Large grains will make brass more prone to fracture.
Assuming that graph is accurate, I wouldn't go over about 700C for six seconds. That would give some recrystalization without excessive grain size.
That color chart doesnt seem appropriate for brass since it melts at about 1700F.
Blue68f100
Member
You did not get enough heat to to the base damage the base. You are more than likely fully annealed on the necks. Use your sizing die and size then expand a couple of time to work some hardness back in and see if it helps. Your loads probably was setup with higher neck tension, so this will help put it back.
doubleh
Member
I see some good info in your post but the color chart for mild steel has absolutely nothing to do with brass.
The glow in metals occurs when the energy released by the heat excited metal atoms enters into the visible spectrum. It might not occur at the exact same temperature for all metals, but its going to be close until you near the melting points.
I think that when you can first see a dull glow in a relatively dark room occurs at about 900*F. I've found that annealing to that temperature works well for me. YMMV.
Last edited:
doubleh
Member
I am familiar with why metal glows when heated. Steel and brass are two entirely different critters. When steel is hot enough to braze it's color is a mild red and the brass, bronze alloy actually and much stronger than brass, is liquid.
As to annealing I know what works for me and will stick with it.
As to annealing I know what works for me and will stick with it.
OP
OP
N555
Member
Black body radiance doesn't care if its steel, brass, carbon brickets a tungsten light bulb filament or liquid metallic hydrogen. All the same. This is like 200 year old science.
If I'm wrong then please provide a color temperature color chart for brass.
OP
OP
N555
Member
Melting points are irrelevant.
Tell me how you anneal and I can tell you how you're doing it wrong and why.
OP
OP
N555
Member
Yeah I anneal them to just about dead soft then work the hardness back into them with precisely 1 cycle through the full length sizer die with ball type neck expander.
When I do that the necks are little softer than new factory brass but not by much, but they are consistent.
- Status
