Dumb question

[armoredman]

Since the 38 Spl was originally a black powder load, has anyone used a BP load in a modern 38 revolver? I know cleanup would be kinda nasty, but I was curious if anyone had played with this. I'll be getting the 10-5 out of the shop soon, and wonder if it might work for experimentation.

 

[Jim K]

"I know cleanup would be kinda nasty, but I was curious if anyone had played with this."

Yes, I have done it, and cleanup is definitely something for Mike Rowe.

Modern revolvers are much more closely fitted mechanisms, and much more sensitive to crud than the old revolvers were. Play if you want, but dunking your S&W in hot water is not recommended.

Jim

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

I have a friend who does BP loads out of his stainless .38. He says the cleanup isn't too bad. I've fired some of them and they are definately dirty and gum things up faster.

 

[AntiqueCollector]

I don't think it was the 38 special that was BP originally, but rather other 38 rounds, like 38 S&W, etc. I've seen many blackpowder only revolvers in 38 before, just not 38 special which came a little later.

 

[chieftain]

38 special was and is not a Black powder load.

Go figure.

Fred

 

[O.S.O.K.]

pb 38 special - sure

no problem - but I would recommend trying Hodgedon 777 - it burns clean and is less likely to gum the works up. Also use bp lube on the bullets.

A good, commonly available bullet to use would be hollow based wad cutters - especially the swaged kind like Speer or Hornady. These will seal better and give good accuracy.

 

[Sistema1927]

Plenty of folks loading BP in .38 Special for CAS. They are shooting it mainly out of 1873 replicas.

I would think that clean-up of your Model 10 is going to be extensive, and you probably won't shoot that many rounds until the cylinder binds up.

 

[oneshooter]

I shoot the Holy Black in most of my SAA cartridge arms. Cleanup is the same as C&B.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

 

[20nickels]

So would one use modern pistol primers? If so couldn't any modern round be made black powder regardless of case capacity?

 

[Gunfixr]

.38 Special is not nor was a blackpowder round. However, .38 S&W, .38 Colt, and .38 Long Colt were. While you can shoot BP loads out of your modern revolver, the tolerances (notably the barrel/cylinder gap) are tighter for use of jacketed bullets than the BP era revolvers, so you may have some problems with reliability. Cleanup is not difficult. Although more messy, BP fouling is actually easier to remove than smokeless. Make sure your bullets are lubed with a BP compatible lube, or you will have problems cleaning. While I'm not sure of Triple 7, as I've never used it, APP BP substitute powder is compatible with regular lubed bulets and is not corrosive, so if you miss any there won't be repercusions later. You might want to look into that.

 

[sundance44s]

I`ve had a 1970`s S&W lock up from shooting reloaded wad cutters (nasty powder)smokeless powder ..wouldn`t even think about B/P in it .

 

[Steve499]

I've done it, just because I could. I shot 50 rounds through my S&W model 14. Accuracy was good for the first cylinder full, then fell off to the point where it just wasn't worth the effort of aiming. The barrel fouling was responsible. If I could have kept that under control I would have maybe considered loading up some more of them with black powder. The bullets I used were from the only .358 mold I own. They were cast from pure lead and have only a single lube ring, which just didn't hold enough lube to keep the fouling down. The case capacity also isn't going to allow you to load anything to any 'hot' performance levels.

If I had a .357 mag, I'd try again. The longer case might allow room for a lube pill and card wad under the bullet. I haven't tried that in the .38 special case since I don't think there could be enough powder in there to make anything more than a heavy squib load. I'm only commenting on what I've heard, don't have any feelings about the practice one way or the other, but the cowboy action shooters who do load black in .38 special cases probably aren't concerned with power at all, just need enough of it to smack a steel plate, so maybe they are doing something like that to get accuracy from their reloads.

As far as cleaning it afterward, I didn't find that to be a problem, but then I kinda like to mess around with my guns so my opinion in that area may not be worth much.

Steve

 

[armoredman]

I see. Better to go get a cheap 1858 repro and play with BP where it belongs. Thanks for the replies, guys.

 

[Gunfixr]

Actually, the single lube groove is sufficient for just about any pistol barrel, as it will run out of lube at about 12-14 inches. It is the type of lube that is very important. Standard wax lubes and Alox will make a hard tar-like substance that is difficult to remove. You need a mostly water-based lube, not a petroleum-based one.

 

[Steve499]

I was using 50-50 beeswax/olive oil. It's a good bp lube, just wasn't enough of it, apparently. Maybe it's a good lube only in large quantities, huh?

Steve

 

[Jim Watson]

What made the .38 Special special was that it came out with a 158 grain bullet over 21 to 21.5 grains of black, which just HAD to be more special than the .38 Government/Long Colt with 150/18. It wasn't long before it went smokeless, one author says both loads came out together, one for the modernists, one for the traditionalists. But it was a BP cartridge for a while.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

From what I have read, the .38 special was a smokeless factory round made to be reloaded in BP. I remember seeing on the web old boxes of .38 special with writing that said they were reloadable in BP. Makes sense as the brass is much larger than needed to load cartridges with smokeless powder but the right size for loading BP and at the time BP was much more available at the time.l

 

[Jim K]

Of course black powder can be used in any cartridge, revolver, pistol or rifle. In some autoloaders, the pressure may not be enough to operate the gun, but it will fire. My point was that black powder cleanup is tedious and even though people do it and even seem to enjoy it, I can't see subjecting a modern gun to the crud of black powder and myself to the cleanup just for the fun of it. (I have read that some people in Spain beat themselves with whips in a religious frenzy; I don't do that either.)

The .38 Special was originally (early 1899) a black powder cartridge, loaded first with 18 and then with 20-21.5 grains of BP. The change to smokeless powder began in September 1899, but some companies produced BP loadings for a few more years.

Jim

 

[Old Fuff]

The .38 Special was originally (early 1899) a black powder cartridge, loaded first with 18 and then with 20-21.5 grains of BP. The change to smokeless powder began in September 1899, but some companies produced BP loadings for a few more years.

Absolutely correct. Not only was the .38 S&W Special introduced as a black powder cartridge, but until around 1910 the company advertised that one could also shoot the U.S. Service cartridge (.38 Long Colt) in the same revolver, and these were also loaded with balck powder.

On occasion I have fired black powder reloads in 19th century metallic cartridge revolvers without any problems, including cleaning. However clean the fired cases quickly or the powder residue will attack and damage the brass.

 

[Gewehr98]

I've done it just to try it out.

But the gun was a .44 Special S&W Model 696, a stainless L-Frame.

It got dirty quickly, but never fouled so badly as to bind the cylinder or lockwork.

I did, however, take the cylinder and crane out of the gun for a detailed cleaning.

The experience convinced me that I wanted a .44 Special SAA sometime down the road, to make use of all the ancient balloon head .44 Special brass I've hoarded over the years.

 

[Crimper-D]

One Question....... WHY BOTHER!

Sure, for pokes & giggles, you could make up a few BP handloads & shoot em' in a modern weapon. Cleanup could be done (attention to detail) - But aside from the novelty, I see no reason to do this at all

Just my Opinion, HUMBLE Opinions will cost MORE!

 

[20nickels]

WHY BOTHER, because it makes your gun that much more versatile.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

We have a black powder cartridge match which allows any gun,
old or new, as long as the cartridges are loaded with black
powder or a substitute like Pyrodex or Triple-Seven. (must
produce a large cloud of white smoke)

Some do make a point of shooting authentic BP era guns or
replicas, but my son shot his Ruger GP100, a model double
action revolver, with .38 Special loaded with Pyrodex P and
a 158gr lubed Semi Wadcutter bullet. I have shot my Webley
Mark IV, a BP era revolver. Since I have had the fun of cleaning
both guns, let me say that BP era guns are better designed to
handle the crud build up that comes from shooting black powder
(or even Triple-Seven) with lubed lead bullets. The forcing cone
area of the Webley and the front of the cylinder are designed
to handle BP residue. The GP100 (or any revolver designed in
the smokeless powder era) does not handle the build up of
BP residue as well as most original BP era revolvers do.

Shooting BP adds an element of suspense to a target match:
you don't know your results until the smoke clears.