Duplex vs BDC vs Turrets

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Montbars

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I know that I have started threads with all sorts of scope questions, but hilariously enough I still have not bought a new scope. Nonetheless I am trying to get a new one before hunting season starts, so here the question begins.
I have a regular 3-9x scope right now and it seems to work fine, yet it is a poor quality simmons scope. I want to get something with some nicer glass, and maybe some form of bullet drop compensation.
The scope will be 1-4x or 1-5x, because I like em small. Should I get the sightron big sky II straight up with a plex reticle and just hold over at long distances? or should I save up big and buy a nightforce nxs with the zero-stop turrets?
There seems to be no company that offers a BDC reticle good enough in a 1-4x so no hope there.
With a 100 yard zero, how far away can a normal guy be able to realistically hold the reticle above an object and hit it? I can hit a beer can nearly 100% of the time crouching at 100 yards, 200 yards I would say around 60-75%. I like the sound of the nightforce, but everyone seems to tell me that turrets will get bumped around too much and it will be more of a nuisance for 90% of my hunting instances. So what do you all think? turrets or no?
 
how far are you killing deer?

how about if you just went w/ good glass and a standard duplex reticle, and just run a 250-300 yard zero? no holdover necessary until you get beyond 350 yards, and mid-range is low enough that you shouldn't be shooting over a deer's back.
 
I personally prefer mil dot myself. I did just get a Nikon Coyote Special in 4.5-14x40 with the BDC predator reticle and I have to say it will take me a bit of getting used to. Looks about half silly but with practice it may work really well. But where I'll be going for yotes I commonly get 400+ yard shots and that will make it just a tad easier if I practice enough with it and learn the setup properly.

As far as the Target turrets, those are really nice on the range or if you are going to be doing some serious long range firing and not trapsing around in the woods. But if you dont think you will be going further than 200 yards I wouldn't go for them. It is mostly matching the tool to the job. If you will be hunting huge fields or across canyons then you need a long range rig and a hell of a lot of practice. But if you are limited to 200 to 250 (and thats getting out there) then a medium to short range rig is what you need (and still a lot of practice!) BDC, Mil Dot, and all these other scopes out there that SUPPOSIDLY automaticly compensate for bullet drop do not do it all for you. You still need to shoot at the variant ranges to see exactly where they impact at each reticle mark. They do simplify it a bit in the field but a good, say .308 round is only going to drop a couple of inches between a zeroed 100 out to 200 yards so you should be able to hold dead on high shoulder and still make a perfect kill shot.
 
What caliber are you going to be shooting? .308, .30-06, some form of magnum round? If you are going to be shooting a caliber with a pretty flat trajectory out to your maximum range, just zero for 200 and call it a day.

I bought a Nightforce NXS 2.5-10X not too long ago. It's not much bigger than their 1-4X model. It's NICE and it should be for the money. I didn't get the Zero Stops exactly for the reasons already stated. For a rig that is not going to be stationary, I think it could be a liability. The next Nightforce that I get will have them, but just for target and range use. You absolutely cannot go wrong with a Nightforce. You'd have to spend a lot more money to get much better. If I were to upgrade, it would be to a Hendsoldt and that's going to be more than twice as much money.

Don't pay too much attention to BDC. They are usually calibrated for a particular round at a particular velocity. They're pretty slim in the flexibility department. If you want some sort of ranging/bdc reticle, go for something with a ranging reticle. Nightforce has them calibrated in both MOA and milrads. Either way, just make sure that you get the turrets that have matching adjustments. MOA/MOA or mil/mil, not moa/mil or vice versa. Did I mention that I love my Nightforce? My only regret is that I got the Velocity reticle and should have gotten one based on what I said above for the stated reasons.

Since you want to stay small, I really can't steer you clear of that Sightron 1.25-5X. I had one. Very nice scope. I actually tried to "upgrade" from the Sightron to a Trijicon and wound up selling the Trijicon the week after I bought it. The Sightron had better glass. What was really nice is that the adjustments were really repeatable, so you can dial in if you need to. All you'll need is some way of judging distance by way of either a range finder or just knowing your terrain. Check out manventureoutpost.com That's where I got mine. I got it for just over $300, which was a good deal back then.
 
http://www.holsters.com/pfi/optics/RR-600-2.asp

A real dream if you reload. If you go here: http://www.rapidreticle.com/600-2lr.htm you'll see a small list of cartridges that will work well with it. I know it's a 3-9 but the glass is outstanding, the reticle works and the price is right.

The first link is to Safariland's holsters.com (they own the sight). They have distributor rights and the best prices for the scope which was developed by the guys in the second link. This is the same reticle that is licensed to Zeiss for their Conquest scope line (they call it a Rapid Z reticle). The problem with the Zeiss is that it is a second focal plane scope so the holdover doesn't mean a thing. They require you to input your ballistic info on their site and they tell you what to set your magnification at ie. 8.2x. Then you leave it alone, making it a fixed power scope.
 
I have a Burris Ballistic Plex, and it causes more harm than good for all-around deer hunting use. It works well, at the range, but in the field, it's a distraction. My eye doesn't naturally go to the center of the reticle. I shot right over a deer at close range last Fall.

The rifle I bought to supercede that one has a 2-7X Leupold VX-II with a regular Duplex reticle, sighted in at 200 yards (.30-06 165).
 
Some of us may have missed something. What rifle is this going on? Are we to assume it is just for use as a deer hunting rifle or does it have other uses?

All of the reticules you mentioned have advantages and disadvantages for certain uses. The normal Duplex is the simplest and cleanest. With practice, you can use it as a crude rangefinder if you know the dimensions on certain magnification levels. But the reticule is at it's best inside your cartridge/load's Point Blank Range, where holdover isn't necessary. It will be fast and accurate inside this range, without clutter or math.

The BDC reticules range in usefulness for high to not really at all. Done right, a BDC can get you on target fast to some pretty impressive distances. However, these almost always require the optic to be on a certain magnification level, usually at the upper end of the optic's magnification, and will require the optic to be calibrated with a certain load or trajectory. Within these limitations, a well designed BDC reticule rules the roost for most practical use, however, IMO. If you have a Trijicon ACOG-RCO on an AR-15, you might be surprised how fast and accurate you can be at some surprising ranges. That is one example of a BDC reticule done right. There is very little unnecessary clutter. Everything has a simple, intuitive purpose. You just put the stadia line that best matches the width of the target's shoulders on the target and fire. Your rangefinding and trajectory compensation is all accomplished at once and it can be very accurate. There is nothing better for a field rifle that is only going to see use with one primary round than a good BDC, IMO.

The various mil-dot and mil/MOA based hashed ranging systems also have their place. They offer the highest degree of precision and flexibility with range and load variations. You'll need to spend a decent amount of time in the field with it learning how to range with it, and dial in the proper "dope" for your load. Math will be required and it may take some practice before you're able to do this quickly and under pressure in the field (now imagine doing it while being shot at and you can understand why I think mil-dot is a poor choice for a SDM rifle). If you're going to be going back and forth between several loads or if you feel you actually need the increased precision at extended distances, it may be worth considering.

I have a Burris Ballistic Plex, and it causes more harm than good for all-around deer hunting use. It works well, at the range, but in the field, it's a distraction. My eye doesn't naturally go to the center of the reticle. I shot right over a deer at close range last Fall.

This would a more of an issue with lack of training or practice. Regardless of what you put on your rifle, you still need to spend enough time with it in the off season that you know how to use it in the field. This is true with any of the reticule options being considered by the OP, but definitely more true with the BDC and mil-dot reticules. It is true that BDC reticules can quickly become cluttered to those unaccustomed to them, but again, I saw very basically trained rifleman take a fixed 4x optic on a mass produced select-fire carbine shooting mass produced ball ammunition quickly and efficiently engage with precision pop-up targets from 200 to 600 yards. This is a level of precision not approachable by the standard Duplex reticule and a level of speed that the mil-dot systems can only dream of. But it takes training. You got to spend the time with it...

Same with the mil-dot systems, to an even bigger degree. It might be frustrating the first couple times you lay down behind a rifle and start trying to compute its range based on known dimensions and math formulas. I know it took a little while for me to get the hang of the NP-R2 reticule in the Nightforce my bro has on his AR-50. However, again, with practice it becomes faster and the level of precision you can achieve is much higher at extended ranges than the BDC. You're also not stuck with a certain load or trajectory. I will say that these reticules are best with higher magnification. A 1-4 style optic would be best with a good BDC IMO. To get the precision you want with the mil-dot reticules, I find it is nice, at least at extended distances, to have a decent amount of magnification. You don't have to have a space telescope on it. But the added detail provided by a upper end magnification between 8 and 10x, I think, would be worth it.
 
To the op, Pride Fowler does make a 1-4x illuminated scope calibrated for .308 Win, which might match your load. I was hesitant to mention it as it runs $774.00 but is still, in my opinion, an excellent value.

The beauty of all the PF scopes is that no matter the power, if you know your yardage, the holdover lines (which have yardage marked on them) will always be on. Range, use appropriate line, adjust power if needed, and shoot. Wind markers are also included. No dials, no dope, no math. Your B.C. and muzzle velocity.
 
To answer the OP's question, figure you can hold about 12" over your intended point of aim and still make a hit, on a target you don't know the exact size of. More than that and it becomes too hard to guess what 12" is on the target.

At the distances you refer to, 100 or 200 yards, just set a 50 yard zero and you'll be able to hit anything from 0-250 yards holding dead on.
 
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