EAA Witness question

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MAKster

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I am thinking of getting a polymer EAA Witness in 9mm. From what I’ve read Tanfoglio originally made the 9mm and 40 on a smaller frame and the 45acp and 10mm on a larger frame. A while back they started making all calibers on a universal large frame to simplify things and to allow conversions from say 9mm to 45acp. But to make things confusing they still sell the polymer 9mms with the small frame (P-S model, 999044) as well as the large frame (P-F model, 999104).

While the two versions seem to be almost the same the small frame models sell for $100-150 less than the large frame. Other than being able to do caliber conversions is there any reason to buy the large frame version if I only want 9mm. Does anyone know if the large frame models are actually stronger or made to a higher quality? It seems that the grip shape and magazines are the main difference. Should I buy the less expensive small frame version?
 
I have the small frame full size polymer witness in 9mm. I've had a it for a few years and so far so good. It's accurate and runs great. Unless you want to convert the gun to either 10mm or 45acp I would stick with the small frame. I also have a sar compact which I can swap the slides with the witness and they function fine.
 
Other than being able to do caliber conversions is there any reason to buy the large frame version if I only want 9mm. Does anyone know if the large frame models are actually stronger or made to a higher quality?
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Nope and nope. The sole reason for consolidating frame size was caliber conversions.

Nothing at all wrong with the small frame, and any CZ-75 magazine is compatible.
 
If you were planning to trick out the gun with replaced internal parts, some of the more commonly available aftermarket stuff is large frame only. That's the only thing I would add to the prior comments.
 
If I remember correctly, only the steel frame guns were of different sizes. The polymer frames rails were all the same size and would accept the whole spectrum of slide/barrel/mag caliber changes. I researched it extensively when I had a Witness Compact Poly .45acp.Great gun.
 
Before you buy a Witness, Google “EAA” and “customer service”.
You’ll find stuff like this:
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Before you tell someone not to buy a quality gun until they've read customer horror stories about dealing with the importer, consider that those exist for every manufacturer & importer. I could go on and on about Ruger and how they lost my business forever, but most people have not had that kind of problem with them.

EAA has definitely had their issues, and there was one CS guy in particular who was reputedly awful (was Paul, I think). But some of us have never had any problems in dealing with them. I've never needed warranty work on my Witnesses, but they have always been helpful in answering questions and helping me find accessories or parts.
 
I have needed warranty service from EAA. They took care of me. I would rate the experience a solid B. Happy to provide details if anyone is interested, but it was pretty standard. I know some others had a different experience.
 
I would bet most of the Witnesses would never need any warranty service. They are well made guns. Although, in general, I prefer the CZ's, I would not hesitate to buy a Witness. The ones I have shot have all been accurate, and reliable with excellent triggers out of the box.
 
I live about 20 minutes from the EAA plant and often make my rounds of local gun shops. Not one of them stocks EAA guns and when you ask them why, they say it’s because they’re sick of dealing with EAA’s customer service.
I used to be a big fan of Tanfoglio Witness pistols. I’ve owned 4 of them. For the money, there’s no better deal out there, as long as they keep working. EAA supports their high-end guns pretty well, but the standard Witnesses get much less attention. I’ve heard and read far too many examples of rude and dismissive behavior by Paul and one particular woman who answers the phone to even consider buying another gun with the EAA name on it.
I sold my 9mm, .38 Super and .45 full-size after I called and spoke to Paul about my .45 Compact. The gun was locking the slide back 2-3 times per magazine with rounds in the mag. With no previous mention of ammo by either of us, Paul told me the problem was my fault for shooting hot handloads. Then he hung up on me.
Stories like this are not unusual at all. Of course, this doesn’t happen to every customer every time. But it happens often enough that I won’t deal with them.
 
I have a 10MM EAA Witness, and I would recommend them to anyone.

They may not be "pretty" but they're reliable and affordable. Kind of a "working class" weapon.
 
EAS doesn't really have a "plant," at least as far as Tanfos are concerned. They're just the importer.

The characterization of them as working class guns is pretty interesting. Tanfoglio makes some pretty pricey competition guns, and outside the US (and the influence of EAA) they are regarded highly. EAA, however, has focused much more on the base models in an effort, I suspect, to target the large American tactical market. The low price point they've targeted probably doesn't leave them a ton of room for customer accommodation.
 
First, EAA isn’t “just the importer”. They service guns (when they feel like it) right there in the plant.
Second, the low price point isn’t an excuse to treat paying customers badly. They do that, IMNSHO, because they’ve hired inherently rude and unpleasant people to deal with the public.

In contrast, not far from the EAA plant is the Kel-Tec plant. If a local customer has a problem with one of Kel-Tec’s guns, he walks in the front door, signs in and a tech comes out to speak with him. The customer tells the tech what’s giving him trouble, the tech takes the gun and goes into the back. A short while later, the customer hears, “BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG”. The tech come out with the still-warm gun, explains what he’s done, gives the customer a written receipt detailing the work that was done and wishes him a good day. No charge. I’ve done this twice. It’s a very quick, easy and enjoyable experience.
EAA forces a local customer to ship his gun by FedEx Overnight, even though the customer lives a few minutes away. They return the gun the same way, charging the customer for shipping. It’s completely unnecessary, but EAA doesn’t give a rat’s ass. Years ago, I ordered a small, flat spring from them. The woman who took my order told me the spring would be shipped by FedEx. I asked her why she couldn’t just drop it in an envelope and slap a stamp on it. She said, “That’s not how we do it”, and hung up. Shipping cost 5 times what the spring cost.
 
In contrast, not far from the EAA plant is the Kel-Tec plant. If a local customer has a problem with one of Kel-Tec’s guns, he walks in the front door, signs in and a tech comes out to speak with him. The customer tells the tech what’s giving him trouble, the tech takes the gun and goes into the back. A short while later, the customer hears, “BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG”. The tech come out with the still-warm gun, explains what he’s done, gives the customer a written receipt detailing the work that was done and wishes him a good day. No charge. I’ve done this twice. It’s a very quick, easy and enjoyable experience.
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I think everyone knows that Kel-Tec's CS is second to none. I have several KT's, and they're definitely among my favorite manufacturers. But they have a pretty limited selection in the full size handgun department, none of which are a steel framed centerfire pistol like the TZ. The PMR-30 is awesome, but not a substitute for a full size 10mm. If you want a steel double action 10mm, your new production choices are the $ig, the very elusive Sar K-2 (also imported by EAA) and the Witness line.

The woman who took my order told me the spring would be shipped by FedEx. I asked her why she couldn’t just drop it in an envelope and slap a stamp on it. She said, “That’s not how we do it”, and hung up. Shipping cost 5 times what the spring cost.
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There are many companies that won't use USPS. Frustrating as that may be, there are reasons. For one, when USPS loses an uninsured package, they basically tell you to pound sand. UPS and Fed Ex have accountability.

You're also not limited to dealing with EAA for parts. Hennings is the most notable source for Witness bits, but Numrich and others have parts as well.
 
MachIVshooter,
All that may be true, but I wasn’t comparing the types of guns each company offers, I was comparing their CS.
Kel-Tec uses polite, helpful people in their customer relations. EAA uses rude, condescending, dismissive jackasses.
Kel-Tec’s procedures are set up to make customers feel appreciated, EAA’s are used to piss customers off.
EAA knows perfectly well that they have a bad CS reputation. Obviously, they don't care.
Tanfoglio knows EAA has a bad rep. They don't care, either.
 
A couple years ago I stopped by the EAA booth at an NRA convention and told the guy there a problem I was having with the sights on a steel Witness in .45. He had me write m address on his business card and a week later I had a new adjustable rear sight in my mailbox. LPA sight I believe, no charge.
 
I' have 1 Witness it's a 10mm compact with wonderfinish. Everyone on the internet warns not to buy this exact gun due to a problem with cracked slides and frames, but if I listened to those people I probably wouldn't own any guns. I've had it for 10 months and haven't had any problem yet.

As for EAA customer service I haven't had to deal with them yet so I don't know how good it is, but I doubt it's as good as Rugers. Those guys have the best customer service I've ever dealt with for any product. They'll send you a pre paid shipping label no questions asked and they will fix your gun if it's a day old or 10 years old even though it's not under warranty.
 
Everyone on the internet warns not to buy this exact gun due to a problem with cracked slides and frames, but if I listened to those people I probably wouldn't own any guns.
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If it has a rounded slide profile, cracking around the ejection port is a legitimate issue. They were produced this way for a short time, until the issue surfaced.

The frame cracking most often being cited is a tiny fracture that develops to the rear of the mag release, and does not affect integrity or function whatsoever. Tanfoglio's fix for the complaints was a relief cut there.
 
MachIV, as I've posted before, I actually had frame crack develop in a different spot, at the very base of the grip/magwell. I sent it in. EAA sent me a new gun. No quibbling about whether I had been shooting handloads or how I might have abused it. No free goodies and no free shipping back to the factory (though they paid to ship to an FFL). Could they have been nicer? Sure. Did they take care of me? Yes. That precisely mirrors my experience with Sig, FWIW.

I know others have had much worse experiences. I'm just saying mine was a "B" grade. Good enough so that when I was in the market for another gun a couple of years later, I had zero hesitation about picking up another Tanfo'.

I shoot competitions, so I run the guns pretty hard. They are, and I am not exaggerating in any way, every bit as reliable as the Glocks and Smiths and CZs and other guns around (and more reliable than almost every 1911 or 2011).
 
The reason why I am considering the Witness is because I want a polymer CZ-75 type pistol. The CZ-09 and CZ-07 are good guns but are signicantly different than CZ-75s. The Witness has visible CZ-75 features like the slide inside the frame and cocked and locked safety but how true to the original design is it really? Are internal things like the trigger mechanism and slide-barrel lock-up the same? If the Witness is really only sorta like the CZ-75 then I might reconsider getting the CZ-07. Thanks.
 
You know that with the CZ P-09 (and, I believe, the P-07), you can convert the decocker to a regular safety that permits cocked-and-locked carry, right? No aftermarket parts required, this is an intended feature. And, like the CZ-75, the slide rides inside the frame.

I'm a big fan of Tanfoglio's Elite series (the Match and up), but if I were looking for a serious polymer DA/SA gun, I'd probably go with a CZ. My brother has a P-09 and has it set up with a safety instead of a decocker. They're exceedingly accurate, although his trigger had a lot of creep out of the box.
 
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