Earlier today I had a discussion with Charter Arms.

[Captain O]

I suggested that they might want to consider tooling up for one of the most profitable self-loading rifles manufactured to date... The M1 .30 caliber Carbine.

I told them that Auto Ordnance and Inland were having difficulties with their quality control, and that a well-built copy would provide them with a decent profit margin. It would also provide the shooting public with a decent .30 Carbine and provide an incentive for the other manufacturers to improve their products.

If they were to build the M1 Carbine to better quality levels than those of Auto Ordnance and Inland, would you buy one?

 

[WardenWolf]

If I didn't already have an original that I inherited from my grandfather, I might. But let's be honest here: the M1 Carbine is a great gun, but the caliber is thoroughly obsolete by today's standards. For new production, it'd make a lot more sense to retain appearance, ergonomics, controls, etc., but chamber it for a more modern light rifle caliber. Think a Mini-14 but instead of being a scaled down M14 it's an M1 Carbine.

 

[Captain O]

If the cartridge is ostensibly "obsolete", then why is the demand for them still strong? I happen to know that there are three manufacturers (one that is semi-custom in nature, and charging upward of $1400.00 for a specimen). The cast receiver models from Inland and Auto Ordnance are commanding prices of $750.00 - $900.00 on the open market.

The .30 M1 Carbine reminds me of Jan Libourel's writings about the .25 Auto in Petersen's June of 1984's special magazine "Pocket Pistols" when he stated, "Nobody likes the .25 ACP... except people"! To this day, people seem to be clamoring for a good M1 Carbine as a short-to-medium range "varminter" and yes, a Whitetail Deer rifle that works out to fifty yards.

Many shooters still use it to good effect.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Yeah, kinda what WardenWolf said. The cartridge is still relevant and very useful for certain situations such as plinking and HD. That said, if they could offer it in one of the popular handgun cartridges such as 9x19mm, .45ACP, or .357 Magnum, I would think they'd have a profitable rifle that would market toward the PCC class of firearms.

It would fill a cool nitch that other PCCs simply cannot do.

 

[chicharrones]

That said, if they could offer it in one of the popular handgun cartridges such . . . or .357 Magnum . . .

If the M1 Carbines were made in .357 magnum at reasonable prices, I would have bought one years ago.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Trust me, Charter Arms is not the company you want making carbines if you're worried about quality control.

 

[ROAshooter]

"Trust me, Charter Arms is not the company you want making carbines if you're worried about quality control."

I agree....

but to answer the OP question....NO...have no interest in a CA M1 carbine....


all I have to say about that

 

[Robert]

What market studies are you basing your demand and decent profit margins on? Have you done the analysis?

 

[Captain O]

The steady demand for CMP, Inland and A/O carbines speak for themselves. There is more than one forum dedicated to the M1 Carbine.

Believe me, I have "done my homework". The demand is there. Green Mountain Barrels produces a steady stream of M1 Carbine barrels for both Auto Ordnance and Inland. Even with what were once considered "marginal" companies (Plainfield and Iver Johnson) sales for the M1 Carbine have remained steady. What does this tell you?

 

[Panzerschwein]

What did Charter Arms say in response to your comment?

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

No, the M1 carbine doesn't really have any practical use for me. I only own one for the collector aspect. It is a blast to shoot, but, for me, most of that fun is simply derived from the fact that I'm shooting a piece of history. No history behind a new manufacture carbine. I wouldn't buy anything but USGI in this case.

 

[Girodin]

I happen to know that there are three

Three manufactures? Compared to how many for rifles chambered in say 5.56? Compared to how many manufactures of ARs alone?

Outside of historical interest there's not much appeal of an M1 carbine would do for me. Better choices for just about everything else. I'm guessing there is not the demand you think or more companies would be looking to get that money.

I doubt it is something I would buy. If the quality and the price were right you never know but it would have to be a great value and even then I might have other priorities.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I Charter Arms could bring out a semi-auto .44 special M1 carbine and call it "the big dog" or something like that, I could see it selling.

 

[Captain O]

What did Charter Arms say in response to your comment?

I was informed that the subject would be presented at their next board meeting.

 

[Captain O]

Three manufactures? Compared to how many for rifles chambered in say 5.56? Compared to how many manufactures of ARs alone?

Outside of historical interest there's not much appeal of an M1 carbine would do for me. Better choices for just about everything else. I'm guessing there is not the demand you think or more companies would be looking to get that money.

I doubt it is something I would buy. If the quality and the price were right you never know but it would have to be a great value and even then I might have other priorities.

On the whole, the public tends to be a "military prostitute" (read: whatever the military is using is good enough for me) attitude. This isn't always such a great idea. The 5.56 x 45 mm is a poor choice for home defense. Shooting through walls (several times) isn't an attribute that I want to deal with.

Soft points in the .30 Carbine tends to curb this problem, but it isn't a substitute for "target awareness" (what is beyond your initial target). With soft point ammunition the .30 Carbine penetrates far less than the 5.56 x 45. Remember: the military isn't usually too concerned with what is behind their target. In fact, excessive penetration generally generates "collateral damage" when it strikes other "enemy combatants" behind the primary target.

 

[Jackal]

Trust me, Charter Arms is not the company you want making carbines if you're worried about quality control.

This. I'd count on a Taurus before a modern Charter. That moment you pick up a Charter revolver and see a canted/crooked front sight....

 

[shafter]

I don't see Charter Arms building one for less money than the other manufacturers, but if they could, I don't think it would be better quality. I saw two reproductions yesterday for $750. I'd love to own one but not at that price. If I did ever buy one it would be 30 carbine.

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

The 5.56 x 45 mm is a poor choice for home defense. Shooting through walls (several times) isn't an attribute that I want to deal with.

credibility = gone

 

[Captain O]

credibility = gone

How so?

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

On the whole, the public tends to be a "military prostitute" (read: whatever the military is using is good enough for me) attitude. This isn't always such a great idea. The 5.56 x 45 mm is a poor choice for home defense. Shooting through walls (several times) isn't an attribute that I want to deal with.

Soft points in the .30 Carbine tends to curb this problem, but it isn't a substitute for "target awareness" (what is beyond your initial target). With soft point ammunition the .30 Carbine penetrates far less than the 5.56 x 45. Remember: the military isn't usually too concerned with what is behind their target. In fact, excessive penetration generally generates "collateral damage" when it strikes other "enemy combatants" behind the primary target.

In defense of the 5.56/.223 ammunition its changed a lot in the past years and they have more than one sd round that actually penetrates walls less than a 9mm.

Still doesn't make me a huge fan of .223 for HD. I admit there is no good reasonable argument for me feeling that way. It may change in time.

With the right ammo the 30 carbine can be as effective for HD. I can see that. But i don't see it as a first choice over an AR, shotgun, pistol caliber carbine, or many other handguns commonly chosen. Its possible some one may justify buying one for that reason but only in addition to already wanting an m1 carbine to begin with.

As far as the M1 carbine demand it is in full swing. But I'm not sure i would like one built by Charter Arms. Am i wrong or do they only build revolvers? Not saying they can but moving from revolvers to semi-auto replica carbine production seems to me like a big undertaking and by the time they got going the market demand might fade. Companies have went belly up doing that kind of thing.

 

[Captain O]

Back in the late 1960's Charter Arms built their version of the Armalite AR7 Pistol in .22 lr. I owned one of their pistol versions and it shot quite well. (My ex-wife took off with it). They also make their version of the "floating rifle" AR7 (made from 1973-1990). This was the rifle you could disassemble and slide the receiver and barrel in the sealed butt stock. Remember those?

This isn't such a big leap for them. They could do this by taking the original specifications for the M1 Carbine and building them again. Modern CNC and laser cutting works wonders.

 

[Jackal]

I'd say skip the .30 carbine and jump straight to .357. Roughly same bulk ammo cost, more punch and secondary use in handguns. Or, just make what they should have all those years ago and build a .45ACP carbine.

 

[Captain O]

I'd say skip the .30 carbine and jump straight to .357. Roughly same bulk ammo cost, more punch and secondary use in handguns. Or, just make what they should have all those years ago and build a .45ACP carbine.

Rimmed cartridge in an self-loader. IMI, Coonan have done it. The magazines would be a pain in the arse to make and maintain. I guess it could be done, but a rimless version (.357 Auto Mag) would be the way to do it. It would still recoil far more than the .30 Carbine. and they would have to contract soemone to load the .357 Auto Mag again. (I happen to know that the AMT .44 Auto Mag is returning to production).

 

[ROAshooter]

"Believe me, I have "done my homework". The demand is there. Green Mountain Barrels produces a steady stream of M1 Carbine barrels "

So I did a little homework...went to the Green Mountain Barrel site....and did not find.....did NOT find.... a single reference to the manufacture of M1 carbine barrels.

 

[Captain O]

Check the M1 Carbine forum.